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Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Pre-Release Thread

ThoseDeafMutes

Learned
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Jul 11, 2016
Messages
239
Replaying it now, still seems fun to me. The Detroit hub feels tiny, China is much better though.

The thing that ruined HR for me was that the game world felt fabricated with a forced directive in mind. It oozed with "Here, look at this! No, go there!" bullshit. The game world of the original DX felt more indifferent to the player. You entered a map and started messing around without any handholding, but this indifference is key to immersion. It#s not like the real world gives a shit about your actions, either.

MD so far just looks like a prettier HR with an edgier Jensen.

Part of this is to compensate for the increased detail of the graphics. Playing HR without object highlighting for instance means you will miss a lot of stuff because items no longer stand out in the same way they did originally simply by existing in a much simpler, visually cleaner environment. Like there's room to improve and HR is a bit overly simplified in terms of every path you go down pretty much being guaranteed to pay off with an item reward and XP, but it's not awful.
 

Ash

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Oct 16, 2015
Messages
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That's only because they went for excessive static clutter and a repetitive visual style in the first place (design direction). Bethesda's games manage environments with vast interactivity and physics-enabled objects. Bethesdas games are more Immersive Sim than Immersive Sims are these days :roll:

HR is the way it is because design direction. Not so much consoles. Not so much modern engine technicalities, but the design direction of different minds, as well as the role of AAA corporate game dev business proceedings.
 
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Ash

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Messages
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Given that this thread has 81 pages a lot of people clearly do love HR, as well as love to hate it. It's good for what it is as a modern game, mediocre compared to the original and games of its ilk. The only worthy modern FP/RPG is Fallout: New Vegas.
 

Daedalos

Arcane
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Given that this thread has 81 pages a lot of people clearly do love HR, as well as love to hate it. It's good for what it is as a modern game, mediocre compared to the original and games of its ilk. The only worthy modern FP/RPG is Fallout: New Vegas.

But nobody should compare HR or MD to Deus Ex 1 and older games. I thought we stopped doing that, because games like that obviously dont get made anymore. (Along with the old cRPGs like fallout etc). So it's kind of a moot point, really. As a modern Stealth FPS with RPG elements, it is, in my opinion, better than most of what is out there right now, even witcher 3 and all that shit. (Which people absolutely loved).

Also, New Vegas is game far more comparable to an actual RPG in a 3D/FPS view (since it carries alot of the true cRPG tropes), Deus Ex isn't. It was never really a true RPG in that sense.

I'm not sure how people thought they were getting an actual Deus Ex game, identical to the first one, in 2016. Jaded expectations I guess.
 

Ash

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I'm not sure how people thought they were getting an actual Deus Ex game, identical to the first one, in 2016. Jaded expectations I guess.

Yes, that's really what people want :roll:

What you're witnessing is people with standards and expectations of intelligent and brave game design that engages them whining because that's not quite what they got, simply put. The year the game was made is irrelevant in that context. If a game is sub-optimal then disappointment is what one should expect.
 
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Daedalos

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I'm not sure how people thought they were getting an actual Deus Ex game, identical to the first one, in 2016. Jaded expectations I guess.

Yes, that's really what people want :roll:

What you're witnessing is people with standards and expectations of intelligent and brave game design that engages them whining because that's not quite what they got, simply put. The year the game was made is irrelevant in that context. If a game is sub-optimal then disappointment is what one should expect.

That was what I meant by identical, though. Sorry if that was not clear. I want a 2016 Deus Ex to have the good things that the first one had, too. But I think I've come to accept that it won't and I enjoy playing the newer installments, eventho they are lacking some of the truly excellent stuff.

If they developers and so on would really have wanted to make a deus ex game like the older ones, they would've. So that ship has pretty much sailed.
 

Ash

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Coma White said:
Bloodlines? Or is that not modern in the same sense?

How I measure it, modern = post/ongoing decline. old school = everything pre-decline. The year the decline was solidified was 2006/2007 in my book, though definitely had gradual, less noticable beginnings in 2000 with the release of the original xbox before that. So on that scale, this year is the tenth anniversary of decline.
 

ArchAngel

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This will release with denuvo, so those that are hoping to pirate before buying or just outright pirate it, are shit out of luck.

Or just wait a few years for the "director's cut" so they fix the bosses and buy the game at the same/lower price + DLC.
By that I will no longer care.

You won't miss a single thing not even playing this. If you want to play an actual Deus Ex game, all you can play is the original. And that is pretty much it.
I did play the original, twice. And I didn't play HR for combat or stealth, but for cool world and decent story.

For this same reason I want to try the new one. I have lost the need to shoot people in FPS games a long time ago. I also lost the need to play stealth games after 2nd Hitman game.

At this point I am only interested in RPG, story or strategy.
 

ThoseDeafMutes

Learned
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It's not like DXHR isn't a huge improvement in a lot of other areas anyway. When we think back fondly on DX1, we're not thinking about the unfathomably awful voice acting, bad graphics and all of the instances of bad or mediocre writing from tertiary NPCs, sometimes even the main ones. We're not thinking about UI. We're not even thinking about core mechanics most of the time either. It is not a good shooter, it is not a good stealth game. Hacking is... not even a thing you interact with. Multitool and lockpicking are the same way. The default keybinds feel like they were created by a random number generator. If it didn't have so many instances of surprising reactivity, player agency and great synthesis between the level design and RPG elements, I would go as far as to say that it would be a fucking awful game. It excels in a few key areas that most games never reach, but is a failure on a lot of basic levels.

HR's dialogue boss battles are a great idea that were executed "so so", and which hopefully continues getting fleshed out in this new one. Hacking is fun, if a bit simple, but in any case a world of improvement over the original game. HR does not nail the same things that DX1 did, but it still does a better job than most other games out there. It's like three quarters of the way there, and a heck of a lot better than I ever expected to get out of the AAA 200 person dev team era of video games.
 

Ash

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It's not like DXHR isn't a huge improvement in a lot of other areas anyway.

No perspective and no standards. The vast majority of what is actually an improvement made by HR over the original (that being NOT the nonsense you just listed) is related to the technologically superior engine, very little is of design.
 
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Tito Anic

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It's not like DXHR isn't a huge improvement in a lot of other areas anyway. When we think back fondly on DX1, we're not thinking about the unfathomably awful voice acting, bad graphics and all of the instances of bad or mediocre writing from tertiary NPCs, sometimes even the main ones. We're not thinking about UI. We're not even thinking about core mechanics most of the time either. It is not a good shooter, it is not a good stealth game. Hacking is... not even a thing you interact with.

:killit::flamesaw:
 

Carrion

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Lost in Necropolis
It is hilarious when I did play that once. The horrible memory limitations (of consoles at the time), so the levels were like shoe-box in size.

I *get* what they were trying to do, but the horrible limitations of current consoles (and that is when they had a prime directive to release on) just completely utterly ruined all games designed for it since. They could not go back, and have the freedom they once had on a PC game. And it really shows.
That's Invisible War. Human Revolution's maps aren't all that small, with a couple of sizable hubs to boot. On average the levels are not Deus Ex size, obviously, but they probably beat something like Bloodlines quite easily in terms of size. The bigger issue is how the maps are structured, often taking the form of enhanced corridors where you can choose to go through two or three different doors (or vents) instead of just one but where your progress is still quite tightly controlled at all times. Outdoor areas are used very sparingly, and apart from the hubs there's very little of that DX style level design where you enter some big compound with multiple buildings that you can enter, different floors that you can traverse back and forth, and so on.

If you want to play an actual Deus Ex game, all you can play is the original. And that is pretty much it.
I agree. You'd have to be completely out of your mind to play Human Revolution or Human Revolution 2: Mankind Divided expecting Deus Ex. On its own HR was not a bad game, though, having plenty of good things going for it and actually allowing you to ignore a lot of the modern bullshit if you wished to without feeling like you were handicapping yourself (if only you could lean and had a more advanced sound system for better first-person stealth instead of magic radars and shit like that...) With the sequel it's becoming all the more obvious that they're making a series of their own, going into a very different direction with their world and themes among other things, and generally I'm fine with that, as it's more interesting than just rehashing old ideas, and it also makes it easier to separate the new games from the one and only actual Deus Ex. The only good reason for them to be even using the Deus Ex name in the first place is that it forces them into at least trying to have non-linear level design, different ways to approach missions (even if it largely devolves into having boring "stealth routes" and "combat routes") and so on, which is almost extinct in non-open-world games nowadays. Aside from that it's better to treat it as a completely different series taking place in a completely different universe that just happens to have guys named Bob Page or Morgan Everett working for certain secret societies.
 

imweasel

Guest
I thought HR was generally liked and well recieved here on the kodex, I guess I was wrong. *shrug*
It is.

Despite all of its obvious faults (shoe box sized maps, dumbed down RPG mechanics, less rewarding exploration etc.) HR does many things well and is a fun and enjoyable game. Deus Ex is better than Human Revolution, but the latter is certainly a lot better than Invisible War.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
I gonna buy this thing and play for a weekend like I did with HR, have some fun and forget about it when Dishonored 2 is released. This will be a Good for what it is game, a very mediocre game like HR, nothing better than that but enjoyable enough to consume, shitposting on the codex and watch people doing mental gymnastics to defend their codexian KKK trying to not accept they enjoyed base common denominator popamole will bring me more fun than it, that I'm certain. Accept it people, you enjoy HR Popamole X, you will enjoy MD Popamole X too. Stop trying to bring DX 1 here to be pretentious claiming you are playing more than an AAA popamole game.
 

ThoseDeafMutes

Learned
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
239
When we think back fondly on DX1, we're not thinking about the unfathomably awful voice acting
:nocountryforshitposters:
bad graphics
:nocountryforshitposters:

We're not thinking about UI.
:nocountryforshitposters:

Imagine if we lived in a world where my post continued after two lines. Further imagine that since games are comprised of many aspects, it's possible to criticize some while praising others. Imagine if that as a story driven game, aspects of said game's presentation and the quality of the fully voice acted dialogue might be worth considering in such an evaluation of the game, since Daikatana tier VO and butt ugly early 3d are kind of harmful to immersion.

I know it's super cool to place literally zero value in anything but the extremely narrow scope of RPG mechanics and choice&consequence, but it's a game with bad presentation, bad controls, and bad gameplay. Combat isn't fun, stealth is subpar, and considering that combat, stealth and dialogue comprise probably over half the game that's kind of a problem.
 

AW8

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Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,852
Location
North of Poland
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
DX: The UI is great when scaled to modern screens, the graphics technology I have no opinion on (visuals are good), voice acting is hilariously bad.

IW: The UI is criminally bad, the visuals are awful (Halo-like sterile corridors everywhere, from Seattle to Cairo), voice acting is mediocre.

HR: The UI is good (especially for a console port), the visuals are all right, voice acting is decent.

My opinion is the only right one.
 

bddevil

Educated
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
71
Why is UI a part of the conversation at all ? It's literally less important than graphics, which are already not-so-important. Unless the game is all about real-time twitch clicking or efficient I/O input in general, why does UI matter ?

I mean, show a modern UI designer Arcanum's interface/menu/inventory screen, and he'll start crying. Show him SS1 UI and he'll probably hang himself. Whatever. The former is one of the best RPGs ever and the latter is a very good FPS.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,484
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/117587-deus-ex-mankind-divided-previews-4.html

GameSpot:

"We cut things out a lot as we go through the development process,” he said. “That choice-and-consequence aspect of the game, we knew we wanted to invest a lot into it. So all these little moments...are being reflected in the game, and there's some big moments where sometimes, it's a question of life or death for a character. Everything that leads to the ending of the game is much more organic, not ‘push one of your four buttons at the end.’

To help players experience all these possible paths, Mankind Divided will also offer a New Game Plus mode, which carries over all unlocked augmentations. Proulx said that someone rushing through the game and ignoring side missions would be able to finish the main story in 20 to 30 hours, although game time could "easily go past 30 hours." And as a treat for dedicated fans, completing Mankind Divided on Hard difficulty unlocks a mode titled, "I Never Asked For This." In this setting, players will only have one life to get through the game. Progress can be saved along the way, but if the player dies, that save gets deleted.

Stevivor:

Options. One of the features that I had heard most about Deus Ex was the ability to play through the game without killing another person; it appears that Mankind Divided is no different. As you approach your first mission you’re given the option of choosing either a lethal or non-lethal play style, with your weapons loadout adjusted accordingly. In my playthrough I decided to go with the latter.

As you progress through the first mission, you’re introduced to the various gameplay mechanics of stealth and hacking. It’s here that this idea of player choice starts to unravel. Missions will have mini-objectives that you can either choose to complete or not; deciding to do so not only nets you additional points for character upgrades, but also changes the dialogue between yourself and other characters.

PCPowerPlay:

Combat, for instance, is a much more viable option this time around, and Adam feels a whole lot snappier in terms of his movement between, around and over cover. For those who prefer to play with a controller, you’ll be glad to know that Eidos-Montréal has revamped the controls to fit in with what’s familiar and all-new for Mankind Divided. There’s an early prompt to switch to Human Revolution controls, to switch to Mankind Divided’s new control set, or two other presets. Getting the controls right was actually one of the key reasons that producer Olivier Proulx attributed to why the game was delayed.

The initial stages of the Dubai level are separated into mini tutorial rooms, that offer guided training, or the option to test out the new mechanics on your own. Despite the funnelling nature of this opening mission, Proulx mentioned that there are actually four choice-and-consequence moments that can come into play, which helps it feel more like a Deus Ex mission and less like an obvious tutorial.

GameCloud:

Where the Deus Ex series has been known to really shine, however, is through the plot. “Mankind Divided is the direct sequel to Human Revolution – so we’re set in 2029, two years after the big events that concluded that game. In Human Revolution, transhumanism is a big theme – a lot of people in the world have augmented limbs designed to improve their lives, improve their jobs, or just as a fashion accessory. At the end of the game, everything went wrong – people with augmentations were hacked from a distance, lost control of their bodies, and lots of people died. We decided to use this as a stepping stone for the themes and stories of Mankind Divided – for example, what happens when technology goes wrong? Politicians start to play with that. We have a world where people with augmentations are being viewed with suspicion, and people are scared of them. There is a lot of segregation and division in the world we’ve created.”

With the decision to continue the Human Revolution story arc, came the chance to continue developing the character of Adam Jensen; an opportunity that Eidos-Montreal relished. “Creating a fleshed out, iconic character is so difficult. With Human Revolution, it took a few years to really nail Adam Jensen in terms of who he is and how he looks. He went through so many different iterations, and honestly, the first ones were pretty rough… but we ended up with a character that has taken on a life of his own with the gaming audience” explains Proulx. “Aside from that, we’re bringing Adam Jensen back because he needs to get to the bottom of the conspiracy, and also solve the mystery surrounding himself. We also felt that we could add a bit more depth to Adam through the way he reacts to the events of the previous game. Ultimately we sought to make him a bit more assertive, less of an errand boy. In Mankind Divided, we’ve made it more so that he is in control of how he investigates- it’s his own agenda.”

Press Start:

Olivier also confirmed that if there was going to be another sequel, that the team has looked at ways to track the way you play Mankind Divided and that the events and decisions would carry over and effect the sequel, similar to Mass Effect. So it looks like Adam is here to stay!

It was also really impressive to see how many ways you can play Mankind Divided. I switched from stealth, to guns blazing and everything in between without feeling like I was being punished or missing out at all. The game rewards you no matter how you play, so it really comes down to personal preference. In the first level, I decided to play stealth to start with. I spent most of my time in cover, carefully tracking enemies and avoiding all combat besides the few times I decided to use my stun gun to knock out enemies who got a little too close. Halfway through the level, I decided to pick up one of the enemy’s machine guns and ran around shooting and lethally punching everyone in sight. I then dialed it back and played a little more comically and threw buckets and vending machines at the bad guys. All of these play styles were viable and progressed me through the levels. The maps are designed in such a way that it accommodates how you want to play. You can sneak through air vents, climb to higher vantage points or move from cover to cover at ground level. I’ve not played a game that feels as broad as this, let alone a game that is open to me completing a level by killing bad guys with a series of air-born buckets.

Rocket Chainsaw:

The shooting mechanics really have been tightened compared to Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and are no longer the weak point they were previously. Iron-sights and scopes quickly snap up and down when needed, abilities can be quickly utilised and cover mechanics are better than ever. It’s obvious that Eidos Montreal made improving the shooting mechanics a priority during the development of Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and it helps make the game a better experience overall.

Following Dubai, the game jumped forward to Prague as Adam Jensen’s train slowly rolls in to the city. Adam meets a fellow operative, and we get our first glimpse of the possible conspiracies in the game, before being witness to the Prague bombing that has been shown in previous trailers. After waking up in Adam’s apartment post-explosion, I then had the opportunity to really explore Deus Ex: Mankind Divided’s full potential and experience. First by clicking on absolutely everything in the apartment, including triggering a side-mission with David Sarif, then by wandering out of the apartment to see what Prague was like.

And Proxy Payload:

By making the player choose a certain path you are basically building up an entirely new game that the wielded character must progress. Deus Ex did this differently by blending all three endings together be it in the Invisible War and in Human Revolution.

Mankind Divided seems to ignore many previous player choices just to give Adam Jensen a clean slate in a sense and this bothers me greatly. The main reason is because Human Revolution provoked a very strong moral path for our protagonist. Adam in a sense was a walking opinion of the gamer when it came to their thoughts on augmentations and what lengths we would go to bettering ourselves.
 

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