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Demise: Ascension - is anyone else here playing it?

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
It's a mighty well made Dungeon Crawler. Lots of grind, but it feels rewarding since it's spiced with great exploration - huge dungeon (35 levels, 45x45 to 90x90 in size with lots of unique locations and 3 dimension - spells like magical flight are essential, and amphibious breathing for underwater exploration), item hunting (every item is unique, no "Flaming Sword of Striking +3" - and there are a LOT of items to choose from with strategic variety) and just seeing numbers go up.

Very well balanced - lots of classes and race combos, every one of them interesting and having a use. An "Explorer", for example, might sound exotic but is tremendously useful to have - although you can do away without one as well, of course. You can single-guild (e.g. take pure Warrior to sky-high level), or you can multi-class (recommended). You can play as 1, or up to a party of 4.

12 (!) years of balancing, ffs.

It's brutal as hell sometimes, you can run into mobs that can *permanently* drain your HP's for instance if you're not ready for them (you need to level up to regain HPs, but that's slow). Mobs that drain your ability stats (as early as say level 6 of the dungeon). Mobs that turn you into a statue a la Medusa (as early as 5). Mobs that behead. Mobs that *age* you (yes, you can die of old age - but that's very unlikely unless you're very stupid).

It has flaws, too, like rage-inducing "random quests", having to micro-manage your party to get similar shares of XP, and backward interface (e.g. having a bank with limited slots for storing items, at the same time as being able to create infinite mules) but they're compensated by the good things.

Some consider "real-time combat" to be a flaw (it's actually phase-based, like that same mode in Wiz8), but in my mind it's a tremendous advantage for this type of game. It's *fast* and if you wanna do something unusual (like cast a fire spell to kill a slime, or a mass destruction spell to get rid of a group of mobs), it's easy to do.


Overall I've spent ~300 or more hours on this game and I don't remember having that much fun with any RPG crawler game for a long while. And there is still a *lot* to do if I want to finish the game.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Since I can't edit that anymore I'll add some illustrations. This is what a typical level looks like (on a map). Note in NW corner there is a section that belongs to the Arcane Library that extends over several levels. The brown area in the E side is the Dwarven Mines, dangerous for a beginner but extremely rewarding in terms of XP per encounter once you can handle it. etc. Pretty much every level has several such features, and that's just the map of the 45x45 area - this level extends to 90x90 (this area is not shown here - this map is from the old Demise version).

Note the long hallways that connect this level on the left side of the map - a player can get from A to B very quickly, or keep exploring the rooms for monsters and chests.

level5.png


I'll add more stuff if people have interest/I have time.
 

Arpad

Educated
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
248
Could always add more impressions. I bought the game when it was cheap but haven't really had time to play it further than my initial run.
 

Overboard

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
719
I got it recently, and having played the fuck out of Mordor in ages past this game is also terribly grindy, yet strangely compelling.

Random quests are complete and utter BS, there should be an option to turn them off, as in Mordor. For those who don't know, you can only accrue enough XP to get to the next two levels -1XP before being 'pinned', i.e. not able to gain anymore XP until making a level in town. If you have a random quest for some absurdly rare item that is impossible to get because you don't want to spend hours farming levels trying to get a drop, you can only forfeit the quest when pinned, which means you lose your two potential levels as well as a few more levels you already gained, which is pretty fucked up when it takes a long time to level at higher levels.

The party system is tedious, you have to manually invite different characters into your party, but not that big a deal.

Inventory is fucked up, too few slots and to stack items you have to go to the shop in town, click on the first item, click on combine, click on the second item, click combine, then click combine again to get them to stack. Why not allow them to stack automatically instead of this retarded system?

That was the bad, but there's enough good in it for me to keep playing for an hour or so every couple of days, so give it a try. Build up characters, get better and better items, map the entire dungeon out, etc (some repetition from the OP, but it's the same game we're talking about after all).

Oh and whatever you do, DON'T TELEPORT INTO STONE! It is annoying as fuck to retrieve your character(s).
 

Xi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
6,101
Location
Twilight Zone
Great game! I just hated the pinning system. That's why I've ultimately decided to let it go. You can gain thousands of levels, but you have to return to town every 2 levels to undue the pinning system. It's a garbage mechanic and simply slows the game down, imho.
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
Developer
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
5,589
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
Project: Eternity
HOW THE FUCK do you change the game's language? Broken (and without our glorious źżćąę letters: x) potato is not what I like the most.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
I guess the intention of "pinning" system was for to force a player to plan his "expedition". It sort of imitates a player running out of stamina or whatever, and needing to rest.

TBH, pinning stops being an annoyance past the very early game when you pin near-instantly - and even then, it's really fast to get back to the city from the first few levels just by foot. A bit later on, you may either run out of resources before you even pin or get your inventory full with loot so you have to go back to the city. Places of highly concentrated XP (like Dwarf Mines) are easily accessible via teleport routes (Ethereal Helm is available as early as mid-30s to an Artisan). And even *later* on, you can travel instantly between city and the place you are exploring thanks to advanced spells like Open Mystic Portal, if you have 1+ people in your party.

In the end, you may just use greenies. They pop really often and you'll never run out, unless you really use them super often.

Pinning isn't a real problem until *much*, much later on either, like when you get stuck on level 35 (can't simply teleport out of there).
 

Outmind

Augur
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
211
In my infinite stupidity, i managed to teleport my flagship characters into solid rock. Now I'm leveling a paladin/mage monster magnet to get them out of there... but the tomes, OH THE TOMES!!! I need like 9 more to raise my stats to be able to un-rock them... Ah Ascension, she be a harsh mistress indeed.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Heh ;D

I once rocked my full party on level 21 (herp derp let's use Ethereal Portal instead of Displacement to get through solid rock!), and last manual backup was MANY game hours ago. The first meaningful throught that entered my mind was to start making an Artisan character to get ASAP access to the Ethereal Helm so I can jump-jump-jump and use Scroll of Summoning + Bells of Kwalish.

Got to 36, first jump to 10 from the porter on 2... ok, that was fine. Second jump to 14, right into the middle of some casters. Ran for my life, luckily next room had some weakly Pandruns so I survived. Next stop 18... I land right in the middle of a bunch of undeads who immediately drain my stats by up to 10+, drain my HPs, slowly, slowly molest me before finally giving me the final mercy. Lost like 30+ tomes/potions worth of stats for that effort. FUUUU.jpg

Next time I was a bit more patient, got to 60 or so, hired the strongest companions from the Zoo and *this* time I actually had the brain to port into the safe area of the Leprechaun labyrinth on 18. I had some big luck on 21 since again it was Pandruns and not some undead rape-squad. Finally, unrock!

Oh Demise, Demise...

:love:

Outmind IIRC the best place for Int/Wis tomes are lvl3 and 4, IIRC. Bells of Kwalish need some Con as well, but they are abundant on lvl2 I think.
 

Outmind

Augur
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
211
Yeah, i've been raiding lvl 3 since my character is 20ish paladin atm. Not that many tomes have popped up yet.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
It's usually Undead (skeletons, zombies, hiksae) and Humanoids (bandits, warriors, goblins etc.) that drop them, if that helps.

Unless your party is buried really deep, it might actually be much faster to make a character with stats just high enough to use Bells of Kwalish and Scrolls of Summoning, then dive straight there. (you don't have to be anywhere near the place they got rocked, you just need to be on the same level)
 

Outmind

Augur
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
211
I rocked them on lvl 1, near the library portal xD

I doubt I'll be making a new char, as the paladin will be my 3rd party member anyway, and it's good for her to get some meat on her bones.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Just make a throwaway character with high enough stats to unrock IMHO - would take no more than a minute, while saving you from the tedium of tome-hunting.
 

Outmind

Augur
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
211
I managed to get enough money/pots to get my paladin up to speed on the whole de-rocking issues. Now i have to find some more bells, as i spent about 4 of them on resurrecting just 1 character (the rez chance is only 10%!) Good thing he is much beefier than the paladin, being a warrior / healer and all, so i imagine I'll be able to speed things up.

BTW, do you happen to know if there is a Tengu lair somewhere on lvl 2? I know about the aboleth one, but i have seen only one tengu so far, and have literally 10+ tavern requests to kill/bring one back.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
By the way, you only need 1 bell to resurrect 1 character, no matter what the % :D

Just use a bell, then keep clicking A to join. Even at 10% chance, just keep clicking until it's successful.

Re: Tengu

They are *extremely* rare. You'll never ever have to hunt for one to complete the game, though - unless you've chosen Villain as your guild. :evil:
 

TheDeveloperDude

MagicScreen Games
Developer
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
389
Demise: The Revelation.
I found a potion of insight. I had it fully identified and my sorceror drank it but nothing happened. He had 13 wisdom and remained a dumb yeti as before. Any idea why?

Which is the better strategy, heal at the fountain for money or age my characters?
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
The potion needs to be of the same alignment as you to have effect.

Age is a non-factor unless you dive REALLY deep (like 28-29) before you are ready and get hit by multiple aging attacks. Blood of Ages (-10 years) are very frequent drops past ~24.
 

TheDeveloperDude

MagicScreen Games
Developer
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
389
The potion needs to be of the same alignment as you to have effect.

Age is a non-factor unless you dive REALLY deep (like 28-29) before you are ready and get hit by multiple aging attacks. Blood of Ages (-10 years) are very frequent drops past ~24.
Thanks! I have not seen the (n) after the name of item.
This game deadly, one wrong step and my party is dead ( I stepped into a teleport accidently).
Does the rescue party need the exact coordinates to recover the bodies? I do not know the coordinates because my party members were lost.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Just select your dead character from the main menu, start game and pick the rescue option. This costs money, and you lose all gold that char had on person as well as gaining some age.

Also dying is far, far from the worst things that can happen to you. ;)
 

madbringer

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
1,880
Location
the vast
So, what are the key differences between Revelation and Ascension? I know Ascension has 2 more levels and they both have their own tweaks and shit, but is it worth the thirty+ bucks to get it instead of staying on Revelation? I might get it anyway once the final version is out.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Ascension is kinda "final version" already. I've no idea about Demise offshots aka Revelation, though.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
So, what are the key differences between Revelation and Ascension? I know Ascension has 2 more levels and they both have their own tweaks and shit, but is it worth the thirty+ bucks to get it instead of staying on Revelation? I might get it anyway once the final version is out.

Ascension also quadrupled the existing levels, going 90x90 from 45x45. The expanded areas are kinda meh, though. Lots of wide open stretches do not look as good as neatly packed dungeons. Many map oversights, too. And it doesn't work with more recent nVidia drivers.

Getting it as a part of a bundle for $6 was a good deal, but 30+ is a bit too much methinks.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
Been playing this a bit today, just started. Running a party of ogre warrior and gnome sorcerer initially. Exploring/grinding dungeon level 1 and leveling up, had each character die once but the other was able to drag 'em back to town to revive. Still not ENTIRELY sure the point of pinning (Which I keep thinking of as pegging, I CAN'T HEAD BACK TO TOWN YET I GOTTA GET PEGGED ON THESE GOBLINS) but I'm trying to do it anyway. As far as I can tell when you get enough XP to pin you get instantly healed/full mana? But then you kinda wanna exit the dungeon by that point anyway since you're not accumulating XP, and you get healed when you level up anyway. So... I dunno.

Even dungeon level 1 is gloriously huge and I have to pull the map out occasionally when I want to head back to the exit. Trickiest thing at the moment is trying to keep both characters roughly the same level. Since XP isn't split among the party, the fighter's getting most of the XP since he typically attacks faster than the wizard, and the wizard can burn through his mana pretty quick even using his cheapest damaging spell. Getting a kick out of this so far.
 

Overboard

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
719
As far as I can tell when you get enough XP to pin you get instantly healed/full mana?

No, you do get recharged when you level though.

Trickiest thing at the moment is trying to keep both characters roughly the same level. Since XP isn't split among the party, the fighter's getting most of the XP since he typically attacks faster than the wizard, and the wizard can burn through his mana pretty quick even using his cheapest damaging spell. Getting a kick out of this so far.

Put the Sorc in the first position so he gets to attack first.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
Put the Sorc in the first position so he gets to attack first.
Thanks for the protip on that, didn't realize that was the case but I guess it makes sense, pretty sure he's got higher DEX than the warrior so it's not like it's likely based on initiative rolls or anything. Will that make enemies target him more, do you know? Having him in second position certainly doesn't prevent him from being attacked at least.
 

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