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Degenesis

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CptMace

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Found no thread about it or post-apo rpg in general, Sad!

Has someone found the time and courage to read through Primal Punk and Katharsis, well especially Primal Punk obviously, in order to GM Degenesis ? Can we get some feedback on it ?

Want to know if the game has solid substance or simply cool illustrations.
 
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Found no thread about it or post-apo rpg in general, Sad!

Has someone found the time and courage to read through Primal Punk and Katharsis, well especially Primal Punk obviously, in order to GM Degenesis ? Can we get some feedback on it ?

Want to know if the game has solid substance or simply cool illustrations.
I bought the deluxe edition when it first came out. I can't speak for the previous edition, but this one has a rather elegant game system. It's deadly too, so you don't want to start fights for the hell of it, but newly generated characters are competent at what they do.

The setting is awesome and it could be argued that it's the greatest hurdle for the players, but there's a lot of GM-eyes only stuff in the setting, and things that aren't common knowledge too. You'll have to brief the players on the cults and nations in general and the one they belong to in a more detailed manner, give them the rundown on the setting and come up with a reason each of them fits into the story (because of the cults, but if you have GMed Paranoia straight this should be easy for you). Not the easiest game to run setting-wise, but generally easier than Ars Magica or Eclipse Phase.

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk
 
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CptMace

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Thanks for the feedback sir.
Looks like they opted for a book-by-book strategy regarding the setting. Primal Punk gives a lot of info about the Justitian Protectorate but besides that, it's hard to fill the player in if you want the action to take place somewhere else than western Germany right now. Info about specific locations is rather scarce. First book focuses on Italy, I hope we have info about Syria soon, I'd really like to DM in a place with post-apoc NuRenaissance vibe.
 
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BTW, the second book came out a couple of months ago (I don't think they even sent an e-mail to their customers, but I tend to check their shop from time to time). It's set in southern Franka and has a revenge and intrigue type of adventure and it also explains more about the Pheromancers, the cities, and the way some cults work.
 

Morkar Left

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I had everything from the first edition. I really liked the setting, had a lot of potential. The rule system was rather weak but salvagable with some modifications. The new version seems to improve on the rule system a lot I heard. Not sure if the source books are still comparable or if the setting has changed much.
 
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MajorMace

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Degenesis isn't working very well, despite the outstanding quality of its writing, art and production.
I do believe a big reason for it is that people just don't know about it : so here I bump that thread for the sake of visibility.

You like post-apo settings ? Mysticism ? Actually deadly fauna and flora ? Check Degenesis out !
Kind of desperate at this point but, really, reading through Primal Punk felt rewarding. It's something to experience.
 
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Degenesis isn't working very well, despite the outstanding quality of its writing, art and production.
I do believe a big reason for it is that people just don't know about it : so here I bump that thread for the sake of visibility.

You like post-apo settings ? Mysticism ? Actually deadly fauna and flora ? Check Degenesis out !
Kind of desperate at this point but, really, reading through Primal Punk felt rewarding. It's something to experience.
What do you mean by not working very well? I hope they won't cancel the line, I am looking forward to the Justitian sourcebook. All of the books so far, and the metaplot, are top notch.
 
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MajorMace

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There's a Q&A from late 2018 (post Black Atlantic release) with Djurdjevic explaining that the future isn't so bright for sixmorevodkas regarding degenesis unfortunately.
 
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There's a Q&A from late 2018 (post Black Atlantic release) with Djurdjevic explaining that the future isn't so bright for sixmorevodkas regarding degenesis unfortunately.
Yes, I had read that one and IIRC they acknowledged that they had never broken even publishing Degenesis, but that it wasn't a factor for them as it mas more of a labour of love.
 

MartinK

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Once upon time, Kitch met Pretentiousness. Kitch got hard and Pretentiousness got wet and they made love on the spot. Nine moths later Degenesis was born. The system is shit, the cults are not really cults and are stupid. Dumb people like it because the book has relatively high production values which they mistake for being a good.
 
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Once upon time, Kitch met Pretentiousness. Kitch got hard and Pretentiousness got wet and they made love on the spot. Nine moths later Degenesis was born. The system is shit, the cults are not really cults and are stupid. Dumb people like it because the book has relatively high production values which they mistake for being a good.

There are such words as "pretentious" and "kitsch", but they don't mean what you think they mean.
 

MartinK

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It’s not post-apoc, too cool for that. It described itself as "primal punk" last time I checked despite not being about non-conformist cavemen.
 
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What's this about and what does it do that's different and/or better than the bazillion other post-apoc games out there?

Mechanically, it doesn't do a lot of things differently from other games. There's a primal urges vs. logic mechanic in there that has to be taken into account when doing character builds (I'm pretty sure that there are a few games that do something to this effect and I'm pretty sure I own a couple of those), but that's pretty much it. Is it the best system ever? No, but it has a good crunch-simplicity balance. WoD had a worse system (simple as hell in principle, until you had to keep a bunch of photocopied pages to remember what you could do with disciplines X and Y, and the buckets of D10s, and fights that took forever, and shitty critical failure mechanics that weren't addressed until 2E, and...) and I don't see anyone calling V:TM or W:TA shit, I had great fun with those games back in the day, but here we are.

In regards to the setting: the apocalypse occurred 400 years prior to the setting's current day, due to an impact event. The impact itself could have been prevented, as the United Nations had planned to nuke the asteroids, but a hidden hand (a corporation led by a megalomaniac) thwarted the plan, the nukes missed, and the meteors hit the planet, causing tidal waves and shifting the rotation axis (so Europe is further north than it should). The megalomaniac wanted to cause a societal collapse to start civilization anew in accordance to his own ideas, and the way he did it was by building a network of bunkers and placing brainwashed volunteers in cryostasis in those, waking them up in 100 year intervals so that the 100-years group would lay the groundwork for the 200-years group, and so on (there are 6 generations in total IIRC). What the megalomaniac guy failed to foresee is that the meteors carried alien life (in the form of some spores that taint the ground, infect humans and wildlife, and turn them monsters in service of an alien intelligence with an unknown agenda) and that a group of hackers would mess the order in which the bunker dwellers would wake up.

There are several groups about, mostly the cults. They are classified as such (even though most are not about religion) because they are the result of weaponized memetics by the megalomaniac guy (basically, the descendants of the bunker dwellers that woke up in the wrong order), and I guess the name may come from cargo cults, in that they have customs that are independent from their ethnic origin (also, some of the cults with a religious bent have more presence in some parts of the world than in others). There are:
-The Spitalians: basically medics, they are the ones fighting the spore infestations and researching the alien lifeform and its effects.
-Anabaptists: think Christian fundies, sans God, they eschew modern technology and fight the alien monsters using fire, the sword, and distilled oils from the alien fungi.
-Palers: they worship the sleepers in stasis in the bunkers and their computer systems as if they were gods, are pale and can't see very well in bright light.
-Apocalyptics: basically, hedonists and undistilled alien fungus peddlers (it's used as a narcotic in the game, even though too much use will irrevocably infect the user), they are reviled by most cults.
-Clanners: mostly descendants of whoever survived outside of the bunkers, they have a hodgepodge of ancient customs, tech level can be anywhere between stone age and space age.
-Chroniclers: the descendants of the hackers that messed with the sleepers' waking order, they maintain what's left of the Internet, their inner circle keeps tabs on the megalomaniac's plans, they also print a cryptocurrency that is the de facto currency of most of Europe.
-Hellvetics: swiss mercennaries with space-age tech, they keep to the borders of what used to be Switzerland unless there's money to be made.
-Judges: think Judge Dredd with early 18th century tech. They use hammers and muzzle-loading guns to bring frontier justice to the far reaches of central Europe, and they are based in the city of Justitian (ruins of Berlin IIRC).
-Scrappers: these are your plain old scavengers, with a rudimentary guild structure. They mostly sell their hauls to Chroniclers.
-Jehameddans: a hodge podge of Christianity, Islam and Judaism. They have a mythical prophet called Jehammed, but their actual leader is a guy called Aries who is one of the original henchmen of the megalomaniac guy, made pretty much immortal through nanotechnology (there are a bunch more of his kind still roaming the Earth); he uses nanites to heal himself and manipulate people, and keeps a praetorian guard that he sends all over the place, and get this: he remotes into their brains via a sophisticated helmet those guys have to wear, and he does all the dirty work himself by remote control.

There are also some cults from Africa, even though the main setting is western and central Europe (in fact, in the game the fate of the world beyond Europe between Spain and Poland, and Africa to the south of Niger is pretty much unknown):

-Neolybians: wealthy merchants, they are the Chroniclers' main competition (although they have very different agendas)
-Scourgers: the descendants of africans who were in the middle of a UN-backed European military intervention when the shit hit the fan. They managed to overpower the foreign troops, who could not expect reinforcements anymore. They still carry UN gear and have massive Surge Tanks (mobile fortresses).
-Anubians: occultists with a bent for the old Egyptian pantheon. They have rituals that somehow work (there is a certain element of magical realism to the setting).

There is also a metaplot that goes on along the game's multiple sourcebooks, and it's a pretty decent one. It's about one of the immortals I referenced in the Jehammedans summary feeling betrayed by the megalomaniac guy (who is in an orbital station having a few pints and waiting for all this mess to blow over, while he left his closest henchmen out to dry on Earth) and chasing the components of an artifact that can give him the altitude, azimurth and so on of the space station, and the components for either a railgun or a directed energy weapon to shoot the aforementioned station. The players can stumble into all of this mess if the GM wants to.

The production values are THE BEST of any RPGs out there, and these guys are doing it as a labour of love: they haven't reached the break-even in this project and they don't care if they never do (as they admitted in an interview); they are doing it because they can afford to (there was a first edition whose range of sourcebooks was never completed), and they are even releasing the PDFs for free in an attempt to garner more interest for the setting. The art direction is top notch.
 

MartinK

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-Apocalyptics: basically, hedonists and undistilled alien fungus peddlers (it's used as a narcotic in the game, even though too much use will irrevocably infect the user), they are reviled by most cults.

How come these people are still around. They woudl be wiped out in a generation by other cults and their own stupidity.

-Judges: think Judge Dredd with early 18th century tech. They use hammers and muzzle-loading guns to bring frontier justice to the far reaches of central Europe, and they are based in the city of Justitian (ruins of Berlin IIRC).

People just let some psycho with a gun interpret law for them instead of kicking their ass. How come?

-Scrappers: these are your plain old scavengers, with a rudimentary guild structure. They mostly sell their hauls to Chroniclers.

Just like Fallout 3! Seriously how is there still a scrap left to pick. These peopel should be archeologists not junk peddlers!

-Jehameddans: a hodge podge of Christianity, Islam and Judaism. They have a mythical prophet called Jehammed, but their actual leader is a guy called Aries who is one of the original henchmen of the megalomaniac guy, made pretty much immortal through nanotechnology (there are a bunch more of his kind still roaming the Earth); he uses nanites to heal himself and manipulate people, and keeps a praetorian guard that he sends all over the place, and get this: he remotes into their brains via a sophisticated helmet those guys have to wear, and he does all the dirty work himself by remote control.

A big dick immortal NPC ready to bully the players should they stray from GM’s railroad!

The production values are THE BEST of any RPGs out there, and these guys are doing it as a labour of love: they haven't reached the break-even in this project and they don't care if they never do (as they admitted in an interview); they are doing it because they can afford to (there was a first edition whose range of sourcebooks was never completed), and they are even releasing the PDFs for free in an attempt to garner more interest for the setting. The art direction is top notch.

This is actually sad. So much efford wasted because they fail to see the flaws of their beloved work, their blindness further reinforced by witless masses that salivate over the production values. I mean, there were pen and paoer RPGs with some great production values that were actually relatively profitable, if Degenesis was good it would be earning.
 
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-Apocalyptics: basically, hedonists and undistilled alien fungus peddlers (it's used as a narcotic in the game, even though too much use will irrevocably infect the user), they are reviled by most cults.

How come these people are still around. They woudl be wiped out in a generation by other cults and their own stupidity.

I take it you don't know jack shit about human nature. Geee, I wonder why gypsies are still around. I wonder why there are still drug dealers out there. Not everyone in the game belongs to a cult, unless it's one of the quasi-religious ones in their main areas of influence, and even in those there's a niche for vice.

-Judges: think Judge Dredd with early 18th century tech. They use hammers and muzzle-loading guns to bring frontier justice to the far reaches of central Europe, and they are based in the city of Justitian (ruins of Berlin IIRC).

People just let some psycho with a gun interpret law for them instead of kicking their ass. How come?

Have you lived under a stone all your life, or just in Albania?! What laws? Do you know the shitstorm that a dispute between tribes or villages can become when each of them has its own law, or whenever someone moves estate boundary markers or rustles cattle? These guys are providing a service and have brought stability to an entire region.

-Scrappers: these are your plain old scavengers, with a rudimentary guild structure. They mostly sell their hauls to Chroniclers.

Just like Fallout 3! Seriously how is there still a scrap left to pick. These peopel should be archeologists not junk peddlers!

There was shit buried all over the world for millennia, and until the 1930s there was pretty much looters about in those ruins. Hell, until the late 18th century noone gave a shit about the concept of archaeology. Why should people in a struggle for survival give a shit about preserving ancient artifacts in their proper context?

-Jehameddans: a hodge podge of Christianity, Islam and Judaism. They have a mythical prophet called Jehammed, but their actual leader is a guy called Aries who is one of the original henchmen of the megalomaniac guy, made pretty much immortal through nanotechnology (there are a bunch more of his kind still roaming the Earth); he uses nanites to heal himself and manipulate people, and keeps a praetorian guard that he sends all over the place, and get this: he remotes into their brains via a sophisticated helmet those guys have to wear, and he does all the dirty work himself by remote control.

A big dick immortal NPC ready to bully the players should they stray from GM’s railroad!

That is the GM's fault, as pretty much every game has a big bad. Also, that character appearing personally would be retarded (he is immortal in that he doesn't age, he is just hard to kill), he just remote controls one of his followers (who can be killed), and you would know if you had read the damn books, but it's easier to barge in here spouting retardese.

Are you retarded, son, or just plain ordinary thick?
 

MartinK

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Have you lived under a stone all your life, or just in Albania?! What laws? Do you know the shitstorm that a dispute between tribes or villages can become when each of them has its own law, or whenever someone moves estate boundary markers or rustles cattle? These guys are providing a service and have brought stability to an entire region.

Would YOU let some self-appointed third party decide a dispute of such importance? Only scenario where it could sometimes work is when both tribes and Judges have an official treaty that appoints Judges as arbiters in such cases.

There was shit buried all over the world for millennia, and until the 1930s there was pretty much looters about in those ruins. Hell, until the late 18th century noone gave a shit about the concept of archaeology. Why should people in a struggle for survival give a shit about preserving ancient artifacts in their proper context?

After 400 years every complex thing has decayed to the pojnt of only having two values: historical and its value as a raw material. Also afetr 400 years everyhting woudl have been picked except places that simply do not contain anything of value and places so dangerous nobody dared for 400 years. Not looking good for scrappers. But there is potential in scrappers. You could have a few remaining crazy traditionalists, clinging unto a lifestyle of their forefathers that is no longer sustainable, braving alien fungus infected hellscapes for copper wire.

Also, that character appearing personally would be retarded (he is immortal in that he doesn't age, he is just hard to kill), he just remote controls one of his followers (who can be killed), and you would know if you had read the damn books

You know it would be prefferable if he had the decency show in person. Then the playrs would have at least theoretical chance to hurt him. This guy is like Caine or Lady of Pain, except VtM never expected you to actually ever deal with Caine (outside official end of the world scenarios) and AD&D gave you easy to follow set of rules how not to anger Lady of Pain. This guy is absolutely untouchable and seems almost designed sto let GMs use him to keep players on the railroad. Not a good design, not at all.
 
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Have you lived under a stone all your life, or just in Albania?! What laws? Do you know the shitstorm that a dispute between tribes or villages can become when each of them has its own law, or whenever someone moves estate boundary markers or rustles cattle? These guys are providing a service and have brought stability to an entire region.

Would YOU let some self-appointed third party decide a dispute of such importance? Only scenario where it could sometimes work is when both tribes and Judges have an official treaty that appoints Judges as arbiters in such cases.
It doesn't matter if you want it or not, authority will come all the same, and when the shitheads on the next village over have been stealing your stuff, you will welcome it. How do you think feudal lords came to be feudal lords? In the end, those who do not want order will be outstripped by those who do, by sheer numbers and logistical efficiency.

There was shit buried all over the world for millennia, and until the 1930s there was pretty much looters about in those ruins. Hell, until the late 18th century noone gave a shit about the concept of archaeology. Why should people in a struggle for survival give a shit about preserving ancient artifacts in their proper context?

After 400 years every complex thing has decayed to the pojnt of only having two values: historical and its value as a raw material. Also afetr 400 years everyhting woudl have been picked except places that simply do not contain anything of value and places so dangerous nobody dared for 400 years. Not looking good for scrappers. But there is potential in scrappers. You could have a few remaining crazy traditionalists, clinging unto a lifestyle of their forefathers that is no longer sustainable, braving alien fungus infected hellscapes for copper wire.

After thousands of years today, there is still shit buried all over the place that noone has bothered with because it is not worth the effort. "Usefulness" is a function of return on investment. Also, the pre-apocalypse technology was far more advanced than current day's.

Also, that character appearing personally would be retarded (he is immortal in that he doesn't age, he is just hard to kill), he just remote controls one of his followers (who can be killed), and you would know if you had read the damn books

You know it would be prefferable if he had the decency show in person. Then the playrs would have at least theoretical chance to hurt him. This guy is like Caine or Lady of Pain, except VtM never expected you to actually ever deal with Caine (outside official end of the world scenarios) and AD&D gave you easy to follow set of rules how not to anger Lady of Pain. This guy is absolutely untouchable and seems almost designed sto let GMs use him to keep players on the railroad. Not a good design, not at all.

I'll say this for the last time and won't bother answering your nonsense next time. Even if it wasn't a metaplot character, which it is (and therefore, it's like the Gehenna official metaplot in V:TM, because it is a metaplot, and it was written by the game designers, so official, and in case you don't know what a metaplot is, look it up), complaining that he is high-powered is nonsensical. Noone ever complained of the Tarrasque or dragons being in the monsters manual, or about Elminster or Bayushi Shoju existing. This is not a fucking videogame, you know. You don't have to play the metaplot point by point. If your GM keeps pushing your shit in with his Mary Sues or with the Big Characters, maybe you should look for another GM, and since the GM doesn't have to get approval from the publisher to run his campaign, your complaints are nonsensical. If you are not aware of that, maybe you should stick to videogames.
 

MartinK

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It doesn't matter if you want it or not, authority will come all the same, and when the shitheads on the next village over have been stealing your stuff, you will welcome it. How do you think feudal lords came to be feudal lords? In the end, those who do not want order will be outstripped by those who do, by sheer numbers and logistical efficiency.

Feudal lord came to be feadual lords by not being little bitches who allowed some self appointed third party to decide their disputes. So in the case of tow villages having a dispute, there will be attempt to negotiate and if that fails a war. Now I can imagine some villages being both willing to accept third party autority to decide their disputes in order to avoid war, but guess what, those villages eventually ended up conquered by villages whose men had more testosterone.

After thousands of years today, there is still shit buried all over the place that noone has bothered with because it is not worth the effort. "Usefulness" is a function of return on investment. Also, the pre-apocalypse technology was far more advanced than current day's.

After 400 years it would be only good as scrap. And considering people had centuries to pick it up, why is it still there?

Noone ever complained of the Tarrasque or dragons being in the monsters manual, or about Elminster or Bayushi Shoju existing

Because you are expected to be strong enough to eventually kill them and Elminster is just an epic level wizard. With the right trick, you can disable Tarrasque permenently at level 4. IDK about the samurai guy, not familiar with 5 rings, but he does not seem like an unkillable nanotech god with dozens spare bodies.
 
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MajorMace

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We could save time if you just tell us where they touched you, to be frank.
 

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