Development Info David Gaider on settings culture & history

[Volourn]

 

[Mendoza]

"I thought that you were disappointed when you were "being all careful to answer the questions so I can be a Sentinel"

I was, and still am dissapointed in that. That still doesn't mean I don't understand why they did what they did. It's the same thing with a certain 'final boss" in FO1. Next.

Volourn? Volly? The bastard is digging his way out again. Why they did what? They could have easily pointed out that your answers suggest that a profession of [whatever] is more suitable, then letting you pick whatever you want and maybe even explain your choice. Not to mention that there is a quest (the dark jedi in the grove), and if you follow the guardian answers and attack her when she stops the fight, you will earn yourself some dark points and a negative reaction, although nobody said a word when you stated your intentions to deal with dark jedi in such a manner.

Eh? Is that not what they did? When I played KotOR, I got asked a bunch of questions which suggested what class I might like to choose, then the game gave me a choice of what I actually wanted to be. My answers to the questions didn't bind me to a certain class.

As for the grove quest, there isn't a guardian option and a consular option, there's a light option and a dark option. Starting a fight with Juhani after she stands down is evil. Just because you're a guardian, doesn't mean every response should end with *gets out lightsaber*.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Eh? Is that not what they did? When I played KotOR, I got asked a bunch of questions which suggested what class I might like to choose, then the game gave me a choice of what I actually wanted to be. My answers to the questions didn't bind me to a certain class.

Precisely. Your answers were pointless. My point exactly.

As for the grove quest, there isn't a guardian option and a consular option, there's a light option and a dark option. Starting a fight with Juhani after she stands down is evil. Just because you're a guardian, doesn't mean every response should end with *gets out lightsaber*.

Ok. Let's try that again. I posted that in another thread:
"The worst thing about Juhani was that you had a question during your Jedi training that went something like that: you are fighting a dark jedi, he pauses, what would you do? The guardian answer was keep fighting, which didn't get any "OMG! That leads to the DS" response. So, naturally, after being asked to deal with the dark Jedi, I go there, we fight, she stops to chat, and I, being a good guardian, ignore her DS trickery and kill her. Next thing I know, the council is upset at me. I just told you that that's how I would deal with dark Jedi, and that was perfectly ok. WTF? Oh, the dialogues are meaningless? I see. Cool."

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I don't know if Arcanum's graphics were inferior to those of Fallout. Fallout ran at an inferior color depth (16 bit), Arcanum, IIRC, at a superior one (32 bit). .

Fallout was 8bit color. 256 colors.

 

[Mendoza]

Eh? Is that not what they did? When I played KotOR, I got asked a bunch of questions which suggested what class I might like to choose, then the game gave me a choice of what I actually wanted to be. My answers to the questions didn't bind me to a certain class.

Precisely. Your answers were pointless. My point exactly.

Ah, gotcha, I misunderstood what you said. Personally I prefer the way KotOR does this, as it uses the questions to indicate what approach each type of Jedi would take to a situation, without forcing you into each of them. Guess it's down to personal taste though.

As for the grove quest, there isn't a guardian option and a consular option, there's a light option and a dark option. Starting a fight with Juhani after she stands down is evil. Just because you're a guardian, doesn't mean every response should end with *gets out lightsaber*.

Ok. Let's try that again. I posted that in another thread:
"The worst thing about Juhani was that you had a question during your Jedi training that went something like that: you are fighting a dark jedi, he pauses, what would you do? The guardian answer was keep fighting, which didn't get any "OMG! That leads to the DS" response. So, naturally, after being asked to deal with the dark Jedi, I go there, we fight, she stops to chat, and I, being a good guardian, ignore her DS trickery and kill her. Next thing I know, the council is upset at me. I just told you that that's how I would deal with dark Jedi, and that was perfectly ok. WTF? Oh, the dialogues are meaningless? I see. Cool."

Fair point. I'd see that as a flaw in the questions in the training, rather than the grove encounter, since any type of Jedi shouldn't be attacking opponents who stand down.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ah, gotcha, I misunderstood what you said. Personally I prefer the way KotOR does this, as it uses the questions to indicate what approach each type of Jedi would take to a situation, without forcing you into each of them. Guess it's down to personal taste though.

I don't want to be forced into anything too. What I meant is that it would have been nice for the council to say something other then "aha, just like I thought!". The way it was done, like you said, and like David said in that news quote, the questions were used to tell players something, but not to actually pick anything.

Fair point. I'd see that as a flaw in the questions in the training, rather than the grove encounter, since any type of Jedi shouldn't be attacking opponents who stand down.

Yep, my criticism is directed only at questions and the inconsistency, the quest itself was fine.

 

[Sol Invictus]

VD, why do you use the term woman as an insult?

 

[Volourn]

He fears the power that b00bies have over him.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I don't know if Arcanum's graphics were inferior to those of Fallout. Fallout ran at an inferior color depth (16 bit), Arcanum, IIRC, at a superior one (32 bit). .

Fallout was 8bit color. 256 colors.

Ok, I stand corrected. Its pretty low, still.

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD, why do you use the term woman as an insult?

I don't. I'm teasing Volourn who still haven't decided what gender to stick with. I would never insult Volourn, I love that stupid ass. You have to look at our whole history here.

He fears the power that b00bies have over him.

 

[Petey_the_Skid]

Here's my favorite VD snippets from the first three pages of you're newsposts in the archives, not including today's blatant fuck you's. Of course friends, perhaps these words are just "Taken wildly out of context" or "twisted to fit my own agenda", but here they are, by title of newspost, thjan a quote and then my comments. Enjoy

David Gaider on settings culture and history

"David looks at dialogues as an additional story-telling tool, not as an opportunity for a player to actually choose something"

Nowhere in the paragraphs you quoted dave gaider as qriting does he actually say that. Not a direct insult, but most definetely a twisting of the mans words and intentions.

Dungeon Seige 2 Q&A at Gamespot

"I guess weapon statistics are too complicated for some people to read."

A flippant backhand which strikes both at the developer and anyone who may possibly like the game and the series.

GameInformer's Oblivion info

"...kinda retarded when you think about it, but I'm sure that many of Bethesda;s non-reading customers have requested that feature to help them figure out what's happpening."

"The article mentions that Todd is crazy about choices and sees them "as a huge part of the next generation of gaming". Since you can now "become the head of every faction all during the course of one game", most choices would revolve around your appearance and itamz."

1. Another shot at the developers through the fans of the series.
2. A firm statement of your belief that Bethesda is incapable of creating much more than a "Dress my Dollie" simulation.

Bioware plans to make Great Rpgs by 2025

"You better start developing those Advance Choice Technologies(TM) today, Ray."

Not only is the title a direct attack on Bioware, you also single out Ray Muzkya specifically.

Todd Howard on Fallout 3

"Another developer thinks that Fallout was about drugs and hookers."

Gritty does not necessarily mean that a game is going to be riddled with whores.

Bard's Tale preview at IGN

"3 hours in and no main story in sight? OMG! They've cloned Morrowind!"

A small snipe at both Fargo and Bethseda.

BG3 info from PC gamer

"Looks like they have no clue what to do with the game other than make it visually stunning and epic. And,of course, evolve the genre. Poor genre. Hasn't it been evolved enough already?"

Basically, you're implying that Atari has no vision or competence in this here sentence.

 

[Whipporowill]

Atari? You mean they do? :shock:

 

[Sol Invictus]

Atari is an incompetent company. Proof: Driv3r.

 

[Whipporowill]

Proof: Matrix

 

[Volourn]

Proof: Hiring Troika for TOEE.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I don't. I'm teasing Volourn who still haven't decided what gender to stick with.

Uh, he's decided already. Its others who haven't made up their minds yet.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Proof: Dumbing down Kohan 2 for a more 'mainstream' audience and pissing off everyone who ever liked the original.

Further proof: Axis and Allies RTS - which is just a reskin of Kohan 2

 

[Dgaider]

I would just like to point out that I was not offended by the original posit on my thoughts regarding dialogue. True, I didn't think that particular quote supported VD's thoughts, but I can understand why he believes as he does and I think he stated well enough why that is. Certainly enough for me to come and disagree with him, which I think two people can do civilly and proceed from there.

I never felt like VD was attacking me or being unreasonable. He expressed an opinion, which he is entitled to, and while the quote may be a bit out of context I would not think that should make his comments afterwards suddenly void.

Whether this is indicative of behavior either way for VD is not something I can comment on, myself. I'm thinking, though, that if you are looking for behavior that cheapens RPG Codex's value as a legitimate source of critique, this thread is a prime example. Sure, I've been attacked here before, and the Bio-bashing has made me sigh and shake my head, but... wow. 'Venemous' is the only word that comes to mind after perusing this thread. :shock:

(And, incidentally, DA is going fine. :D )

 

[Vault Dweller]

A round of applause for David Gaider, a developer and a gentleman! David, I owe you one, and I really appreciate the last line :wink:

 

[Volourn]

Meh. Dave doesn't fit in here. He's too PC. I think he has to tell me to shut up again just so it looks like he fits in. :D

 

[Whipporowill]

You have to respect a developer that wades through this kind of crap and actually replies. How about locking this thing now? :wink:

 

[Vault Dweller]

Here's my favorite VD snippets from the first three pages of you're newsposts in the archives, not including today's blatant fuck you's. Of course friends, perhaps these words are just "Taken wildly out of context" or "twisted to fit my own agenda", but here they are, by title of newspost, thjan a quote and then my comments. Enjoy

OMG! I really AM an asshole. Perhaps, all those horrible, horrible things people said about me where true.... Anyway, let's take a look ...

"David looks at dialogues as an additional story-telling tool, not as an opportunity for a player to actually choose something"

Nowhere in the paragraphs you quoted dave gaider as qriting does he actually say that. Not a direct insult, but most definetely a twisting of the mans words and intentions.

Like I said many, many times, I've twisted nothing. There are many examples that support my conclusion. You know what conclusion means, don't you? It's when you add 2 plus 2 and get 4, without an official confirmation. I've mentioned a good example above, about choosing your Jedi class. Your multiple answers are not to pick something, but to tell you about the Jedi and their ways.

Dungeon Seige 2 Q&A at Gamespot

"I guess weapon statistics are too complicated for some people to read."

A flippant backhand which strikes both at the developer and anyone who may possibly like the game and the series.

A flippant backhand? Holy fuck! I didn't even know I can do those! Am I cool or what? Well, this flippant thing was is yet another striking conclusion, because if people didn't have a problem figuring out which weapon is better, there would be no need for such a feature. Also, I'd like to use this opportunity to raise an important point: anybody who liked the original game is a fucking moron. Now that's pretty much a fact. Uh, Petey, did you like the original game by any chance? No reason, just curious

GameInformer's Oblivion info

"...kinda retarded when you think about it, but I'm sure that many of Bethesda;s non-reading customers have requested that feature to help them figure out what's happpening."

"The article mentions that Todd is crazy about choices and sees them "as a huge part of the next generation of gaming". Since you can now "become the head of every faction all during the course of one game", most choices would revolve around your appearance and itamz."

1. Another shot at the developers through the fans of the series.
2. A firm statement of your belief that Bethesda is incapable of creating much more than a "Dress my Dollie" simulation.

Huh? What? I've never ever stated that Bethesda is incapable of doing something, but some developers choose to make crappy games for various reasons (wrong idea, circumstances, trying to nail that sweet mass market audience, etc). What Todd said about becoming a head of every faction during the course of one game is extremely retarded though, and it kinda demonstrates that Todd doesn't know what a good RPG design is, even if said design would bite him in his stupid ass. Of course, it's entirely possible that Todd is well aware of what a good design is, but his target audience want such a feature, and he simply follows the "client always right" principle. In the end, Todd's reasons are unimportant, but the fact that we may end up with a ... what did you call it?...a "dress my dolie" simulation is.

Bioware plans to make Great Rpgs by 2025

"You better start developing those Advance Choice Technologies(TM) today, Ray."

Not only is the title a direct attack on Bioware, you also single out Ray Muzkya specifically.

Why shouldn't I single him out? You did read the news article, didn't you? Ray said that in the future, in 20 years to be exact, you'd be able to take the role of a hero completely and start making them meaningful choices. Yeah, we need 20 years to do that.

Todd Howard on Fallout 3

"Another developer thinks that Fallout was about drugs and hookers."

Gritty does not necessarily mean that a game is going to be riddled with whores.

And the prize for being a blind motherfucker of the day goes to ....PPPPetey! Uh, Petey, did you notice by any chance that the exact quote was "gritty drug-and-prostitute-speckled irreverence"? No? You saw only gritty? It's ok. Go see an eye doctor or something.

Bard's Tale preview at IGN

"3 hours in and no main story in sight? OMG! They've cloned Morrowind!"

A small snipe at both Fargo and Bethseda.

Well, it's a small snipe. Let's not be petty here.

BG3 info from PC gamer

"Looks like they have no clue what to do with the game other than make it visually stunning and epic. And,of course, evolve the genre. Poor genre. Hasn't it been evolved enough already?"

Basically, you're implying that Atari has no vision or competence in this here sentence.

Well, let's see here, we have an article that shows that they don't have a single fucking clue. All that's known is that it's gotta have some obligatory cutting edge technology, be epic, and show fears in orc's eyes. Whatever.

 

[Petey_the_Skid]

I haven't had a chance to play Dungeon Seige yet, as I'm limited to a 300 MHZ pentium II powerhouse as my main gaming device, with limited access to a friend's X-Box and a home office PC( a whopping 800 MHZ there) which i managed to get ToEE working on. My apologies on the Todd Howard quote, I do wear glasses, guess I hadn't cleaned them recently while reading that one, I could have sworn it said gritty drug speckled irreverence. Perhaps the game will be riddled with whores. If I get bored again, I'll wade through the other 350+ articles you've written and find some other worthy gems.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

"Dungeon Seige 2 Q&A at Gamespot

"I guess weapon statistics are too complicated for some people to read."

A flippant backhand which strikes both at the developer and anyone who may possibly like the game and the series.

YET ODDLY ENOUGH MAKES A GOOD POINT. The GameSpot thing talked about Dungeon Siege 2 having a system in place to tell the player what weapon is better for them. Unless the weapons are incredibly dull in terms of complexity, there's no good way to tell which weapon is better for the player unless it's just plain obvious. If they follow the Diablo style weapons where a weapon can affect a number of the character's abilities, it's just damned hard for a generic algorhythm to say THIS IS THE BEST WEAPON.

It's just better to have the player do a little spreadsheeting than to offer a simple number score on how great the item is. Besides, if you want one score that does that, it's usually the price of the item in most games, right?

Bioware plans to make Great Rpgs by 2025

"You better start developing those Advance Choice Technologies(TM) today, Ray."

Not only is the title a direct attack on Bioware, you also single out Ray Muzkya specifically.

Yeah, because Dr. Ray never says anything dumb and BioWare people have never made statements about choices taking too long to impliment.

Bard's Tale preview at IGN

"3 hours in and no main story in sight? OMG! They've cloned Morrowind!"

A small snipe at both Fargo and Bethseda.

A point which is CORRECT, nonetheless. The first main quest in Morrowind was "Join a guild and level up a few times", after all.

BG3 info from PC gamer

"Looks like they have no clue what to do with the game other than make it visually stunning and epic. And,of course, evolve the genre. Poor genre. Hasn't it been evolved enough already?"

Basically, you're implying that Atari has no vision or competence in this here sentence.

Wake me when Atari shows vision or competence.

I would just like to point out that I was not offended by the original posit on my thoughts regarding dialogue. True, I didn't think that particular quote supported VD's thoughts, but I can understand why he believes as he does and I think he stated well enough why that is. Certainly enough for me to come and disagree with him, which I think two people can do civilly and proceed from there.

Exitium, Volourn, etc.: You guys just got SERVED.

 

[Volourn]

"You guys just got SERVED"

I hope it was pizza.

In, other words, you are an idiot.


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