KickStarter Darkest Dungeon Pre-Release Thread

[Ulminati]

We need a codexian LP for this game, with forum members as the characters. I would love to get slaughtered (or maybe contract paranoia or the runs) for the glory of Codexia (and loot).

Who is up for it, bros (& gals)?

I did a Codex Members stream during the backer beta. At the moment, the game doesn't have nearly enough horrible character death to make for an entertaining LP though.

 

[Gondolin]

We need a codexian LP for this game, with forum members as the characters. I would love to get slaughtered (or maybe contract paranoia or the runs) for the glory of Codexia (and loot).

Who is up for it, bros (& gals)?

MicoSelva's resolve is tested!

ABUSIVE!

"You fight like a popamoler!"

"Need a chest-high wall to hide behind?"

"Go back to Ferelden, moran!"

 

[pakoito]

"X reads a most unsettling passage"

Spoiler

Completely missed opportunty there to plug Twilight, 50sog or any other mummy porn.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

So, if in the end this isn't a rogue-like should the thread title be changed?

 

[Jaesun]

So, if in the end this isn't a rogue-like should the thread title be changed?

Define "rogue-like".

 

[Gozma]

They self-describe as roguelike... I am usually OK with going along with self-description/new wave roguelike stuff (FTL/Binding of Isaac/Spelunky don't bother me a bit) but man. Wait and see if they at least add a loss condition/add more significant proceduralism by release or something. Even on the most roguelikey point (character death) individual characters are so meaningless it's nothing.

 

[Jasede]

A nice term I read on some website was "Rogue-lite" for games like Binding of Isaac, Deepest Dungeon, Sunless Sea, etc.

 

[Jaesun]

They self-describe as roguelike... I am usually OK with going along with self-description/new wave roguelike stuff (FTL/Binding of Isaac/Spelunky don't bother me a bit) but man. Wait and see if they at least add a loss condition/add more significant proceduralism by release or something. Even on the most roguelikey point (character death) individual characters are so meaningless it's nothing.

Is there one game on earth you have actually enjoyed playing?

 

[Gozma]

^I liked FTL a lot, for a recent example that has a lot of close connections to this game. I don't deserve "this guy never says what he likes" hate bro

Conflating this with Binding of Isaac or Spelunky type stuff has almost no meaning. BoI/Spelunky have classic roguelike basics in everything but the fact that they're action games (I guess unlock stuff matters, but not in the course of a single game). DD is completely orthogonal and doesn't trip any of my roguelike sensibility. It's more like a heavily neutered X-Com.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

A nice term I read on some website was "Rogue-lite" for games like Binding of Isaac, Deepest Dungeon, Sunless Sea, etc.

Yup, I like this one since it tends to avoid unnecessary drama (BUT MUH BERLIN INTERPRETASHUN). Unfortunately it has the side effect of people applying it even more liberally, basically any game where it's possible to fail at all can be a roguelite if you squint hard enough.

Is there one game on earth you have actually enjoyed playing?

New forum tagline

 

[Gozma]

I mean I know it's a bad idea to try to play definition fite but I get a certain charge from roguelikes, and mission-based, very low proceduralism, a completely unloseable permanent strategic layer, etc. stuff just isn't getting near it.

 

[Jick Magger]

Yeah, I wouldn't call this game a roguelike. Losing party members can be damaging to your overall party effectiveness, especially if they're high-level, but they're easily replacable free of charge. Hell, if anything it's kinda recommended to dismiss members of the party who's mental afflictions make them too much of a liability and they're not worth the money it'd cost to have them removed by an asylum visit.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

So, if in the end this isn't a rogue-like should the thread title be changed?

Define "rogue-like".

Well perma-death=game over is synonymous with Rogue-like. I asked earlier about that and learned that that is not the case. Also procedurally generated. I believe I was told that the game has procedural instances but the game has a definite arc to follow? I don;t know I haven't played it but I remember being told all that and wondering how is this rogue-like?

 

[Gozma]

It has a fair amount of theoretical proceduralism (you have generated dungeons, characters start with four random active skills from seven possibilities, you accumulate random good and bad quirks as you do dungeons) but the game's design severely undercuts the value of it. Like for example, you can pay a fairly cheap price to unlock any of the three abilities a character didn't start with or easily remove negative quirks. The randomness of dungeons is also completely trivial and the experience of doing a type (e.g. doing a Ruins mission) is virtually identical every time. So the effect comes to not have a feel of proceduralism at all, despite there being some groundwork.

 

[Absalom]

The stress penalty seems to kick in after round 10, and so far it looks that it is not stun bound but affected by a random chance every round after the 10; I even got hit on it 2 times in a Row which turned my whole party bonkers
Yeah the game is damn good, slick and fun

it kicked in turn 4 to me, after using like 2 non-damage abilities. someone goes 'we shouldn't play with these creatures like this' and everyone gets a 10 stress hit

Lol what
If that stress penalty can kick in even in normal combat, then half of the jester's skills are worthless

 

[Ellef]

Aye, it would be good if new abilities were unlocked at specific levels instead of a nominal gold fee, so that Crusader A and B had something to differentiate them early on. Currently it's too easy to have everything you want and not have to adapt to anything.

A few changes i'd like to see in a roguelike mod or wherever else.

* Stage coach no longer upgrades. One hero per week. If you have less than four, you run with less than four.

* New abilities unlocked every level after 1.

* Random events in town (basically all bad) that require a decision.

* Weapon upgrades bought like trinkets. Probably too difficult with the blacksmith being central to the game.

Basically a bunch of shit that happens that you can adapt for to make the most of your meagre resources, so that you can't plan everything before you start your game. That's generally the roguelike formula I enjoy.

 

[sser]

I would be hesitant in looking to balance the 'strategic' aspect of the game. For all we know those last two dungeons are fucking massive resource-sinks that all this early stuff builds up to.

I do agree that there's a lot of balancing needed in the actual dungeon runs/battles, though.

 

[Ellef]

It's true, fix the combats lack of difficulty and balance and the rest of the concerns become secondary.

 

[Gozma]

They'd have to radically alter combat. I see people on their forums saying shit like, "Make the combat harder" but it's so shallow now making it harder would be like a casino lowering the natural blackjack payoff. It would make it harder to win, but not harder to make the correct decisions.

 

[Angthoron]

I dunno. Harder may be pointless, like you said, they've baselined for this so it won't radically change any longer. More varied, though, yes. Self-buff/self-heals for enemy groups so they function more like your own group, combat events depending on tileset/light/enemy/group... Changing the whole thing will be unpossible, but adding loads of little random details will distract attention from it massively, and is actually fairly low-cost.

 

[jcd]

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[Ulminati]

Thread has complains about the game not being balanced enough. Does that make it Roguey-like?

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

I think if all enemy's minimum damage was increased, that alone would go a long way to balancing combat. The sooner characters hit 100 stress the sooner the challenge changes in a meaningful way. If they added in another stress threshold at, for example, 200, the challenge could change/increase again - ability penalties. If the game is about stress management, they should push that. They could even, depending on the threshold, give characters negative quirks at a second level that take 2 weeks of treatment to remove, with 1 week of treatment reducing the level of the negative quirk. I dunno, I'm just throwing ideas out here...

Lowering critical hit %'s on characters' abilities and on items would help too - critical hits save the day too easily, especially if you let the torch gutter out.

 

[Gord]

If you make combat significantly more challenging, the amount of combat needs to be reduced, though.
It's fine if every single combat can (almost) fuck you up, but in that case it's impossible to complete even short runs with the current amount of encounters and set of items/skills.
And if combat is reduced, there needs to be something else in its place, something to fill the dungeons with.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

I generally agree with what you're saying, Gord, about reducing the amount of combat encounters if it's perfectly balanced, but combat at the moment is way too easy due to lack of tactical depth in combat, and will probably remain so despite minor tweaks/adjustments.

Increasing the challenge in a run gradually seems the best idea to me, besides, if a run is going badly we can still just pull the pin and head back to the hamlet to recoup.