From Software Dark Souls 3

[80Maxwell08]

Well I just beat Yhorn. I don't really know why they decided to bring the storm bringer back from DeS but hey it's amusing I guess. The jailers in irithyll dungeon are annoying as hell and basically require you to stun lock them but aren't really a threat if you have a weapon that can do so. Both the dungeon and chapel were just boring to me though. But hey I suffered through melee only in the valley of defilement so I doubt the series could ever be that bad again.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Profaned capital is probably the most bland area of DS3.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Yhorm is the worst boss in DS3 and one of the worst in the series. What a bland fucking fight. He's the epitome of DS3's gimmick oriented bosses problem. What a disappointment. Profaned Capital is also a boring fucking area.

 

[Silva]

The series is full of cut or unfinished content (Izalyth, that Yharnam bridge door, etc) but Prophaned capital is the most jarring. I wish we had access to some dev diary or something to understand what the original concept was.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Well I'm glad that was the low point in the game. It honestly wasn't too bad, just dull. When I get home today, I'm going back on my way to Aldrich.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I would accept what the area turned out to be if only Yhorm was a good boss. As it stands I wonder what the hell was going on when they thought this boss battle was a good idea. So we have this combo of boring area + awful boss that I think is one of the lowest points in the whole series.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Profaned Capital was way too short to be a real blight on the game. Catacombs of Whatchamacallit was much worse.

 

[Arnust]

Nah. The Ancient Wyvern is even worse in the exact same regard. That doesn't mean Yhorm and everything preceding him isn't an inmesze dissapointment, though. You don't get to have him crown the intro and then turn him into something less interesting than even the fucking Last Giant, with an added obnoxious reference. Wait, no, THREE references:
- The arena and him are pretty much just like the Old Hero but without the gimmick
- You fight along Sieg-something who fucking dies but you don't even realize until you read it on a wiki because 50% of the time you'll be teleported away and the other 50% he just goes away or takes long enough to die so you just leave him be
- Storm Ruler that doesn't even really look like Storm Ruler and is completely useless out of the fight, and doesn't even work against OTHER GIANTS LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO
- Sure as fuck I'm leaving something

 

[Jezal_k23]

Oh yeah. I had forgotten (or repressed the memory of) the Ancient Wyvern. I have no idea what happened to Fromsoft in DS3 that led them to design several horribly boring, gimmick oriented bosses. They had never done this before, as far as I can remember.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Oh yeah. I had forgotten (or repressed the memory of) the Ancient Wyvern. I have no idea what happened to Fromsoft in DS3 that led them to design several horribly boring, gimmick oriented bosses. They had never done this before, as far as I can remember.

And when they weren't, they were lightning quick combo spamming motherfuckers. Fighting Yorhm felt really refreshing until I realized I couldn't damage him.

 

[sullynathan]

They had never done this before, as far as I can remember.

Someone didn't play Demon's souls

 

[Jezal_k23]

No I did not, as I think you know.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Or Dark Souls for that matter.


I'm assuming the gimmick bosses were in response to the criticism of DS2's slew of samey knight bosses. Gimmick bosses go entirely against the design of the souls games though, which is about having varied characters and playstyles. Actual variety in bosses is a lot of work otoh, much easier to copy-paste a humanoid and scale the size up than to create unique skeletons like Sif or gaping dragon. There was a huge amount of unused design space though that wouldn't have required too much effort to implement. They could have done a boss fight in a dodgy arena like upper blight town or Sen's fortress, could have made something like a timed survival test, could have done one that took place in complete darkness, could have done some sort of escort boss fight... but they went with super lazy 'hit the weak point 3 times' fights and dozens of versions of fighting a big slow melee guy. Bosses in general were probably the biggest wasted potential across the whole series. Even when they did have a cool gimmick, which was fairly often, they tuned it down so much it didn't really matter.

 

[Silva]

Prophaned capital is not bad only due to boss and level design, it's also completely innocuous from a lore perspective too. Prophaned flame wut? Big walking hands that supposedly were maidens that sinned wut?

 

[Shadenuat]

Gimmicky bosses are fine if only there was some sort of narrative and quests happening around them. Hard to think of good example but that you had to first get Kalameet to the ground with a help of giant archer, that sort of design can be applied to actual combat as well.

 

[Strange Fellow]

could have done some sort of escort boss fight...

Agree with the rest of your post, but thank God they didn't do this.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I wasn't thinking so much a literal escort, but something like fighting alongside an NPC that you need to keep alive, whether by healing them, dps racing the boss, or interupting the boss's attacks or maybe even using yourself as a shield.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I wasn't thinking so much a literal escort, but something like fighting alongside an NPC that you need to keep alive, whether by healing them, dps racing the boss, or interupting the boss's attacks or maybe even using yourself as a shield.

I figured that's what you meant. It's been shit in every other game I've played that does it. Hell, there's no need to look that far; getting summoned into the world of someone who doesn't know what they are doing is pretty much the same thing. The second game even had quests which depended on the player summoning them for a certain number of bosses and keeping them alive. I didn't do those, because fuck that noise. Escort missions are the worst.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah that shit in DS2 was annoying as fuck. I think it's just a matter of balance and proper design though. None of those things you've mentioned were designed with the intention that you be able to protect/save your ally. They were just designed as straight up 1v1 fights that happen to have another body thrown in. Dynasty warriors games basically revolve around this premise; it's great when it's done well.

 

[Arnust]

Isn't that pretty much what Code Vein is gonna be about, based on what has been shown and said about it?

 

[Strange Fellow]

Dynasty warriors games basically revolve around this premise; it's great when it's done well.

I'll take your word for it, never played those. I still believe in good escort segments in much the same way as I believe in good RTwP.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Immediately after walking into the next area in DS3 I recognized the pvp zone with one glance. I'm never getting through Irithyll online am I?

 

[Wunderbar]

They had never done this before, as far as I can remember.

Demon's souls was full of gimmicky bosses. But they all had either interesting gimmick, or an interesting lore.

The second game even had quests which depended on the player summoning them for a certain number of bosses and keeping them alive. I didn't do those, because fuck that noise. Escort missions are the worst.

these quests were easy cuz summoned NPCs have a ton of health.

Immediately after walking into the next area in DS3 I recognized the pvp zone with one glance. I'm never getting through Irithyll online am I?

it's not bad. Invasion zone is small, and most of the invaders are scrubs anyway.

 

[sullynathan]

had either interesting gimmick, or an interesting lore

Nope

 

[80Maxwell08]

They had never done this before, as far as I can remember.

Demon's souls was full of gimmicky bosses. But they all had either interesting gimmick, or an interesting lore.

The second game even had quests which depended on the player summoning them for a certain number of bosses and keeping them alive. I didn't do those, because fuck that noise. Escort missions are the worst.

these quests were easy cuz summoned NPCs have a ton of health.

Immediately after walking into the next area in DS3 I recognized the pvp zone with one glance. I'm never getting through Irithyll online am I?

it's not bad. Invasion zone is small, and most of the invaders are scrubs anyway.

DeS was full of gimmick bosses, especially the final bosses for each area but boletaria. Honestly DeS's bosses were the lowest point in the series as a whole. Dragon God, The Old Monk(I appreciate the idea but it still wasn't a good fight), Storm King, Maiden Astraea. I like DeS quite a lot but there were some awful ideas for bosses in there. The DS2 npc summons were buffed to hell because they tied their survival to their quest progression, not that it was a good idea anyway. Honestly the real value of the DS2 summons is how tanky they are so they can draw fire for most of a fight to give you a moment to heal up and get your barrings. Thanks for the comment on Irithyl but I may have to play offline anyway. Having multiple invaders summoned against me nearly every time I went in, combined with this series's terrible netcode, just isn't fun. I don't want to have to resort to summoning a bunch of people just to walk through one courtyard.