Daggerfall, fucking Daggerfall

[Grimwulf]

Another nice INI tweak makes grass and foliage super tall. Got jumped by a spider family yesterday, despite the mommy being gigantic I didn't see her until it was too late because I was chasing an elk and didn't bother perching up on a rock to scout the path. It's like I'm really playing pokemon!

( except it's not turn-based ;( )

Tall grass mod didn't work very well for me, some areas of Skyrim were simply not meant to be THAT grassy. Especially when it comes to snowy regions. But it felt good while hunting around Falkreath, I'll give it that.

The worst thing about grass is that it doesn't let you enjoy the results of massacres you're causing.


Also, I stumbled upon original Dagerfall trailer recently and the music there is just breathtaking. Why the fuck didn't they include it in the game? It's so Daggerfall-ish.

 

[Luzur]

Another nice INI tweak makes grass and foliage super tall. Got jumped by a spider family yesterday, despite the mommy being gigantic I didn't see her until it was too late because I was chasing an elk and didn't bother perching up on a rock to scout the path. It's like I'm really playing pokemon!

( except it's not turn-based ;( )

Tall grass mod didn't work very well for me, some areas of Skyrim were simply not meant to be THAT grassy. Especially when it comes to snowy regions. But it felt good while hunting around Falkreath, I'll give it that.

The worst thing about grass is that it doesn't let you enjoy the results of massacres you're causing.


Also, I stumbled upon original Dagerfall trailer recently and the music there is just breathtaking. Why the fuck didn't they include it in the game? It's so Daggerfall-ish.

Yeah i remember that trailer, it came with a demo of the game on a PC Gamer CD in 1996 (also had the Might and Magic 6 trailer on it) which i still have somewhere in the CD piles in my storage.

 

[baturinsky]

Fucking Daggerfall Is there a time limit before talking with Morgiah first time? I deferred doing main quest a bit to get some levels first. Lhotun did not mind waiting, but Morgiah is just a silent cardboard cutout now.

 

[Eirikur]

I remember the first time I gained access to the Internet. I was playing Daggerfall at the time, and was stuck trying to locate something in Nulfaga's castle. Used Alta Vista to search for a walkthrough to Daggerfall, and found the answer on a site called Daggerweb.

 

[Luzur]

Fucking Daggerfall Is there a time limit before talking with Morgiah first time? I deferred doing main quest a bit to get some levels first. Lhotun did not mind waiting, but Morgiah is just a silent cardboard cutout now.

You have to meet her after the first letter otherwise she will be gone forever and you wont be able to start the mian quest, after that you are free to go.

 

[Grimwulf]

You have to meet her after the first letter otherwise she will be gone forever and you wont be able to start the mian quest, after that you are free to go.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong or rather speaking about unpatched version. It's been forever since I received her invitation in my game and she's still waiting in Wayrest until I git gud and rich.

You have to meet Lady Brisienna, who invites you almost immidiately upon finishing first dungeon, and after that you are free. Other invitations don't have a time limit.

 

[Luzur]

You have to meet her after the first letter otherwise she will be gone forever and you wont be able to start the mian quest, after that you are free to go.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong or rather speaking about unpatched version. It's been forever since I received her invitation in my game and she's still waiting in Wayrest until I git gud and rich.

You have to meet Lady Brisienna, who invites you almost immidiately upon finishing first dungeon, and after that you are free. Other invitations don't have a time limit.

Oh yeah it was she that had the time limit.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Fucking Daggerfall Is there a time limit before talking with Morgiah first time? I deferred doing main quest a bit to get some levels first. Lhotun did not mind waiting, but Morgiah is just a silent cardboard cutout now.

As soon as your character has reached level 3, you will find a letter [from Morgiah] in your inventory. If your character has reached level 3 while in a dungeon, you must wait until you are outside again to receive the letter. [...] When you talk to Princess Morgiah, she asks you to deliver a letter to the King of Worms in Scourg Barrow, the leader of the ill-famed Necromancers. In return, she will tell you something about the Emperor's Letter. Her own letter is an agreement to give the King of Worms her "first" if he will arrange for her to be married to the King of Firsthold. Morgiah wants you to complete this task within a month, so these 30 days are your time limit for this quest.

No mention of time limit for her letter, but if it isn't in your inventory anymore, I guess you dun goofed

 

[Grimwulf]

People who get lost in Daggerfall and complain about inconvinient directions in Morrowind obviously never played Quest for Glory 2.

 

[Sceptic]

Unless you were playing a pirated version, QFG2 came with a map of the city, and one glance at the map told you exactly where these directions lead, which rendered the directions themselves redundant after that. The comparison with Morrowind is also odd - Morrowind featured usually obscure and occasionally outright wrong directions. The QFG2 directions lead you by the nose through every intersection. Granted the writing is colourful (as is Alichica in general) but there's nothing remotely inconvenient or confusing about them.

Not that I mind getting lost in DF, trying to find your way out because you forgot to set a teleport anchor at the entrance was great fun, and having to actually follow directions, and think about how they translated into your surroundings, was one of the greatest aspects of MW exploration, and one that no other game really ever tried to do.

 

[Grimwulf]

Unless you were playing a pirated version, QFG2 came with a map of the city, and one glance at the map told you exactly where these directions lead, which rendered the directions themselves redundant after that. The comparison with Morrowind is also odd - Morrowind featured usually obscure and occasionally outright wrong directions. The QFG2 directions lead you by the nose through every intersection. Granted the writing is colourful (as is Alichica in general) but there's nothing remotely inconvenient or confusing about them.

Not that I mind getting lost in DF, trying to find your way out because you forgot to set a teleport anchor at the entrance was great fun, and having to actually follow directions, and think about how they translated into your surroundings, was one of the greatest aspects of MW exploration, and one that no other game really ever tried to do.

Of course I played pirated version. Good luck finding licensed version in Russia of 90s. I mapped most of the city myself before finding Money Changer and the road back.

But you seem to like navigation im DF and MW, so what is your point? I just kind of dislike youtubers/forum posters who constantly whine about TES games being complicated or inconvinient. Inconvinient my arse.

 

[Luzur]

Unless you were playing a pirated version, QFG2 came with a map of the city, and one glance at the map told you exactly where these directions lead, which rendered the directions themselves redundant after that. The comparison with Morrowind is also odd - Morrowind featured usually obscure and occasionally outright wrong directions. The QFG2 directions lead you by the nose through every intersection. Granted the writing is colourful (as is Alichica in general) but there's nothing remotely inconvenient or confusing about them.

Not that I mind getting lost in DF, trying to find your way out because you forgot to set a teleport anchor at the entrance was great fun, and having to actually follow directions, and think about how they translated into your surroundings, was one of the greatest aspects of MW exploration, and one that no other game really ever tried to do.

I very, very rarely got lost in DF dungeons actually, dunno why i guess i have a in built map in my head for that game or i was just good at reading my bearings and surroundings.

 

[abnaxus]

Aside from a few exceptions, Morrowind locations were all included on the map you got with the game, too.

 

[Nael]

Unless you were playing a pirated version, QFG2 came with a map of the city, and one glance at the map told you exactly where these directions lead, which rendered the directions themselves redundant after that. The comparison with Morrowind is also odd - Morrowind featured usually obscure and occasionally outright wrong directions. The QFG2 directions lead you by the nose through every intersection. Granted the writing is colourful (as is Alichica in general) but there's nothing remotely inconvenient or confusing about them.

Not that I mind getting lost in DF, trying to find your way out because you forgot to set a teleport anchor at the entrance was great fun, and having to actually follow directions, and think about how they translated into your surroundings, was one of the greatest aspects of MW exploration, and one that no other game really ever tried to do.

I very, very rarely got lost in DF dungeons actually, dunno why i guess i have a in built map in my head for that game or i was just good at reading my bearings and surroundings.

Maybe I'm just stating the obvious here but I always use the "Hug the Right Wall Technique." When you run into situations like pits choose to either descend or don't but make a mental note if you run into a loop having not descended and then continue hugging the right wall. It takes maybe a bit more self-discipline to do it this way but in the end you will save yourself time and frustration of being lost.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I really wanted to like Daggerfall. But I can't stand RNG generated dungeons and the lack of an overworld makes it a bad game in my opinion.

 

[Grimwulf]

Unless you were playing a pirated version, QFG2 came with a map of the city, and one glance at the map told you exactly where these directions lead, which rendered the directions themselves redundant after that. The comparison with Morrowind is also odd - Morrowind featured usually obscure and occasionally outright wrong directions. The QFG2 directions lead you by the nose through every intersection. Granted the writing is colourful (as is Alichica in general) but there's nothing remotely inconvenient or confusing about them.

Not that I mind getting lost in DF, trying to find your way out because you forgot to set a teleport anchor at the entrance was great fun, and having to actually follow directions, and think about how they translated into your surroundings, was one of the greatest aspects of MW exploration, and one that no other game really ever tried to do.

I very, very rarely got lost in DF dungeons actually, dunno why i guess i have a in built map in my head for that game or i was just good at reading my bearings and surroundings.

Maybe I'm just stating the obvious here but I always use the "Hug the Right Wall Technique." When you run into situations like pits choose to either descend or don't but make a mental note if you run into a loop having not descended and then continue hugging the right wall. It takes maybe a bit more self-discipline to do it this way but in the end you will save yourself time and frustration of being lost.

What are u gonna do now? Self-discipline?

 

[Darth Roxor]

The non-MQ dungeons of Daggerfall are easy to navigate as long as you just go floor-by-floor, not going up or down any ramps/stairs before you've 'cleared' a floor. And obviously leave teleports for last (and don't jump into the water unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY), unless you recognise the dungeon's layout and are sure it's a good idea.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I also found the dungeons rather hard to navigate, at times, but not to the point of ragequiting or giving the game a bad name forever after. Sure there are some painful moments, even enraging sometimes, but that's part of how exploring dungeons is supposed to be AFAIC. I guess it all depends on your tolerance for losing a bit of time here and there and probably also your general enjoyment of the game. I liked the game enough to accept and not mind the occasional "lost in a dungeon" syndrome, it probably wouldn't have been the same in Neverwinter Nights for instance.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

I must be autistic but exploring those dungeons was some of the must fun i've ever had in a game. I remember it took me literally two hours to get out of one of the bigger dungeons and the sense of accomplishment was tremendous. Game might have been an unfinished mess but it was still an incredible experience for me.

This. I never finished Daggerfall. In fact, I don't evr remember doing the main storyline. I just remember going to random towns and going to dungeons and later doing some of the dungeon quests. The world was so big and felt epic. Even though I only played long enough to get some daedric and a house, I still loved it, despite never doing the main plot. I think just not knowing the full extent of the game made it magical.

I don't know if it's Daggerfall which caused it, but I don't like games where they show you exactly where to go and so on. For example, in Morrowind you had to read the quest text, which I think gave you a better mental "picture" of the world, but in the later versions it was all automatic. I don't know why, but I just don't like it. Fortunately, since these're single player games, I can shut it off and even mod it. In MMO's, you can shut off things, but you can't modit. And if you shut off things, other players will wonder why you're lagging behind them. And even though you can shut off things in single player games, I think they're not designed to be used that way. This can mean they're almost unplayable without those features.

I tend to be a very exploration-based gamer. I've done a lot of it over he years. Maybe my liking for navigating on my own is just tied to this somehow. But I'm a lot of things, not just an explorer. And even though I like to be on my own in the game, I don't like when games don't give you enough warning or preparation or logic for things. That can be a very big turn off for me. For example, traps which you can't see but kill you completely if you step on them. If they're at least somewhat visible by telltale cues, I'm much more friendly to that. In fact, a place with no hazards or traps is too safe and not what I'd expect. Anything which is a big part of a quest or a potentially lethal thing should have plenty of work done it so it's not too unpredictable.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Also what's with hating randomly generated things? That's one of the things I loved about Dagerfall! I've always liked games more when I know there's randomly generated things in it, even in strategy games with the random map. Maybe it's because I grew up programming computers, but I was always more impressed by it than just handmade things. I know handmade things have a much higher quality, but it has just never done it for me as much as when handmade things are combined with random generation algorithms. I also grew up reading Choose Your Own Adventure books. I liked how my experience with the book was more unique to me. Randomly generated content has lower quality, but it produces very unique experiences. You might only find a couple other players in hte whole world who've experienced the game world in the same exact way. That to me is special.

I also see it as a challenge. The holy grail is to reproduce reality artificially. I don't see it as achievable without a computer the size of our universe, but we can try. It's the fact it's unreachable which serves to make it such an enticing, magical and enduring goal.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Also wanted to add while I like some of these old games, my biggest peeve with them is how some places on the map or stages in a quest leave you hanging without any cues or observations or preparations. Now, I don't want many things handed to me and I've already stated my position on this clearly, BUT when something is important or very dangerous it should be developed enough by the designer so it's not completely unforeseeable. And IF it's going to be unforeseeable, it should be rare, and it should always be in the same place(s), if a player is going to revisit it (so as to be avoided). I also think this is tied to how the game handles death and savegames - if it's poorly handled than it's even more frustrating.

What I hate the most are overpowered combat encounters you CAN'T win which give you too little forewarning or potential exit. The ONLY recourse is to reload a savegame. Back then save scumming was common and expected, and frequent reloading was equally normal, but I HATE saving/reloading. Perhaps it's all these years of playing MMO's, but I just cannot embrace the same old and tired saving/reloading thing.

Some old games are unplayable for me because of this. Yet I am still very tolerant. I absorbed a dozen or so deaths several months ago when I finished Fallout. I had a negative impression of the game. It has some decent content and it's an open world and well made, but it has big flaws imho. Playing through Eschalon Book I only died a couple times by comparison. Yet that had less content than Fallout.

I'd have ot replay Daggerfal to get a feel for how it stands in this category.

 

[baturinsky]

Make char with immunity to paralisation, max hp/level and spell absorption. Also, a healing spell that you can spam when Ancient Lich/Vampire unloads on you.

 

[DraQ]

The comparison with Morrowind is also odd - Morrowind featured usually obscure and occasionally outright wrong directions.

Eh. They were wrong maybe two times in the whole game consisting of fuckload of quests and locations you could ask about.
A few more times they were technically correct but retarded "X is just a bit to the east, right next to the city (I neglected to mention it's also behind a fucking mountain range which is even more right next to the city, so to actually get there you need to go a long way northwest, then through a small pass, then go all the way back on the other side of the mountains and into small valley at which point you will notice you're actually just a bit to the east, right next to the city - I mean even without GPS navigation someone still has to troll the travellers, right?)".

Other than that you just had to follow them, pay attention and don't get confused by the environment.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Christmas came to me this year in the form of a free game.

I've always had trouble getting the combat to work properly in Daggerfall, so this game everyone keeps telling me about never seemed to work for me. I ran into an error where clicking the attack button would never work, even when I held down the button and moved the mouse in all directions in an attempt to swing or thrust. Others had the same error in DOSBox, but no one had a solution. Late last night I downloaded DragonfallSetup_EN from this site: http://wiwiki.wiwiland.net/index.php?title=Daggerfall_:_DaggerfallSetup_EN

I can actually swing a sword, now in the game! I screwed up and made a character class that couldn't use iron, so I screwed myself, but the important thing is combat works for me now and I'll be finally getting into this game in the coming months. Sweet Christmas!

 

[felipepepe]

There's also a similar setup file for Arena, if ever want to give it a try