Daggerfall, fucking Daggerfall

[Clockwork Knight]

You can say fuck here. In fact, it is encouraged when discussing TES.

fuck me
fuck you
fuck all

 

[Grimwulf]

You can say fuck here. In fact, it is encouraged when discussing TES.

fuck me
fuck you
fuck all

But what about the kids?
“Won't somebody please think of the children?!”

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Don't fuck them, it's illegal.

Spoiler

 

[Grimwulf]

For those who likes some good old vanilla balance, there is the fucker that removes the level cap:
DagSkills 0.96 by Ferital & Daneel53

Do yourself a favor and turn it off. Do not believe the description, it doesn't "Fix skills and attributes rising." The only fix it does is removing the 100p./100% cap. So when the installer asks you about components you wanns install, deselect that one. Or don't, if you're feeling munchkin.

I finally tracked it, yay. Now I can start a new gaem!

Also, did you know that if you give your char a second name, e.g. Vincent Rayne, you will be adressed as "Vincent" most of the times? The people call your second name only when it's sppropriate. So many small and cozy things about this game.

 

[Sceptic]

As for the main quest, I tend to be allergic for main quests in all TES games.

And here I thought we were going to be friends

IDK what NotAGolfer is on about, the DF MQ is really not that hard. The only reason people couldn't complete back in the 90s was that it was even buggier than the rest of the game, and it was veeeeeeeery easy to have it bug out and never know this has happened, then of course you start thinking maybe you did something wrong (and there are plenty of ways to fuck it up)... DQFIX fixes almost all problems with the MQ, and with that done there are plenty of pointers for what to do, how to do it, and why you're doing it, and unless you were raised on gaming with a quest compass it's really not that hard to complete it without any meta knowledge whatsoever. It helps that there are plenty of optional quests in the MQ too - you don't have to do everything, there's a set number of chains you have to go through that converge onto Gortworg and the orcish treaty, then it's a straight beeline to the endgame. All the optional maine line quests do help you figure out WTH is going on with all the political intrigue, which is an essential part of the DF experience (even if it's one that the majority of people overlook - their loss).

The entire betrayal chain of quests with the Wayrest nobility is fantastic. There's also a lot of quest reactivity that people miss - some of the quests have multiple solutions, and these can open up future quests, or make them impossbile to complete. Needless to say, they're all assholes, but Elysana is by far the biggest bitch.

 

[Grimwulf]

As for the main quest, I tend to be allergic for main quests in all TES games.

And here I thought we were going to be friends

IDK what NotAGolfer is on about, the DF MQ is really not that hard. The only reason people couldn't complete back in the 90s was that it was even buggier than the rest of the game, and it was veeeeeeeery easy to have it bug out and never know this has happened, then of course you start thinking maybe you did something wrong (and there are plenty of ways to fuck it up)... DQFIX fixes almost all problems with the MQ, and with that done there are plenty of pointers for what to do, how to do it, and why you're doing it, and unless you were raised on gaming with a quest compass it's really not that hard to complete it without any meta knowledge whatsoever. It helps that there are plenty of optional quests in the MQ too - you don't have to do everything, there's a set number of chains you have to go through that converge onto Gortworg and the orcish treaty, then it's a straight beeline to the endgame. All the optional maine line quests do help you figure out WTH is going on with all the political intrigue, which is an essential part of the DF experience (even if it's one that the majority of people overlook - their loss).

The entire betrayal chain of quests with the Wayrest nobility is fantastic. There's also a lot of quest reactivity that people miss - some of the quests have multiple solutions, and these can open up future quests, or make them impossbile to complete. Needless to say, they're all assholes, but Elysana is by far the biggest bitch.

Intriguing. But I still can't forget those two daedra seducers accompanied by a small army of knights. So let me ask this straight: aren't you supposed to be decently highlevel before diving into MQ and royalty games?

 

[Lemming42]

Main Quest is definitely the coolest part of Daggerfall. Huge amount of choice and flexibility, and the hand-crafted dungeons avert most of the issues that sidequest dungeons can have.

I love the part near the end of the main quest where

Spoiler

everyone you've pissed off sends assassins after you to try and take the totem. It's hilarious to take a step outside and suddenly find like 5 different assassins from 5 rival factions waiting for you.

Intriguing. But I still can't forget those two daedra seducers accompanied by a small army of knights. So let me ask this straight: aren't you supposed to be decently highlevel before diving into MQ and royalty games?

Doing the main quest all in one go without any sidequests would probably leave you underlevelled and make some parts extremely difficult, but if you just do a few guild quests and other sidequests along the way you should be fine. I always picked the Daedra language skill though, makes a lot of the game (especially Aetherius) a lot easier.

 

[NotAGolfer]

IDK what NotAGolfer is on about, the DF MQ is really not that hard. The only reason people couldn't complete back in the 90s was that it was even buggier than the rest of the game, and it was veeeeeeeery easy to have it bug out and never know this has happened, then of course you start thinking maybe you did something wrong (and there are plenty of ways to fuck it up)... DQFIX fixes almost all problems with the MQ, and with that done there are plenty of pointers for what to do, how to do it, and why you're doing it, and unless you were raised on gaming with a quest compass it's really not that hard to complete it without any meta knowledge whatsoever.

Well, I have to admit that last time I played it for more than a couple of hours was end of the 90s, so I didn't even know about DQFIX.
Still the only TES game I ever played through, so I know exactly what Grimwulf is talking about when he describes his lack of motivation to finish the others and the addictiveness of DF even if it gets extremely repetitive at some point. You're still proud when you found your way through one of these huge-ass dungeons and collected the quest item/killed the baddie, even after it stopped being fun.
Guess a replay is due. Fuck DaggerXL, that guy will never finish it.

 

[baturinsky]

Materials progression is weird. It's stale until level 9 (when you will be very lucky to find anything dwarven) and then suddenly shoots all the way to daedric tantos in shops.

 

[Grimwulf]

Main Quest is definitely the coolest part of Daggerfall. Huge amount of choice and flexibility, and the hand-crafted dungeons avert most of the issues that sidequest dungeons can have.

I love the part near the end of the main quest where

Spoiler

everyone you've pissed off sends assassins after you to try and take the totem. It's hilarious to take a step outside and suddenly find like 5 different assassins from 5 rival factions waiting for you.

Intriguing. But I still can't forget those two daedra seducers accompanied by a small army of knights. So let me ask this straight: aren't you supposed to be decently highlevel before diving into MQ and royalty games?

Doing the main quest all in one go without any sidequests would probably leave you underlevelled and make some parts extremely difficult, but if you just do a few guild quests and other sidequests along the way you should be fine. I always picked the Daedra language skill though, makes a lot of the game (especially Aetherius) a lot easier.

Alright, alright, you convinced me. Just lemme rank up a little at my knight order and collect my butiful ebony armor again. Then I give MQ a go.

Materials progression is weird. It's stale until level 9 (when you will be very lucky to find anything dwarven) and then suddenly shoots all the way to daedric tantos in shops.

Sometimes Random the Almighty gets really crazy in that game. Just got an elven claymore and ring of friendship in Privateers Hold. At level 1 with 50 luck. Something BAD is gonna happen to me soon.

And I believe I saw a mithril katana in Dwynnen at level 5 or 6. Besides, in vanilla most of the players level-capped at 28-31. Considering TES level progression system, it's actually VERY hard to gain those last levels the honest way. So lvl 9 should be considered hardnut midgame tier methinks. Still lucky if you get anything daedric tho.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Grimwulf with that mapping technique you clearly enjoy the ritual. I had no time for that when I was 20 with no commitments, nevermind now. Clearly it is not impossible but it is a waste of time for someone who doesn't dig the ritual. You do FFS you are mapping random sidequest dungeons. To each his own.

 

[otsego]

Anyone worth his salt knows that Interkarma has been creating tools for exploring Daggerfall files for quite a long time now. Seems he just recently came back on the scene after leaving it for a few years to port Daggerfall over to Unity (everyone's favorite engine!). The results are decent.

Web demo here (Unity web player):
http://www.dfworkshop.net/web_demos/daggerfallcity-test2/daggerfallcity-test2.html

Now that DaggerXL appears dead in the water, and after years and years of remakes and re-remakes and re-re-remakes, looks like this is the next best thing to be excited for if you want an updated Daggerfall. Though it'd take another brave soul to step up and script all of the actions, AI, mechanics, etc...

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

making a game is difficult enough. reverse engineering one and porting to a new engine plus redoing all the scriptinf aand AI is probably not going to be finished, ever.

 

[otsego]

A lot of cool user-made stuff has come out of Daggerfall in the last decade. I think most of us agree that the music was pretty awesome in establishing the atmosphere and feeling of the game.

Here's to approaching a castle town at dawn after traveling cautiously (skip to 2:05 for the dramatic climax , I speak as a shameless fanboy when I say it gives goosebumps):


And variation of the snowy track. It might not fit into the game as-is but as a piece of work it sounds pretty great:



It's too bad this dude seemed to disappear completely. I remember finding these tracks many many years ago, and even the original author of Daggerfall's music complimented him on how great they sounded.

 

[Invictus]

Daggerfall is like an abusive high school girlfriend; you were so hot and bothered to forgive her flaws because she gave you such a unique experience but looking back her problems (laberynth claustrofobia dungeons, huge gameworld with almost no depth or variety and mayor bugs) palé in comparison with her virtues of customization endless adventure and the glow of beign a unique TES game you look back fondly on your memories but the experience is quite better remembered than replayed

 

[Clockwork Knight]

port Daggerfall over to Unity

 

[baturinsky]

Hmm, can TheDarkMod engine and/or assets be used for "Daggerfall 2"?

 

[Wyrmlord]

Since we are having a Daggerfall discussion, I want to go back to the most annoying question that has stayed on my mind since I first finished the game. This is for DraQ or Sceptic or abnaxus.

Is or is not Gortwog a) part human and b) part descended from Tiber Septim?

Gortwog had the power to control the Totem and the Totem only responded to a descendant of Tiber Septim. (Or someone of royal blood?) So was he? Did Gortwog become king of orcs because at some point, orcs (perhaps when they were still in their elvish form) fucked with a few royal humans and they became the royal dynasty of orcs? Or is it that both Tiber Septim and Gortwog have a common lineage that goes back to a royal leader that predates all races in Elder Scrolls?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Sometimes Random the Almighty gets really crazy in that game.

You think so, huh.

I've crawled through Shedungent at level 3 yesterday. It was filled with nothing but very low level mages and battlemages, but then the random dungeon refiller kicked in, and while in a few places it would spawn an imp... one of the main dungeon junctions spawned a lich

 

[Stella Brando]

Lynches are kicking my ass at level 16. The level scaling has suddenly decided to throw them at me.

Wyrmlord mentioned the game becoming to easy around level 16, that's because he made a magic-oriented character, good at dealing with other mages.

For a melee or stealth character it gets a lot tougher.

I deliberately made an assassin with strong weaknesses to make things more interesting. Kind of a glass canon.

I don't really have the hit points or wisdom to deal with these guys now.

One stupid thing I did, by the way, is run all the time. I was going through my skills and found my running was at 94. Luckily I caught it, because
you can only get one skill above 95. I moved it to the other side of the keyboard where I can't use it and bought a horse.

 

[Sceptic]

Gortwog had the power to control the Totem and the Totem only responded to a descendant of Tiber Septim. (Or someone of royal blood?) So was he? Did Gortwog become king of orcs because at some point, orcs (perhaps when they were still in their elvish form) fucked with a few royal humans and they became the royal dynasty of orcs? Or is it that both Tiber Septim and Gortwog have a common lineage that goes back to a royal leader that predates all races in Elder Scrolls?

This being TES at its finest, it's entirely possible (and very plausible) that the Totem is lying about the descendant bit in order to get itself into someone else's hands, because it doesn't like you. It's also very possible that it simply works for royal blood, at which point Gortwog, as King, would count. It' also possible that anyone can use it, and again the Totem is lying. I don't think Gortwog is part-human or has TS blood in him, but then his entire relation with Daggerfall and with Lysandus is very odd, and again this being TES it's not a theory that can be discarded outright. The game never really tells you what's up with that, though I've always assumed that the Totem was simply lying. The fact that Mannimarco can manuipulate the Mantella despite not being related to TS would support this, but then this is Mannimarco we're talking about.

Short answer: who the fuck knows.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Stalin_Brando
Spoiler alert:

This game was not meant to be finished by non-magic characters.

Later in the game, you will encounter locations where you can only travel by levitating. And then there are Ancient Vampires who will paralyze you and finish you off with poison attacks. Basically, this is a world where magical semi-dieties duel and dish it out to the maximum extent of their powers and of their immunities; the physical beings are just victims of collateral damage caught in the middle.

They only have physical classes such as fighter or thief or whatever just for fun and experimentation, but you are not supposed to play the game proper with them. At the highest levels, this game is about magical duels between Daedroth, Vampires, Liches, Mages,.etc.

The ONLY way to finish the game with a non-magical character is to a) get enchantments that allow you to use magical abilities such as levitation and b) work for all the daedric lords until you get artifacts that give you spell reflection,.etc. That's going to be a lot of work and lot of patience before you even begin the main quest.

 

[Stella Brando]

This fucking game.

Edit: Wait a minute:

 

[abnaxus]

Liches and ancient liches aren't that dangerous, it's ancient vampires that can kill any unprepared character in seconds.

Non-magic characters definitely need Spellbreaker artifact from Peryite.

 

[Luzur]

Liches and ancient liches aren't that dangerous, it's ancient vampires that can kill any unprepared character in seconds.

Non-magic characters definitely need Spellbreaker artifact from Peryite.

if you stay back liches kill themselves, vampires on the other hand...brrr