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Daggerfall, fucking Daggerfall

Stella Brando

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
8,968
Location
Castle Volkihar
Castle Wayrest
Trying to find this fucking painting for the bitch queen of Sentinel
Wandering around identical tunnels for hours
End up walking through red brick teleporters, crawling down 2 foot high underwater entrances
Finally find the painting
Have a non-magic character and can't recall out of the fucking maze
Eventually use a walkthrough to locate a fucking invisible door Bethesda expects me to see
6:00 am real world time I wander out of there
I've been carrying my own weight in treasure, throwing away handfuls of gold so I can lug extra daedric shit around
Queen offers me a chilly thank you and about 1000 gold chump change

After a lifetime of spicy food and ladyboy lovin' my butthurt threshold is pretty high
but I'm reaching critical levels
I'm getting PTSD like chicks who read about the patriarchy on tumblr
I'm up early, even though there's no work today
If I sleep I dream I'm in High Rock
My hands feel just like two balloons
I've got stomach cramps, diahrea
feel like throwing up

Why are these dungeons so fucking difficult
I hate dungeons
Why can't I be a happy ranger, pew-pewing deer in speedtree forests?
I never finished the Mainquest all those years ago
I don't know If I can do it today

The horror the horror

Don't trigger me bros
 
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Unwanted

913

Unwanted
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
134
Yeah, despite playing it for dozens of hours, this is one game I will never finish. Has some good ideas and all but I think you'd have to be pretty autistic to get seriously invested in that shit.

Also, obligatory:

 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
I used to think that secret doors in pre-1996 games were ridiculous, and was amazed that the developers expected players to find them.

Then I realized that nearly every game had such secret doors, and players back then were accustomed to finding them. It was not a big deal, and they always knew to click on walls or look for a wall with a different looking texture.

Similarly, I thought it was ridiculous that Betrayal at Krondor had "illusionary mountains", and that if you tried to walk through them, you'd discover secret hidden areas on the other side. But as I played more and more old games, it seemed that an illusionary wall or an illusionary mountain was the most standard and obvious thing to expect.
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
Has some good ideas and all but I think you'd have to be pretty autistic to get seriously invested in that shit.
Hey!

I finished the game twice and was seriously invested enough to try five different characters with it.

I am not autistic. At all.
 

Stokowski

Arcane
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
4,580
Location
Gehenna
3nyLOC2.png
 

nomask7

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
7,620
I miss big complex dungeons. And modern tech could do so much with the concept.

It's in the dungeons becoming like short railroads where you see the decline most clearly.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,043
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Daggerfall is one of very few games where I think it's acceptable to cheat. Not on every dungeon obviously, but fuck running around a huge labyrinth (and falling into an inescapable underwater tunnel/passageway and not realizing until it's already too late to ever escape) in order to find a sheet of frigging paper hidden in a small cabinet obscured by a glitchy-ass wall.

When I last played it I had a rule - I'd try and do every single dungeon fairly, but if at any point I'd spent 30 minutes or more making no progress/running around the same area while trying to find a way out, I'd just cheat. Made the game much more manageable.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,274
Location
Terra da Garoa
My rule is to always play characters magical enough to at least be able to teleport back to the entrance. I don't mind exploring, but fucking backtracking those random mazes with that shitty map system bores me to death.
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
2,301
after 20 years of thinking about it, i've come to the conclusion that arena is better.
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
after 20 years of thinking about it, i've come to the conclusion that arena is better.
Arena was a pretty broken game with absurd balance between classes and races.

The game allowed almost no fault invisibility that could let you attack monsters without being attacked back, potentially high levels of stealth that just meant that enemies would stand there and wait for you to sneak attack them, and huge bonuses to attack based on experience level (if you were a certain race or class). So you could just be on a win button from start to finish.

However, Arena had some of the most fascinating and complex main quest dungeons that I can remember in any game. They were huge and it could take you 2 or 3 hours to find your way to the end of each one. I skipped through the Labyrinthian dungeon, though, since I used a special key that could open any locked door. I should redo that level playing the game normal this time.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,043
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Arena is awesome, despite it's massive and numerous shortcomings. I still remember the walls next to lock doors that inexplicably won't let Passwall work on them, and the completely piss-easy playthrough I had when an ebony longsword spawned right outside the cell at the start.

The dungeons also have an atmosphere to them that was never quite recreated. I can still vividly remember most of the main quest dungeons. The boat ride in that dungeon with the temple in the middle of the underground lake and the zombies and necromancers on all sides is burned in my memory forever. Morrowind's dungeons never really impressed me (the non-dungeon parts definitely did, though) and there's not really a strong atmosphere in most of Oblivion or Skyrim's dungeons. Daggerfall's could have been better than Arena's if it wasn't for the endlessly re-used, copied and pasted wall textures and completely illogical feel to the layouts. Also in Daggerfall they threw in a bunch of useless "scary" shit like the hanging girl sprite that pops up out of absolutely nowhere, which is more funny than anything.

Overall I wouldn't feel right calling Arena better than Daggerfall, but it's still great.
 

Stella Brando

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
8,968
Location
Castle Volkihar
You're certainly a trooper, Wyrmlord.

Why do the middle ages have to have dungeons anyway? Do all historical periods need to have a designated altitude? Like the jet age and the space age?

What's the connection between medieval and underground?

If you look at gothic churches it seems they really liked tall things.

Was the Moria section of The Lord of the Rings a big influence?

Did everyone want to rob tombs like Indiana Jones?

Give me my above ground missions damn it!

I like how Baldur's Gate 1 let you wonder over endless fields. Some said that was boring and pointless, I was having the time of my life.
 
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Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,406
Location
Djibouti
It's said that each time Deus Ex is mentioned, someone goes ahead and installs it.

For me, each time Daggerfall is mentioned, I get the sudden urge to start it again, play for 3-4 hours tops and do completely random shit like buy ridiculous clothes and genocide city guard.

Must... resist...
 

nomask7

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
7,620
You're certainly a trooper, Wyrmlord.

Why do the middle ages have to have dungeons anyway? Do all historical periods need to have a designated altitude? Like the jet age and the space age?

What's the connection between medieval and underground?

If you look at gothic churches it seems they really liked tall things.

Was the Moria section of The Lord of the Rings a big influence?

Did everyone want to rob tombs like Indian Jones?

Give me my above ground missions damn it!

I'd guess dungeons were probably a result of the limited tech of the 1980s. When you could only see a couple steps ahead, dungeons made a lot of sense.

Even with newer tech though, I think they're a great way to create atmosphere and challenge if they're complex enough. In open space you can pretty much see all the monsters a mile away, but in a dungeon there's more tension, as you could run into a monster behind the next wall.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Wayrest was that one in which you're required to swim and find a passage below water level, right?

As for secrets, remember that your map shows them even if you don't see them.
 

abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
10,849
Location
Fiernes
Direnni Tower is only memorable dungeon in the game. Though visiting Mannimarco was cool as well and his little deal with Morgiah was intriguing.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,165
I must be autistic but exploring those dungeons was some of the must fun i've ever had in a game. I remember it took me literally two hours to get out of one of the bigger dungeons and the sense of accomplishment was tremendous. Game might have been an unfinished mess but it was still an incredible experience for me.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Somehow I remember Orsinium more; I think there was first some huge trek and then you were told (?) about a secret which allowed you to pass through the whole thing quickly.

And also Castle Daggerfall, that amazing feeling while looting the treasury.
 

Lord Azlan

Arcane
Patron
Shitposter
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
1,901
I must be autistic but exploring those dungeons was some of the must fun i've ever had in a game. I remember it took me literally two hours to get out of one of the bigger dungeons and the sense of accomplishment was tremendous. Game might have been an unfinished mess but it was still an incredible experience for me.

Oh how I loved Daggerfall - I never imagined anything could be better but then Morrowind came my way.

I also spent endless time in dungeons - I am sure some of them were infinite. Then you somehow slipped in between time and space - some sort of limbo. What was the matter with me?
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,043
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Adding to the "best dungeon in the game" debate, my vote goes for Direnni tower. Right from the start (that tower in the middle of the hall with all the corpses on it) it's cool, and the room with the Altmer lady at the end feels weirdly ethereal and peaceful, which is pretty much exactly what you want after 999 hours of trawling the tower.

So the dungeons would be better if you removed what makes them dungeons?

:shunthenonbeliever:

Well the main quest ones had at least a scrap of a "this might be an actual building used for something" feeling, but the randomly generated sidequest ones were beyond human comprehension. A grand entrance hall with a small wooden door leading to a 500 ft drop as its only exit and other such greatness.

But it wouldn't be such a problem if the map wasn't the worst thing humans have ever created. I'm still convinced that some of the randomly generated sidequests dungeons were literally not possible to complete.
 

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