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Crypts of Avaritia - design discussion and feedback

r3jonwah85

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Added limited carrying weight in your backpack today and of course weight on every item, this way you have to manage your resources more and you need to increase your strength to be able to carry more without becoming encumbered. Nothing new under the sun of course since many great games uses this kind of system, but now it is also working in Crypts of Avaritia.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
Hej min svensk kamrate!
Ditt spel verker ganska cool. Är du använder Unity3d?
 

r3jonwah85

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Hej min svensk kamrate!
Ditt spel verker ganska cool. Är du använder Unity3d?

Hej, och tack ska du ha! Ja, jag använder Unity, tyckte det verkade smidigast när jag började, har aldrig arbetat med något annat verktyg dock.

And in case someone none native in swedish wonders (although I am guessing that zwanzig_zwoelf isn't either :cool:), Unity is used to develop the game.
 
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zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
Hej min svensk kamrate!
Ditt spel verker ganska cool. Är du använder Unity3d?

Hej, och tack ska du ha! Ja, jag använder Unity, tyckte det verkade smidigast när jag började, har aldrig arbetat med något annat verktyg dock.

And in case someone none native in swedish wonders (although I am guessing that zwanzig_zwoelf isn't either :cool:), Unity is used to develop the game.
Hoj igen!
Jag er ledsen foer min daliga svensk - jag talar inte svenska foer ar. Men jag ska goera mitt baesta foer att aterhaemta sig.
Ahem.
Fucking shit, bror, I'm sorry. It's been a long time since I spoke in my native tongue (inb4 I'll get claimed as traitor). Unity3d is a pretty nice tool if you get a grip on it. This stuff looks pretty sweet.
 

r3jonwah85

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Messages
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Hoj igen!
Jag er ledsen foer min daliga svensk - jag talar inte svenska foer ar. Men jag ska goera mitt baesta foer att aterhaemta sig.
Ahem.
Fucking shit, bror, I'm sorry. It's been a long time since I spoke in my native tongue (inb4 I'll get claimed as traitor). Unity3d is a pretty nice tool if you get a grip on it. This stuff looks pretty sweet.

Okej, då skriver jag lite på svenska för att påskynda din återhämtning, antar att du flyttat från Sverige för ett tag sedan? Antingen det, eller så bor du fortfarande i Sverige men lever som en eremit långt ifrån alla svensktalande människor ( med tanke på att du inte hade pratat på ett tag) :cool: Unity är verkligen ett schysst verktyg, jag började använda det för några månader sedan och började läsa lite om programmering samtidigt, nu jag får ganska enkelt saker att fungera då det dessutom finns mycket bra hjälp att tillgå på internet. Och tack för komplimangen!

To add some real updates in a language most other people will understand, I have spent a couple of hours tonight making it possible to pick up empty bottles, go to a source of fresh water, fill the bottle up and drink it later on when needed. When you drink the water the water bottle gets empty again and you can fill it up if so inclined. You can also just drink directly at the water source so you don't have to fill up bottles to quench your thirst directly. Sounds trivial but man it was a pain in the ass to figure out how to do it.

My graphics card has still not arrived (it has been sent to the wrong address 4 times now, been waiting 4 weeks in total...), but once it does I will do a video update of some of the new features.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
Hoj igen!
Jag er ledsen foer min daliga svensk - jag talar inte svenska foer ar. Men jag ska goera mitt baesta foer att aterhaemta sig.
Ahem.
Fucking shit, bror, I'm sorry. It's been a long time since I spoke in my native tongue (inb4 I'll get claimed as traitor). Unity3d is a pretty nice tool if you get a grip on it. This stuff looks pretty sweet.

Okej, då skriver jag lite på svenska för att påskynda din återhämtning, antar att du flyttat från Sverige för ett tag sedan? Antingen det, eller så bor du fortfarande i Sverige men lever som en eremit långt ifrån alla svensktalande människor ( med tanke på att du inte hade pratat på ett tag) :cool: Unity är verkligen ett schysst verktyg, jag började använda det för några månader sedan och började läsa lite om programmering samtidigt, nu jag får ganska enkelt saker att fungera då det dessutom finns mycket bra hjälp att tillgå på internet. Och tack för komplimangen!
Tack så mycket! Jag flyttade från Sverige 8 år sedan, så jag här en problem med tala på svenska (för nu). Jag kan hjälpa dig med viss säker, om du behöver de (grafiskt effekter, lighting, t exempel).
 

r3jonwah85

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Tack så mycket! Jag flyttade från Sverige 8 år sedan, så jag här en problem med tala på svenska (för nu). Jag kan hjälpa dig med viss säker, om du behöver de (grafiskt effekter, lighting, t exempel).

Tack för erbjudandet, jobbar du med spelutveckling eller liknande? Just nu så kommer jag nog arbeta själv ett tag då jag jobbar lite oregelbundet och vill inte sätta press på mig själv eller någon annan, men jag ska ha det i åtanke :)

Ok, back to english, spent my friday night until 5 in the morning writing a new algorithm for generating the dungeons, now there are floors and some technical limitations has been solved. Before there could be what you call levels, but only local vertical spreading in one tile, if they were able to spread horizontally you might get overlapping parts which of course would be bad. What I now have implemented is a "teleportation" system that when the player walks in a stair that leads to another floor the player gets teleported to another part of the map without noticing it. This way I can allow tiles that are practically limitless in the vertical direction (in a level design perspective) and still only make the player walk up one pair of stairs to the next floor without any overlapping. Will get a video of the result when my computer is fixed, but for now I only have this:

generation1.jpg


What you see is the floors that has been generated, at the moment it looks empty and dull but the concept works fine. When I start the content creation this will look much more alive. A tile is 100x100 meters, each level in this picture consists of 3x3 to 6x6 tiles (so 300 to 600 meters on a side), 10 levels are generated in this picture.

And a close up of a generated floor to get a better sense of scale:

generation2.jpg
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
Tack så mycket! Jag flyttade från Sverige 8 år sedan, så jag här en problem med tala på svenska (för nu). Jag kan hjälpa dig med viss säker, om du behöver de (grafiskt effekter, lighting, t exempel).

Tack för erbjudandet, jobbar du med spelutveckling eller liknande? Just nu så kommer jag nog arbeta själv ett tag då jag jobbar lite oregelbundet och vill inte sätta press på mig själv eller någon annan, men jag ska ha det i åtanke :)

Neh, jag är ett trådlöst nätverk ingenjör, det spelutveckling är en hobby för nu.
Hopefully, I'll become a full-time developer in a couple of years.
 

r3jonwah85

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Neh, jag är ett trådlöst nätverk ingenjör, det spelutveckling är en hobby för nu.
Hopefully, I'll become a full-time developer in a couple of years.

Ok, samma som för mig då :) I got two years before my PhD is finished to see if I can get any good at game design and programming and if I can keep up interest, but so far this is really fun to do. It is always nice to have options in life.

Ok, got my graphics card back Friday and have been updating things today, thought it would be nice with a new video of the stuff that has been added over the last 4 weeks. In this video the player is maxed out on everything just for show, this will be different in the standard gameplay of course. Things are not balanced either and some graphics are placeholder as per usual. I think one new feature is also the messages sent to player, look at the upper left corner.

In order of appearance you see:
- Perception check of player perception level reveals a trap (if the player level is lower that the trap level no visual or audible hint will be given).
- The door is locked and you need to open it with a sequence of latches/buttons. There are 6 types of doors; open doors, locked doors with specific key, doors that open with a lever/button elsewhere, doors that must be lock-picked, doors that needs a sequence (as in the video) and finally doors that are being opened by projectiles at remote locations (open with magic or arrows, or use levitate spell and take a swing at it).
- You find the sequence and open the door.
- You pick up some items. Weight of items has been implemented, encumbrance will have effect on the player.
- You drink some water in the fountain.
- You fill up a empty bottle with water in the fountain.
- Your body temperature has decreased a bit so you raise it by the fire. There will be areas that are either very hot or very cold and will kill you over time unless you use a spell or some equipment that adds resistance to the temperature effects.
- You sleep for a while to regain stamina.
- You equip a torch to see in the dark. I will add burn out of the torches, and also that you have to ignite them at a fire source and they will be out out when you jump into the water.
- You get cut by the swinging trap and start to bleed (level 1 severity, icon showed at bottom right corner). Oh, and by the way, it was done on purpose for demonstration purposes, I don't suck quite that hard ;). You can break bones, get cuts and get poisoned.
- You change the hand in which the torch is being held (you can equip 2 weapons/torches/shields at the time).
- You find somewhere to climb down on a wall, climbing depletes your stamina pretty fast. If your stamina drops to 0 you loose your grip and fall down. If your level is too low you won't get a grip at all to begin with.
- You find a secret path (determined by skill check on player, if the level is to low you won't be notified, although you can still pass through the wall).
- Fall damage is implemented and showed (you can break bones if you survive the fall which will impair your movement).

And one thing about the torches, do you think it should be pitch black when there is no environmental lighting present if no torch or light spell is being used? It looks pretty cool but I am not sure if it will get tedious over time..?

So that is pretty much it, hard to show off everything but these are the most recent updates I think. So what do you guys think? I do appreciate all forms of feedback at this stage.

 
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Alchemist

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Jun 3, 2013
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1,439
And one thing about the torches, do you think it should be pitch black when there is no environmental lighting present if no torch or light spell is being used? It looks pretty cool but I am not sure if it will get tedious over time..?

So that is pretty much it, hard to show off everything but these are the most recent updates I think. So what do you guys think? I do appreciate all forms of feedback at this stage.
It's looking good to me. I love the simulationist direction it seems to be going in (tracking body temp, etc). And regarding pitch-blackness, I actually like when games do that, and I think it fits the style of game this seems to be. The environment is as much a hazard as any monsters. Making light sources important adds a lot to the tension and danger. Just imagine looking down a dark hall and seeing just some glowing red monster eyes in the distance - creepy! Some people may be annoyed by that - but perhaps you could have some form of darkvision optionally available (based on racial choice, magic or something similar) for those who don't want to deal with torches. When darkvision is active you could add more ambient light to the scene. You could also have infravision which would make heat sources (such as warm-blooded monsters) visible in the dark.
 

r3jonwah85

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It's looking good to me. I love the simulationist direction it seems to be going in (tracking body temp, etc). And regarding pitch-blackness, I actually like when games do that, and I think it fits the style of game this seems to be. The environment is as much a hazard as any monsters. Making light sources important adds a lot to the tension and danger. Just imagine looking down a dark hall and seeing just some glowing red monster eyes in the distance - creepy! Some people may be annoyed by that - but perhaps you could have some form of darkvision optionally available (based on racial choice, magic or something similar) for those who don't want to deal with torches. When darkvision is active you could add more ambient light to the scene. You could also have infravision which would make heat sources (such as warm-blooded monsters) visible in the dark.

Thanks, my initial intentions was actually not to add that much depth to the gameplay (hence the Hexen reference) mainly to save development time and actually finish the game (this is my fourth game I have started, the other ones were a wee bit to ambitious for a total beginner :cool:). But as I learn programming and Unity better I can actually fulfil my visions without banging my head into the wall and grow tired of the whole thing.

Yeah, you are reading my mind pretty much, the darkness itself can be a very important game mechanic if used in the right way. A slider for ambient lighting will be added in the options for those who do not care for this, I have to do this anyway since gamma can not be adjusted in Unity as far as I have found, making the game look very different on different computers/monitors.

OK, a little update as well: I have added burnout to the torches, so they last a finite time. You also have to ignite it on another fire after picked up or after being eqipped (having a burning torch in your backpack is not a great idea...). I have started working on functions of weapons and such, right now the torch works (as mentioned) and a pickaxe used for mining/digging (which requires the skill of course, you can still equip the pickaxe but you won't be able to get trough any wall or ground). Will get a simple sword/axe in there soon as well, but the basics are the same for the pickaxe so I haven't bothered yet.

Added some things for the different doors, random placement of the key (if the door is locked by key) and random placement of latches/levers (again, if the door is of this type), the same will go for the rest of the door types (when applicable). This way even though you might have played the same tile before you still won't know how to open the door (the door type is also randomly chosen). I am trying to add as much random stuff as possible to make every run of the game unique.
 

r3jonwah85

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Okay, so a quick video update with some new stuff.

What you see in the video:
- Locked door that uses key, the player picks up the key and the door is unlocked (will hopefully improve this and add the key to the inventory instead)
- Player picks up some items, notable is the new plants/herbs, these will be used for healing poisoning and other stuff (such as give mana, health, food value etc., will have lots of different plants, also poisonous ones)
- Also picks up torches and a pickaxe, will use later
- Light up torch in fire (by the way, you can equip two torches and ignite one with the other if you for some reason want to, might be good when one is about to burn out)
- Lights up two fireplaces using the torch. Fires and torches in the dungeon has a random element that determines if it is ignited or not, this way the player will have to light up everything to get decent ambient lightning. Might even go as far as turn off all lights initially and make the player ignite them. I mean, why would someone leave a lot of fires and torches on in a large dungeon deep below the surface..?
- Use the pickaxe on some rock just to show the functionality, will hopefully improve the audiovisuals of the mining/digging...
- Try to climb with items equipped in my hands, the grip will of course fail and the player falls down
- Player breaks bones and impair his movement (level 1 break out of 5 for now). Also loses a lot of health in the process (will fine tune stuff like this later on)
- Player unequips everything to have free hands to climb with, now the grip is successful (of course you still need to have a higher climb skill level than the difficulty of the rock wall)
- Video ends



So there you have it, comments welcome as per usual!
 
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zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
I would like to help you tweak the graphics later, if possible. The game looks pretty sweet, but with some adjustments...
 

r3jonwah85

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I like the atmosphere. Reminds me a bit of Hexen 2.
Thanks, it is all a bit clusterfucked at the moment since I have to have everything close to able to test new features out, so hopefully the atmosphere will be even better in the end.

I would like to help you tweak the graphics later, if possible. The game looks pretty sweet, but with some adjustments...
I just might take you up on that! Like I said before at the present stage there is really no use to involve anyone else since I do not want to disappoint anyone or waste anyones time (except my own), but we can keep in touch over time through this thread or by pm if that seems alright by you? But I am honored by you offering the help, but like I said I do not want to waste your time or efforts.
The graphics are really crude since I want to do them somewhat fast to test stuff out, and also because I lack the skill of actually making better graphics (at least within reasonable amount of time, UV unwrapping is a pain in my ass that I really do not care for). But all gameobjects are made in a practical way so that the models can easily be swapped out and get instant upgrade in the visuals (as in no scripts are attached to the models, I learned that lesson the hard way before...). 95% of the graphical stuff is made using Sketchup at present :)
 
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zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
I would like to help you tweak the graphics later, if possible. The game looks pretty sweet, but with some adjustments...
I just might take you up on that! Like I said before at the present stage there is really no use to involve anyone else since I do not want to disappoint anyone or waste anyones time (except my own), but we can keep in touch over time through this thread or by pm if that seems alright by you? But I am honored by you offering the help, but like I said I do not want to waste your time or efforts.
The graphics are really crude since I want to do them somewhat fast to test stuff out, and also because I lack the skill of actually making better graphics (at least within reasonable amount of time, UV unwrapping is a pain in my ass that I really do not care for). But all gameobjects are made in a practical way so that the models can easily be swapped out and get instant upgrade in the visuals (as in no scripts are attached to the models, I learned that lesson the hard way before...). 95% of the graphical stuff is made using Sketchup at present :)
I'm still fucking over UV mapping, because in-engine unwrapping in wz is a dual pain in the ass. I can help you with some textures/sounds.
Also, you might want to tone down specularity a bit (unless the walls are wet).
 

r3jonwah85

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I'm still fucking over UV mapping, because in-engine unwrapping in wz is a dual pain in the ass. I can help you with some textures/sounds.
Also, you might want to tone down specularity a bit (unless the walls are wet).

Thanks zwanzig_zwoelf, texturing will probably something that will be in dire need... About the walls I actually thought it would be really damp on the walls since the temperature is pretty low underground, but everything like this will be tweaked as time goes on. Once I am done with all main mechanics I will start specifying different tilesets (e.g. cave, dungeon, ice, fire, swamp etc.) and their textures.

So a small update then, objects such as chests are now lootable (once opened if locked), containing random objects. At present all items occur with the same frequency but I am going to implement loot tables (common and rare items and everything in between) tonight, at least that is the plan. The GUI for the looting also works of course.

The key system has been totally reworked, there are now 4 different type of keys; iron keys, bronze keys, silver keys and gold keys. The keys are general (as in not bound to a specific door) and are kept in the inventory. If a door is opened using a key (with the same type as the door requires) the key is used (destroyed) and the door permanently opened.

I have working swords and shields to accompany the pickaxe and torch, items that can be euipped in the hands are now swords, two-handed swords, daggers, axes, two-handed-axes, bows, crossbows, staffs, pickaxes, torches and magic.


Upcoming stuff:
- Cooking, cook the meat you have gotten (with the hunting skill) from dead animals/creatures to avoid poisoning
- Both clean and dirty water sources, boil the dirty water to clean it, otherwise you might get poisoned

Thats all for today, will be on a train for 9 hours tomorrow so might be able to fix a lot of these things then.

Comments and suggestions?
 

r3jonwah85

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Comments and suggestions?
Are you planning to implement (cross)bows and how do you plan to calculate damage?

Yes, that is the plan. The system will be stat based (dexterity) but you will always get a hit if you aim correctly (which will be up to the ability of the player), only the damaged done will be modified. So a higher skill level will increase the "accuracy" by dealing more damage in the same way that hitting a arm versus hitting the head would deal more damage (alright, both would probably hurt as hell, but this is video game logic). I want it this way since I find it frustrating when a game does not register a hit even though the player is sure there was one (Elder Scrolls), the same will go for melee weapons.
The damage dealt will probably be something like this:
(dexterityLevel / (dexterityLevelMax + Random.Range(0,3)) * bowDamage , but that is just from the top of my head, have not really thought it through. Might also add a modifier that uses strength, but at the same time this might force the player to increase both strenght and dexterity, which I would hate since then you practically got your standard melee character, and I would like keep the ability to stray away from melee as much as possible (since practically all games end up with a warrior type of character as the "best" way to go).

On the technical side of it I will probably use raycasts instead of rigidbodies, cheaper and more accurate (unless fiddling with a combination of the two to prevent arrows going through walls) when registering hits.

At least this is my idea of a intuitive system, opinions are most welcome.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
Comments and suggestions?
Are you planning to implement (cross)bows and how do you plan to calculate damage?

Yes, that is the plan. The system will be stat based (dexterity) but you will always get a hit if you aim correctly (which will be up to the ability of the player), only the damaged done will be modified. So a higher skill level will increase the "accuracy" by dealing more damage in the same way that hitting a arm versus hitting the head would deal more damage (alright, both would probably hurt as hell, but this is video game logic). I want it this way since I find it frustrating when a game does not register a hit even though the player is sure there was one (Elder Scrolls), the same will go for melee weapons.
The damage dealt will probably be something like this:
(dexterityLevel / (dexterityLevelMax + Random.Range(0,3)) * bowDamage , but that is just from the top of my head, have not really thought it through. Might also add a modifier that uses strength, but at the same time this might force the player to increase both strenght and dexterity, which I would hate since then you practically got your standard melee character, and I would like keep the ability to stray away from melee as much as possible (since practically all games end up with a warrior type of character as the "best" way to go).

On the technical side of it I will probably use raycasts instead of rigidbodies, cheaper and more accurate (unless fiddling with a combination of the two to prevent arrows going through walls) when registering hits.

At least this is my idea of a intuitive system, opinions are most welcome.
How about adding the distance to the target as one of the damage modifiers?
 

r3jonwah85

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How about adding the distance to the target as one of the damage modifiers?

Hmm, that is a really nice idea! You could do something like this then:

maxDistance = bowLevel * 20.0; //level of bows between 1-5, otherwise change multiplier, maximum range of any bow is 100 m (one tile)

damageDealt = (dexterityLevel / (dexterityLevelMax + Random.Range(0,3)) * bowDamage * Mathf.Max(0.0, (Mathf.Pow(maxDistance, 4) - Mathf.pow(hit.distance, 4))/Mathf.Pow(maxDistance, 4));

if(damageDealt == 0.0){
gui.message = "Your arrow did not reach its target".
}


You could increase the power of 4 with something higher for a even steeper cut off at the end, but I actually like the balance of using 4 just looking at it.
 
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zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
I have this formula:
baseDamage = damage (16) on minDistance (1000 meters). distanceMod is a current distance to the target. Modified by slight random (between 0.9 and 1.1). bodyPartMod - depending on a limb (head|torso|hands|legs). armorType - the amount of damage armor allows to get (still overthinking that one). modDamage - damage modifier (e.g. with weapon upgrade).

function Damage () {
damageFinal = baseDamage * modDamage * randomMod * armorType * bodyPartMod / (distanceMod / minDistance);
}

Basically, a point-blank shot can take out the target without much hassle - that requires additional maneuvering from player and enemies.
 
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r3jonwah85

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I have this formula:
baseDamage = damage (16) on minDistance (1000 meters). distanceMod is a current distance to the target. Modified by slight random (between 0.9 and 1.1). bodyPartMod - depending on a limb (head|torso|hands|legs). armorType - the amount of damage armor allows to get (still overthinking that one). modDamage - damage modifier (e.g. with weapon upgrade).

function Damage () {
damageFinal = baseDamage * modDamage * randomMod * armorType * bodyPartMod / (distanceMod / minDistance);
}


You are right, of course armor will also play a role at the enemy side of it, I just thought about the player side of it :) Handling of armor is actually a very nice topic that I have not researched yet. I do not really now what is the most common system, but something like this may be used?:

damageDealt = Mathf.Max(0.5 * damageDealt, (damageDealt - armorValue)), for example I have a armor with value 5, someone hits me hard with 30, I absorb 5 of those resulting in 25 damage dealt. We must use som kind of threshold as well otherwise the character can absorb infinite blows from a weak enemy. But like I said I have not researched this so this just from the top of my head.

We are on the same page regarding using a random element to the dealt damage, I think that is needed for "realism" and suspense.

I probably won't use something like bodyPartMod since then we go towards relying on the skill of the player (FPS style) more than relying on the skill level of the character we play, it is definitely tempting (everybody likes headshots I guess) but will cripple the roleplaying aspect of it I think.

I think it also is a bit harsh to use a linear dependency for calculating the impact of the distance to the target. If we use that we might force the player towards keeping close to the enemy with a ranged character for increased hit damage. If one chooses to be a ranged character I assume they want to stay away from the enemy and not use heavy armor and such, forcing them to be close to maximize damage will put them in danger in a way not really suited for the chosen character type.

A modifier that I had in mind is to use elemental arrows, as in fire, ice, wind, earth and spirit, to add damage over time once hit unless the character is immune to said element. Might just use enchanted bows instead for the same effect, but some form of magical modifier at least.
If a sort of crafting system would be implemented (thinking of doing a bare bones one, not really sure) you could combine poisonous herbs with arrows to make poison arrows, but we will see about that.

I appreciate the discussion, this is gold to me for making the best possible game :)
 

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