Save the world? Right after I empty your trashcan.

[Shackleton]

So I was making an attempt to get stuck into DOS2 when I realised what it was that has massively been bugging me about plenty of recent RPG's- the retarded crafting mechanics, or more specifically, the gathering of materials for the crafting. When the fuck did it become the norm for games to fill every container with semi-random junk that you just have to hold onto in case it turns out that the 'cum-soaked tissue' that you found in a bin three hours ago is a vital component of an 'Ultimate weapon of Doom +10'?

I mean, I liked crafting way back when I played MMO's because although it took time, you usually got the components from the mobs you killed or from mining nodes. To me, this was a much better way of gathering materials than searching every dustbin, crate or bedside table in the hope of finding a paperclip or some shit. It's seriously killing my desire to play DOS2 because bloody containers are everywhere! The gameplay loop is 'click on location, walk to it slowly and if there's no mobs, click on every item that can open and transfer all. Repeat.'

I suspect this is something else we can blame bethesda for, as I know all their hiking simulators have been filled with junk to pick up, but Witcher 3 did this as well, as did DOS1. Please god tell me ELEX doesn't do it before I give into temptation and buy it. The Gothic's were pretty good like this as they used the node system before everyone went retarded.

Yes, I know it's up to me whether I bother with all this, but I don't think I'm a special snowflake. I bet the vast majority of players pick up everything in every container in the hope it's useful, but does this really add anything worthwhile to the damn game? Making a useful item or weapon/ armour should be the result of actual challenging gameplay surely, not just constant container OCD?

 

[laclongquan]

You/We are murderhobo! Dump-diving is our business! Get with the program, chap!

 

[Shackleton]

I was thinking back to when I first played Baldurs Gate. I used to have a little shiver of anticipation when I saw something that could be looted, either a chest, table or bookcase, as there was always a slim chance something good could be there. Yes, it might be books or crap, but it could always be a decent ring, or belt or even weapon. In DOS2 I actually groan inwardly when I see a container I know it's just going to be more crap to clog up my inventory.

Games designers- people don't get the 'thrill' of looting from a dustbin, or from 'generic crate #352' Never has the phrase, 'sometimes, less is more' been more apt.

 

[Dyskolos]

The crafting aspect is mostly new to Original Sin (or was it in Divinity 2?, I just blocked that whole game out) so it may be due to the influence of other recent games but the flood of trash items to loot or pickup from the ground has been in the series since Divine Divinity. At the time it felt more a callback to Ultima.

At least Divinity doesn't force you to scrounge the trash like Arcanum.

 

[Raapys]

It's the same with these shitty plants everywhere. If you're gonna do crafting, you have to make the resources it require confined to certain areas where you go specifically to get those resources. A mine to get iron ore, that makes sense. A field to gather a particular flower, that makes sense. But placing everything everywhere is insanity and, in the cases where it's hand placed, a lot more effort from the developers that they could spend on better things.

 

[Shackleton]

The crafting aspect is mostly new to Original Sin (or was it in Divinity 2?, I just blocked that whole game out) so it may be due to the influence of other recent games but the flood of trash items to loot or pickup from the ground has been in the series since Divine Divinity. At the time it felt more a callback to Ultima.

At least Divinity doesn't force you to scrounge the trash like Arcanum.

See, I liked this pic. Yes, there's a lot of trash loot everywhere, but it's all totally logical. Even if Divinity had the moronic crafting system of its offspring, I wouldn't bother to pick any of this shit up, as if a recipe required it I'd know exactly where to go to pick up 'bottles of ale' or beer, or wine- a sodding pub. If DOS2 didn't hide everything in bloody crates and left it lying around in logical areas I'd be happier, if not exactly thrilled.

<disclaimer> Maybe it does this later on, I don't know as I can't bring myself to play any further than Fort Joy just yet.

 

[Plisken]

dumpster diving is a fucking retarded feature of RPGs these days, that players seem to insist (or developers think players need it) be standard.

For me its especially egregious in open world RPGs. You've got these massive spaces you could use to reward player exploration by having hidden treasures that are actually valuable (morrowind did this well, I feel) and instead you fill it up with fucking junk everywhere. Why the fuck do they do this? It's a chore. And the worst part is when you have to dumpster dive because otherwise you might miss out on some actually good item that you otherwise never would've looked for because of fatigue and disinterest from the literal thousands of junk containers. Witcher 3 does this shit and its inane.

 

[anvi]

Crafting is lame. Only time I ever liked it was TESO which has you gathering loot and you can either wear it (if its an upgrade), or sell it for cash, or deconstruct it for materials that you can then use to craft some new item. There was stuff to collect in the world too though, which is a horrible mechanic, but every game seems to do that now. It must be stopped.

 

[Lilura]

3.x crafting is ok (ToEE, MotB). Arcanum crafting is also good.

I suspect you don't like crafting because thinking hurts.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Consoletard developers just use it to include a "reward" even when there should be none, as their target audience demands a pat on the back of some sort every two minutes to continue playing.

The best form of crafting is hiring an NPC expert to do it for you in the rare event you find a few dragon scales or a pile of mithral stashed somewhere. Having it as character skill is kinda meh.

 

[Black Angel]

I suspect you don't like crafting because thinking hurts.

OP didn't say the crafting itself, but "more specifically, the gathering of materials for the crafting. When the fuck did it become the norm for games to fill every container with semi-random junk that you just have to hold onto in case it turns out that the 'cum-soaked tissue' that you found in a bin three hours ago is a vital component of an 'Ultimate weapon of Doom +10'?".

Yeah, I agree with OP that designing itemization and crafting to the point where players have to scrounge every nook and cranny of the gameworld, opening every single lockers, barrels, chests, and even looting dead bodies so they don't miss out the crucial ingredient is annoying, like in Bethesda's games. Even Underrail, for instance, have this design that do makes me open up every single containers I found because there's just so many crafting schematics, it's difficult to keep track of the right ingredients for what I want to make. However, Underrail also circumvent this tedious design with its mercantile system (specific merchants only accept specific item for them to buy from you, so that way you know they might have what you want), and also there are specific area in the gameworld that act like warehouses, which would be the best place to go on a scavenger/prospector hunt.

So, yeah, the solution to this would be to keep interactable-containers minimum and give players a choice to buy from merchants instead. Hell, Arcanum did this better than Underrail in terms of keeping interactable-containers minimum (only 1 or 2 barrels that can be opened, even though there are multiple barrels on screen).

 

[Shackleton]

Indeed, edited title to more accurately reflect the rant. As stated, I don't mind the actual crafting, just the ridiculous 'open a million containers to look for trash that *might* be used in crafting'.

Seems like nobody is going to confess they do actually like this gathering style, not really a surprise. It does beg the question wtf game designers go mad with it? I wonder if the rise in 'survival crafting' style games led to it?

 

[Rahdulan]

You say that like you didn't like dumpster diving in Tarant to craft guns from throwaway tubes and wires.

 

[Ellef]

Crafting is for faggots. Ruins any sense of wonder and discovery in finding new weapons and armor. When the sword you gather from killing Ancient Dragon of Doom is replaced by gathering 50 turtle shells and rhino hides, I just don't even bother with the game.

Any game with an extensive crafting system turns out to be banalshitboring in the loot department. DOS, Pillars etc

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Indeed, edited title to more accurately reflect the rant. As stated, I don't mind the actual crafting, just the ridiculous 'open a million containers to look for trash that *might* be used in crafting'.

Seems like nobody is going to confess they do actually like this gathering style, not really a surprise. It does beg the question wtf game designers go mad with it? I wonder if the rise in 'survival crafting' style games led to it?

They do it because back in the day MMO developers brought in psychologists and realized that they can get people to keep playing by creating these meaningless reward loops. Click everywhere, get rewarded with junk, and even though you know it’s worthless, you still get a tiny kick of dopamine in your brain. And the anticipation—maybe for once this container will have something useful instead of rags—also gives you a little dopamine jolt. Kind of like zillions of little in-game lottery tickets.

I’m elbow deep in Elex right now and while there are lots of annoying plants, the other scrounging elements are a lot less obnoxious. Lots of useful potions, not many containers, and most of the junk you do find is just meant to be sold. Plus, there’s a decent proportion of amazing weapons/rings/amulets lying around when you explore.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I don't really see much of a problem.

Just gather one or two of everything (to experiment, or just in case) and then just whatever seems useful and unique. You can always go and find a specific things later if you are in need of an ingredient. The pic above is a good example. If one really feels the need to pick up every Bottle of Beer and every Bread, I'd say the problem is ones own OCD rather than the games loot.

That being said, Div:OS does flood you with a fuckton of loot and it can get quite overwhelming. The crafting ingredients are not really the issue though, its more about the equipment because you never exactly know what might come in handy at some point, so you feel the need to pick it all up.

 

[Master]

Its the worst when one of the basic components is scrap metal, literally a little pile of junk. It just killed me every time i had to collect this shit in NV and recently in Alien Isolation.

 

[mondblut]

I suppose JA2 is to blame. It was the first game explicitly featuring "search dumpsters for the most mundane trash like metal pipes, adhesive, AAA batteries and broken gameboys to craft majick barrel extenders and personal radars".

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Fuck crafting.

 

[shihonage]

Crafting is a disease. It even made it into fucking "Alien: Isolation".

 

[Jimmious]

Actually now that I'm thinking about it, I can't think of an RPG that DIDN'T promote me searching every crappy container everywhere. I seriously can't think of one. Maybe only the ones that don't have containers like Blackguards? But that means that you need to remove exploration in order to remove the "loot everything" mentality?

 

[Daedalos]

Agree.

Absolutely one of the worst parts about D:OS 1 and D:OS 2. Fucking pixelhunting and the UI inventory manangement minigame. Tedious, boring, carpeltunnel-syndrome giving piece of shit.
Half the game time is spent on clicking useless shit and manageging it in your shitty ui.

Honestly can't think of anyt good crafting system in an rpg on the top of my head.

Loot hoarding is mental condition, and I suffer from it

 

[Fowyr]

Crafting could be made right. Just remember Unreal World or Cataclysm: DDA.

 

[coldcrow]

Since modestly realistic weight and bulk don't exist in rpgs anymore, this became a problem. Nonexistent or consolized inventory managment is glaring example of the decline. It's not even that much about realism, when I can't pick every piece of crap up, I automatically skim over the useless stuff.

 

[Pablosdog]

Its the fact that its created item bloat that bothers me. I don't really use crafting but i still find myself picking up random shit everywhere i go in the hopes of being able to be able to craft something worthwile.