Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Could someone please explain the appeal of Superhero films?

Discussion in 'Codex Public Library' started by mbv123, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarne for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Interestingly enough Argonautica was also the Justice League of its time.

    I dunno, in case of Captain America his powers are pretty understandable, the only thing wonky is the terminology used in the comics because claiming Cap is "only" peak human is total fucking bullshit. Movies actually handle this better since Cap is a straight up super-soldier. Cap can handle blunt force, falls, etc because he is tough, strong, and robust, but he is still vulnerable to bullets for instance (but he can still do it all day) because he is made of meat albeit tough meat. I suppose this also helps explain why Cap is always the action highlight of the Avengers movies too, since Cap's the one punching the most above his weight.

    Also personally I'd say the unheroic accusation is more easily leveled at the Snyder DC movies, one catches hints of it but the true key to unlocking the mystery of those films is learning that Zack Snyder is a Randroid.
     
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  2. Falksi Learned

    Falksi
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    Good shout. Cap's appreciation of vulnerability and weakness is handled really well in all the films imo, mostly through Evan's good acting via the sense of humility and humbleness which he often exudes.
    I've always thought that the Captain America films are by far & away the best Avenger films, Iron Man 1 being the other which stood on it's own as quality.
    Caps just an interesting character with an interesting story. Compare that to Thor's mundane invulnerability and it's a different class.
     
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  3. Make America Great Again Stalin_Brando Arcane

    Stalin_Brando
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    Unlike capeshit, Westerns were made for men. In every sense of the word.
     
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  4. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    There's a lot of interesting mythopopeia and parallels among super-heroes, other settings and myths

    Vaarna said it with the Argonauts. One could say super-heroes have a "Protector God of the City" feel to them.

    I'm surprised nobody ever drew a parallel between the "super-hero community" and the Wushu concept of the Jiangnu.

    The pulp connection is well-know.

    The super-hero also draws a lot from westerners, but the difference is that super-heroes usually settle rather than drifting. Golden Age Aquaman was practically a westerner starring Sheriff Arthur Curry, who swan from place to place helping people.

    Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
     
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  5. Make America Great Again Stalin_Brando Arcane

    Stalin_Brando
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    Did he not have a seahorse?
     
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  6. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarne for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Another thing that I particularly like in the Cap movies after the first one is that they had the idea that lets put the nicest, most morally upright hero possible facing "the good guys" doing things he cannot agree with. And a big part in why that works out so well is that Chris Evans indeed pulls off the whole thing with a sense of humility alongside the sort of certainty of a man possessing an innate ethical compass that he does not shake from, and never-give-up courage. Previously the most succesful live action adaptation superhero had been Batman, and while both have a natural optimum for making superb action scenes because both are fundamentally phenomenally SKILLED but still possessing important human vulnerabilities (like bullets). In fact I think it's kind of interesting that nowadays in movies Cap is much more like how Superman should be in terms of being a humble All-American man with a rigid moral standard in them and a motivation to heroism that does not stem from trauma or other dark impulse but a perception that they should always strive to do the right thing.

    As I mentioned above, that's where the strong undercurrent dissonance in the Snyder movies comes from. Now, I liked the two Snyder movies more than most people, but when I found out that Zack Snyder is a hardcore Objectivist a lot of things that had puzzled me as well (like how completely odd Pa Kent was) clicked in place perfectly. These are movies where the director is a man who is at his deepest level totally unable to even accept the existence of genuine altruism or value in it, much less agree with the moral roots of the superhero. Incidentally, this is also why Snyder presents violence in a completely different manner from the source material in his idolatrous Watchmen. Zack Snyder will take Grant Morrison's beautiful Dzögchen enlightenment given to Superman, but in his mind it is twisted into an unrecognizable means. Zack Snyder's Superman isn't doing something because it is the right thing to do and in his capacity he owes it to himself to do more for the sake of others because of the godlike gifts he is born with, Snyderman protects his garden-funhouse home planet and in subtext should be worshipped for it and his physical superiority and because he deigns to give a portion of his time and effort for the undeserving masses.

    To tie back, I think this is what a lot of people see as appealing in superhero movies overall, or at least the good and great ones: The notion that the human spirit can be noble and kind, and that there can be people. Or, I suppose Grant Morrison put it better in Supergods:

    In short, we live in a world where we all can desperately feel the NEED for superheroes.

    Grant Morrison has often used a personal example of this, his fear of nuclear apocalypse when growing up, an idea of helplessness and doom implanted in his young mind by the anti-nuke activism of his parents. There was nothing that could stop atomic war or save the world from it. Until he discovered Superman. Superheroes could stop the Bomb, they were stronger than the Bomb. Superheroes will never let us down. The motif of this sense of salvation in the face of end of the world through the superhero comes up repeatedly in Morrison's work, such as when Doom Patrol's final adventure is a battle against the egregore, the manifestation of thought and idea, of nuclear war, the Candlemaker, King Candle.

    One news article I remember quite vividly was a collage of photographs of anti-government graffiti back when the Syrian Civil War was only emerging to form. One among those graffiti stuck out to me and etched into my memory: A highly detailed depiction of Batman, with the word "protector" next to it in Arabic. It was the real world confirmation of those ideas: Desperate for hope, people knew that what they truly needed was not war or violence or terror or interventions, what they needed most was a superhero. Because Batman could save all of them, because Batman would never let any of us down.

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  7. Wehraboo Novice

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    Superhero films are just things people vaguely recognize, and since all the new shit hollywood dumps on us is garabge this makes them a safe bet. Both for you the audience member who knows what to expect, and for movie makers who are no talent hacks but can usually follow a set formula like SUPERHERO MOVIE enough to keep from pissing people off too much with various hollywood bs.
     
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  8. Falksi Learned

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    Yup. I hope that Evans gets the credit he deserves for doing what he's done with the role. In every single film he's starred in as Cap in he's been a pleasure to watch, and bought the role to life brilliantly. Much like how Christopher Reeve is Superman, High Jackman is Wolverine, Ryan Reynolds is Deadpool & RDJ is Iron Man, Chris Evean IS Captain America.
     
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  9. Make America Great Again Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

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    Logan is a neo-western superhero film. :M

    I suppose Jonah Hex is too, however it's allegedly extraordinary terrible.
     
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  10. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    I hate the whole concept of superzer0.
     
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  11. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    Can you recommend any adult westerns besides Unforgiven?
     
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  12. Monk Augur

    Monk
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    Tent-poles to target a global audience.
     
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  13. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarne for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Another thing I agree with that both Grant Morrison and Pat Mills have said is that superheroes have a strange quality in that capefaggotry is its own genre, but you can also attach superheroes into just about any other genre almost seamlessly.
     
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  14. funkadelik Cipher

    funkadelik
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    The appeal is that Disney pounds this shit down our throats through unlimited advertising budgets. The sole purpose is to sell clothes, video games and toys to children, but they throw in some "edgy" adult lines into the movie to make the "adults" feel good while watching it. Think of the amount of Halloween costumes they can sell to children and manchildren if the movie takes off?

    Also, watch the Disney channel for 20 minutes. It's constantly advertising its own shit, I don't even think they have non-Disney commercials. It could be for some new shitty movie, show, Disney kid pop album, toys, Star Wars, Marvel superhero movie, etc.

    The success of this assembly line, box-office hit generating machine has caused other studios to try the same stupid movie universe shit: although without the constant advertising push that makes Disney successful at it.
     
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  15. Visbhume Prophet

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    It seems that in both superhero comics and the history of religions there are "retcons": Christianity is a retcon of Judaism (all these ancient prohecies were actually about this guy!) and Islam is a retcon of both Judaism and Christianity (that Jesus guy wasn't actually the son of God, just another prophet!) Is there an actual technical term in the study of religion for this "strategy"?

    One thing religions try to do that I haven't seen done in comics is to "seal the continuity". Like Muhammad being the seal of the prohets and you shouldn't listen to the claims of any new one that comes around. The comics analogue would be telling the readers to disregard any future comics that disagree with the current canon. Of course a publishing house doesn't have the incentive to do that because it owns the characters and acknowledges they are fictional. Perhaps the closest thing would be a copyright claim.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017 at 10:32 AM
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  16. Durandal Arcane

    Durandal
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    It's just generally palatable to most people (living in the West), and in the minds of most people a safe bet
    When I was suggesting what movie to watch with a group of people I partially did and didn't know I'd suggested Baby Driver, but since there were some of them who weren't all into violent action movies we'd settled a compromise on Spiderman: Homecoming instead
    It wasn't a bad movie at all, but it goes to show that it's something anyone can watch without prior knowledge of the other MCU films
     
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  17. Gosling Liturgist

    Gosling
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    Try "McCabe and Mrs.Miller", "Life And Times Of Judge Roy Bean", "The Wild Bunch", "The Hunting Party", "At Home Among Strangers, A Stranger Among His Own".
     
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  18. TorontRayne Savant

    TorontRayne
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    I know you didn't ask me, but I recommend the True Grit remake. 3:10 To Yuma remake was pretty decent as well. Nothing really tops Unforgiven as far as serious westerns go. Personally I stick to Eastwood.

    High Plains Drifter
    Pale Rider
    Hang 'Em High

    I also like The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford. The Shootist with John Wayne was a pretty good western with not a lot of action.

    When it comes to superhero films we are reaching maximum saturation. Most of the movies have no real stakes so they are predictable with low barrier of entry. Logan wasn't even that great. Neither was Deadpool. They were just different enough to wash all the mediocre Xmen shit out of everyone's mouth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017 at 1:00 PM
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