Development Info Coreplay Issues Statement in Response to bitComposer Interview

[Monty]

I guess lawyers arguing on the codex is a change from programmers arguing on the codex. Now we just need a few accountants to have a go....

 

[Stabwound]

I think I can sum the situation up pretty well: the game is fucked. I think the best policy is to just assume any of smaller/indie companies are going to fuck up, especially kickstarter games. This game was too good to be true, anyway.

It sounds like incompetence and legal fuckery from both sides. And now if both sides are going to play little games like ignoring scheduled meetings and shit it's just stupid, really.

Let's be honest: is there even much enthusiasm for this game outside of the Codex? Does anyone even know or care about it? To me it seemed that this game was basically unheard of outside of this place.

 

[Rake]

I think I can sum the situation up pretty well: the game is fucked. I think the best policy is to just assume any of smaller/indie companies are going to fuck up, especially kickstarter games. This game was too good to be true, anyway.

It sounds like incompetence and legal fuckery from both sides. And now if both sides are going to play little games like ignoring scheduled meetings and shit it's just stupid, really.

Let's be honest: is there even much enthusiasm for this game outside of the Codex? Does anyone even know or care about it? To me it seemed that this game was basically unheard of outside of this place.

Was JA:BIA unheard of? i expect the 2 games too have a similar audience and sale expectations.

 

[The_scorpion]

I guess lawyers arguing on the codex is a change from programmers arguing on the codex. Now we just need a few accountants to have a go....

what's the point of arguing if nobody pays for my lawyer's expenses? (for Starters, i wouldn't agree with every Detail my colleague laid out above concerning the "Werkvertrag" under Swiss Law)

on an even less serious note, it must be something about Karma if the two lovely companies that brought us JA:BIA sue each other and blow their jewgolds on lawyer's expenses. Broken promises and stuff. See how that feels, guys?
Yeah i know:

 

[AbounI]

Let's be honest: is there even much enthusiasm for this game outside of the Codex? Does anyone even know or care about it? To me it seemed that this game was basically unheard of outside of this place.

Of course there are some who follow it outside of the codex. (there is a french community for it until the baderation, some still hope for a better futur too)
To be honest, CC is the game that made me to come here more often than before.I guess I'm not alone in this case.

 

[King Crispy]

If there were ever a thread deserving of the emoticon it's this one.

And bravo to both VD and Dhralei for their lucid and clarifying contributions.

 

[SuicideBunny]

mmh, high quality drama.

 

[villain of the story]

I guess lawyers arguing on the codex is a change from programmers arguing on the codex. Now we just need a few accountants to have a go....

what's the point of arguing if nobody pays for my lawyer's expenses? (for Starters, i wouldn't agree with every Detail my colleague laid out above concerning the "Werkvertrag" under Swiss Law)

on an even less serious note, it must be something about Karma if the two lovely companies that brought us JA:BIA sue each other and blow their jewgolds on lawyer's expenses. Broken promises and stuff. See how that feels, guys?
Yeah i know:

Indeed. There was no shortage of damnations of both entities and now it actually has happened.

 

[Gulnar]

Can't you solve it in a codexian manner? We throw both the whole bC and Cp staff in a pit, we throw a single knife in the middle, and the one who get out get to have the ip and the game?

 

[Metro]

I passed the bar in Louisiana so I had to study the French civil code. Thus I am an expert at German law like ikaranrnarnarikiikoikomygrandmaknowsyourgrandma.

- one party has a basis for a claim
- that this basis is endangered by the actions of the other party
- that there is a probability of harm
- and that this percieved harm will not be easily repaired/recompensed for.

Just for information sake this is basically the same standard for preliminary injunctions in the US.

 

[Infinitron]

Metro is just a simple country lawyer.

 

[Murk]

As Volourn would say, stop the lies ffs

Half of this thread:

The other half:

 

[Dhralei]

I think publishers and developers would rather make an "Entwicklungsvertrag" in which exists also the question of "Entwicklungsrisiko".

Could be. The "Entwicklungsvertrag" (development contract) isn't a contract type that's codified under the Swiss civil code. The nearest I can come to at a guess for the contract between cp/bc under Swiss law is the Werkvertrag assuming money was exchanged between the parties for the creation of something to specification.

Would the primary characteristics of the development contract be an obligation to develop a product/program in exchange for money where development risk is taken into account? I guess it might be called a "Innominatvertrag" over here, that is a contract that doesn't fall under a specific codified form of contract but that includes parts of different types of codified contracts as well as including some other stuff no one has any idea about in order to confuse everybody from the lawyers upto the judge about what the hell they have before them:D In cases of such frankenstein contracts courts here would tend to say "well the disputed contract mostly resembles/has a lot of elements of this codified contract, so let's use the rules set up for that and see what the law says about which sucker has to foot the bill for the agreement going to hell".

Whatever contract type was signed though, it ultimately means squat if the parties can't agree on some dispute settlement between themselves. I'd be the first to admit that court proceedings just aren't that good at getting the parties to sit down and hammer out a workable solution to anything.

 

[Metro]

Metro is just a simple country lawyer.

 

[Monty]

Metro is just a simple country lawyer.

 

[Hegel]

I think publishers and developers would rather make an "Entwicklungsvertrag" in which exists also the question of "Entwicklungsrisiko".

Could be. The "Entwicklungsvertrag" (development contract) isn't a contract type that's codified under the Swiss civil code. The nearest I can come to at a guess for the contract between cp/bc under Swiss law is the Werkvertrag assuming money was exchanged between the parties for the creation of something to specification.

Would the primary characteristics of the development contract be an obligation to develop a product/program in exchange for money where development risk is taken into account? I guess it might be called a "Innominatvertrag" over here, that is a contract that doesn't fall under a specific codified form of contract but that includes parts of different types of codified contracts as well as including some other stuff no one has any idea about in order to confuse everybody from the lawyers upto the judge about what the hell they have before them:D In cases of such frankenstein contracts courts here would tend to say "well the disputed contract mostly resembles/has a lot of elements of this codified contract, so let's use the rules set up for that and see what the law says about which sucker has to foot the bill for the agreement going to hell".

Whatever contract type was signed though, it ultimately means squat if the parties can't agree on some dispute settlement between themselves. I'd be the first to admit that court proceedings just aren't that good at getting the parties to sit down and hammer out a workable solution to anything.

Most certainly it would be an Entwicklungsvertrag (or software Werkvertrag), since you're a fellow civil lawyer, I assume your reaction was akin to mine as soon as the guy posted a pdf related to transborder disputes.
Either way, it's common practice among Italian and German (the closest in terms of remedies) courts (keep in mind I'm specialized in common law and I reside in the States, I might be rusty all things considered I'm not specialized in civil or IP law) to award both emerging damages and the eventual loss of profits (the former is easy to prove, the latter might be harder, though considering the case, as you said, a breach of contract, it won't be too hard).

 

[kazgar]

ITT: I find out the codex is full of actual lawyers.

 

[HiddenX]

ITT: I find out the codex is full of actual lawyers.

And suddenly all things written here make sense...

Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?
A: One's a scum-sucking, bottom-feeding scavenger, and the other's a fish....

Q: What's the difference between a dead dog in the road and a dead lawyer in the road?
A: There are skid marks in front of the dog.

Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a bucket of shit?
A: The bucket.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

When's that interview coming ? @Grunker

 

[Infinitron]

When's that interview coming ? @Grunker

I don't think there will be an interview.

 

[Grunker]

I should probably mention that for my part, I think the Codex news feed should be empty about this for now until an actual evolution in events occur. Until then, now we have statements from both bC and Coreplay, it's gotta be up to them internally to find a solution. I do believe that the whole affair has shown there's plenty of community interest in this game.

I think that if bitComposer and Coreplay do not meet to discuss this game again, both are failing their own community and customer base.

That is my two cents.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

niggers all of them

 

[Monty]

ITT: I find out the codex is full of actual lawyers.

And suddenly all things written here make sense...

I'm a bit confused though... I thought your RPGWatch research had determined that everyone on the Codex was unemployed and lived in their parents' basement?


Unless there are just a lot of legal shows on daytime TV.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

ITT: I find out the codex is full of actual lawyers.

Nah, you can pick out the actual lawyers because we avoid arguing about the law outside of work if it kills us.

 

[Grotesque]