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Conquest of Elysium 4

Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
4,478
Location
Shaper Crypt
You have to realize that there are multiple planes... so the map size is fine. With players derping in the inferno, void, hades or elemental planes,

Which is moot when the game ends when all factions are dead, 80% of them are clumped together and die in the first hour or two of the game.

Does the AI make much use of the planes? I wouldn't mind them so long as factions expand into them, but there's little use for them all you do is fight indies while the AI stays in Elysium.

I DLed a mod to give everyone guardian statues in their home town to keep the AI from dying early, but it's of little use the game decides to spawn 3-5 of them within sight of each other.

jsj58y.jpg

Ach. That's a rather peculiar spawn: I don't know if the settings have changed in the meantime, but I've never seen so much clustering. I often got at best one enemy civ in that area.

"Basic" civs are rather weak and seeing them die to deer and wildlife in the first years is not uncommon: they cheat a bit, but not too much. I've never seen AI make use of the planes, but plane-exploring is best viewed as a roguelike-like experience (as most of CoE is, honestly).

If you want "fun", try stopping a Demonic invasion with a human faction. "Fun" is guaranteed, and the Demons and Devils have rather effective AI routines to obtain their objectives.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,071
"Basic" civs are rather weak and seeing them die to deer and wildlife in the first years is not uncommon: they cheat a bit, but not too much. I've never seen AI make use of the planes, but plane-exploring is best viewed as a roguelike-like experience (as most of CoE is, honestly).

Yeah, I DLed a mod that gives everyone a couple guardians and some crystal shards in their starting base to keep them from dying that way. Still doesn't prevent them from getting their commanders killed.

Think I've gotten Necro down pat. Tartarian Spirits are nasty, just send em out in pairs and steam roll indies. In many ways they really gimp the Carrion at it's scouting roll, since the spirits can just outright conqueror everything they come across scouting. Think I'll try more High Cultist next, but the transition is as rough as having gone from Troll to Necro. Necro might be weak to begin with, but with AE fear and decay/disease spells it's easy to take on cities early to build up hands, I tried the same thing with High Cultist on a map and got wiped out because my guy and his apprentice came without any nifty AE spells and only were one shotting archers while they ate my army.

I DLed a mod to give everyone guardian statues in their home town to keep the AI from dying early, but it's of little use the game decides to spawn 3-5 of them within sight of each other.

It has been a while since I last played, but are you sure you are not spawning too many AI's for the map size? I don't remember having that issue in my games.

I'm using a custom map that is larger than enormous. I'm not sure if the spawn spots are predefined, since sometimes they're very well spaced out while others cluster them into 2-3 locations while leaving a handful of others with wide open room to expand.

When I finally got a good distribution I had a good game that's getting kinda tedious given how spread out I am. Was able to spawn close to the Markgraf and Voice, so took out Voice early while they were weak and Markgraf gave me an old castle to spawn vamps from (DLed another mod that made his start citadel one to help give him a leg up, for necro it winds up encouraging you to pick on the him). Was able to so far get 8 Tartarian Spirits to send out 4 armies to expand, kept some smaller ones to expand elsewhere while my Lich led the main army to beat up the Senator (Needed the Spirits and his army to combine to knock out the High Priestess 240 man army fronted by two rows of giants), but now ran across the Demonologist and his massive with a good dozen demonic casters, most worrying 2-3 fire guys.

Might continue that game, was planning on expanding into Hades before I ran into the latter invading army, which is tedious to face down since I need to muster all my scattered armies together to take it on and my corner of the world is 95% Desert and Mountain (and the Tartarians movement bonus' over mountains seems to be wildly inconsistent at times, dunno why).

You really have to view of things like clumped starts as part of the overall dose of roguelike that's just part of CoE's design. Balancing is not a thing in this game, in every respect, so why should the starting locations suddenly be balanced. Just restart and deal with it.

Also ... bigger maps? What are you, a masochist? On the larger map sizes, if an AI happened to have enough time to build up, it might very well become an insurmountable foe - even on lowly difficulties. Some matchups rely on early taking out your opponent, and it's already pretty darn hard to do that on the current biggest maps.

I really like to play CoE as a bite-size strategy game, on medium maps with five or so enemies of not too high difficulty. This way, most matches tend to play out in ... sometimes only a couple of hours, sometimes a dozen. If I run into a Priest King with a gazillion summons as the Baron or something, I tend to just restart. Most matchups CAN be won somehow (especially since the AI isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer), but it's often just not worth the hassle, imo.

I've never been a fan of short games. My preference has always been long campaigns, ideally ones where I'm stalemated against the AI and have to work hard to tip the balance between them. Liking the Necro, I'd really love to fun into a map where I can play the defensive really well in Elysium while I work to expand into Hades having it neither easy nor overwhelmingly difficult.

I've never seen AI make use of the planes, but plane-exploring is best viewed as a roguelike-like experience (as most of CoE is, honestly).

It's a shame. My hope would be that later editions, or possibly mods, would add different factions to different planes so the conflict is multi-dimensional. I'm reminded of a fantasy scenario for Civ Test of Time that had twenty or so factions fight and expand over four maps, land, air water and underground. I'd think it would be really neat to, say dominate Elysium conquering numerous factions, but then realize that the Pale Ones or Dwarves have dominated in Agartha and have decided to finally try and invade the surface world.
 
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Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,956
Does this game offer a better single-player experience than, say, Dominions 4? I want to play these guy's games, but damn Dominions 4 quickly lost it's appeal when trying to play it as a single-player experience.
 

thesheeep

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I would say yes. Dom 4 doesn't really work without diplomacy (and unfortunately it offers not even basic diplomacy with the AI for whatever reason).
CoE however really has more of a roguelike feel to it and works pretty well alone.

It also helps that single game "sessions" are much shorter.

Basically, in Dom4 your focus is your entire empire with all the little details, while in CoE you focus on maybe one or two main parties that you keep snowballing with (or die trying) and some smaller ones as well as recruitment in between.
 

pakoito

Arcane
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Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,092
Updated today with a new class and other game-changing additions:

General changes
  • New class: Dryad Queen
  • New subsocieties (alternate versions of societies)
  • The current history of Elysium can be read in a library
  • One graph for all gem types
  • Iron/gold/trade bonus tied to the Baron/Senator/King... character
  • New mage offer: Scarlet Sister
  • New druid and forest magic spells
  • Land shape fix
  • Stability fixes
  • Hate desert, love mine behaviors for independents
  • Magic items in statue of Dvalin
  • Fewer para-elementals when summoning
  • Army of Gold & Oak Army only affects friendlies
  • Berserk lost when waking up from sleep
  • AI team improvement
  • Shapeshifters pop with correct shape
  • Perpetual storm cannot create clouds inside walls
  • Possible to level up more mages in library
  • Paladins & Templars got shields
  • Typo & stat fixes
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,022
Location
Platypus Planet
I tried the Dryad yesterday. Pretty fun, as all the forest-based characters tend to be. Interesting to try the Druid out as well and see what new stuff they got. Druid is my favorite class in CoE4 but his summons are pretty sucky.
 
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Aemar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
6,065
Outstanding game on so many levels, despite some of its flaws. The amount of content and things you can do in this game is insane.

Is there a mod that adds a fucking in-game load button? I swear these people from Illwinter must be the most autistic devs ever, for putting all that effort into creating something really unique while miserably failing at adding in even the most basic set of menu options.
 

Citizen

Guest
Outstanding game on so many levels, despite some of its flaws. The amount of content and things you can do in this game is insane.

Is there a mod that adds a fucking in-game load button? I swear these people from Illwinter must be the most autistic devs ever, for putting all that effort into creating something really unique while miserably failing at adding in even the most basic set of menu options.

It's supposed to be played iron-man style, so they removed the load button not to tempt us with savescum abuse :salute:
 

Aemar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
6,065
I know what you mean, I also realize the roguelike mechanics play a major role, but I think they should have added that play style as a separate option instead of making it the only way to play this game. It's a hybrid game after all. They also left out several options like (back to) Main Menu and Restart (not caring that much about the latter though).
 

pakoito

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Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,092
Is there a guide you'd recommend? I know I opened the thread, still I've only played for 90 minutes total, all of them with Baby Ogre and Ma Ogg.
 

Citizen

Guest
Manuals, people. You are supposed to read them!

http://www.illwinter.com/coe4/coe4manual.pdf

Page 66. But you should read the whole damn thing at least once.

Meh. He's talking about about reloading the game to an earlier save when it's already running. Command line method requires you to quit the game and then launch again with a command line option, which is even more hassle than just reloading from the main menu after you restarted
 

Aemar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
6,065
Read a bit on the matter on the COE4 Steam forums. Some people believe the devs simply don't see a point for implementing in-game load or exit-to-menu buttons, something even the most basic games out there have without the need to manually insert command lines. Asking for such basic things shouldn't be an issue when you're charging 23 euros at full price (admittedly I've paid less than 5 euros during the recent Steam sale :lol:).
 

Grimwulf

Arcane
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Vatnik
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Oct 1, 2014
Messages
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Kodex Kommunistic Kastle
You are trying to cheat the game and ask for a convenient method to do so. The short answer is no, you won't get one. It's an Illwinter game.

Why even play roguelikes if you can't deal with permadeath concept?

Is there a guide you'd recommend? I know I opened the thread, still I've only played for 90 minutes total, all of them with Baby Ogre and Ma Ogg.

Why would you need a guide? It's a light-hearted game, which isn't about builds or strategy. It's more about dealing with crazy RNG and having a good laugh while doing so.

Granted, some classes might be tricky to play for beginners (Illusionist), while others require a fair amount of micromanagement (Senator). I suggest taking a Witch for a start. But really, it's all about the flavor. Read the manual, pick the class that clicks with you, and have fun. Death and failure is part of the experience.
 

Citizen

Guest
Is there a guide you'd recommend? I know I opened the thread, still I've only played for 90 minutes total, all of them with Baby Ogre and Ma Ogg.

Reading a guide for a game like this would just kill all the enjoyment. It's about exploration of the world, your character abilites and so on, not some hardcore megacomplex wargame historical simulator
 

Aemar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
6,065
You are trying to cheat the game and ask for a convenient method to do so. The short answer is no, you won't get one. It's an Illwinter game.

Why even play roguelikes if you can't deal with permadeath concept?
I can see you point then. It's a hybrid game, I've treated it primarily as a strategy game with roguelike elements when in fact it's the other way around.
 

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