Editorial Colony Ship RPG Update #7: Iron Tower Studio Design Principles

[Endlösung]

Deus Ex was a fun game

Not really. And Paul is actually immortal. He killed everyone but game bugged out and I had to leave through the window.

 

[Lurker King]

Vault Dweller, you mentioned earlier in another thread that you didn’t have the artistic manpower to invest in text-interactions like the ones in PoE. But that wouldn’t be possible if the drawings were more sketchish and without color? This would still be possible and it would add to the experience.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Depends on the drawing. Anyway, before we even consider it, we need to define the environments, all objects you can interact with (doors, elevators, living quarters, computers, turrets, mechs, etc), and all living things (mutants and critters), so jumping ahead and commissioning a bunch of art right away would be a mistake. Not to mention we'd need to know which scenes to "animate" this way, so all questlines would have to be done and playable (i.e. no changes), so if we end up doing it, we'd have to do it in the last 6 months, which is kind of risky, considering the volume of work.

 

[cruelio]

I want to note that Age of Decadence would, in fact, punish you for picking the wrong stats. If you picked a thief and thought to yourself "I better invest in stealing, sneaking, and disarming traps," you were in for a horrific surprise.

 

[Lurker King]

I don’t know, Vault Dweller. Those melee weapons with energy shields don’t look like a fun combination. Are we talking about shields that appear around the player or what? If they have a fixed location, a melee build would have to leave the protection, punch the enemy, and go back for cover. That doesn’t look feasible without dodge or huge investment on dex.

 

[Quigs]

I want to note that Age of Decadence would, in fact, punish you for picking the wrong stats. If you picked a thief and thought to yourself "I better invest in stealing, sneaking, and disarming traps," you were in for a horrific surprise.

Please elaborate.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don’t know, Vault Dweller. Those melee weapons with energy shields don’t look like a fun combination. Are we talking about shields that appear around the player or what? If they have a fixed location, a melee build would have to leave the protection, punch the enemy, and go back for cover. That doesn’t look feasible without dodge or huge investment on dex.

You throw a gadget on the ground and it emits a force field that takes one square (three if fully upgraded). I don't want the player to wear energy armor as it does nothing but increases damage he can take. Keep in mind that energy shield is not the only gadget and it's not geared toward melee fighters.

Let's look at it another way. You see three guys armed with shotguns and SMGs. You charge them and manage to knock out of the gunners out. What should happen next? Run back to cover, cackling maniacally? Stand there, while they unload their guns into your energy shield and pray that it can absorb all that damage? Neither option is very exciting, so we have to go with something different.

 

[Whisper]

I don’t know, Vault Dweller. Those melee weapons with energy shields don’t look like a fun combination. Are we talking about shields that appear around the player or what? If they have a fixed location, a melee build would have to leave the protection, punch the enemy, and go back for cover. That doesn’t look feasible without dodge or huge investment on dex.

You throw a gadget on the ground and it emits a force field that takes one square (three if fully upgraded). I don't want the player to wear energy armor as it does nothing but increases damage he can take. Keep in mind that energy shield is not the only gadget and it's not geared toward melee fighters.

Let's look at it another way. You see three guys armed with shotguns and SMGs. You charge them and manage to knock out of the gunners out. What should happen next? Run back to cover, cackling maniacally? Stand there, while they unload their guns into your energy shield and pray that it can absorb all that damage? Neither option is very exciting, so we have to go with something different.

Imagine the fun at monastery fight, would bowmen from above proc knockdown or not By the way, i thought blocking was worse than evade, i tried blocker and it feels better.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I prefer blockers myself but many people are convinced that dodgers are better.

 

[Whisper]

I prefer blockers myself but many people are convinced that dodgers are better.

Thing is - you dont need heavy armor for blocker. Light is enough.

I made Spearman blocker with 10 dex and used lightest armor - did not had any problem with survival except first few fights.

Also, i cleared Hellgate without attacking any enemy, they just killed themselves on spear.

 

[Lurker King]

You throw a gadget on the ground and it emits a force field that takes one square (three if fully upgraded). I don't want the player to wear energy armor as it does nothing but increases damage he can take. Keep in mind that energy shield is not the only gadget and it's not geared toward melee fighters.

Let's look at it another way. You see three guys armed with shotguns and SMGs. You charge them and manage to knock out of the gunners out. What should happen next? Run back to cover, cackling maniacally? Stand there, while they unload their guns into your energy shield and pray that it can absorb all that damage? Neither option is very exciting, so we have to go with something different.

You should forget about these gadgets altogether and invest on covers and terrain. How about diferent stances (crouch, stand, prone)?

 

[kazgar]

You throw a gadget on the ground and it emits a force field that takes one square (three if fully upgraded). I don't want the player to wear energy armor as it does nothing but increases damage he can take. Keep in mind that energy shield is not the only gadget and it's not geared toward melee fighters.

Let's look at it another way. You see three guys armed with shotguns and SMGs. You charge them and manage to knock out of the gunners out. What should happen next? Run back to cover, cackling maniacally? Stand there, while they unload their guns into your energy shield and pray that it can absorb all that damage? Neither option is very exciting, so we have to go with something different.

You should forget about these gadgets altogether and invest on covers and terrain. How about diferent stances (crouch, stand, prone)?

Have you also considered ridiculous numbers of indestructible barrels and crates?

 

[Vault Dweller]

You throw a gadget on the ground and it emits a force field that takes one square (three if fully upgraded). I don't want the player to wear energy armor as it does nothing but increases damage he can take. Keep in mind that energy shield is not the only gadget and it's not geared toward melee fighters.

Let's look at it another way. You see three guys armed with shotguns and SMGs. You charge them and manage to knock out of the gunners out. What should happen next? Run back to cover, cackling maniacally? Stand there, while they unload their guns into your energy shield and pray that it can absorb all that damage? Neither option is very exciting, so we have to go with something different.

You should forget about these gadgets altogether and invest on covers and terrain.

Then we'd have to go with the above mentioned barrels, crates, and other cover objects. Instead of placing them all over every "battlefield", why not give you a logical option to place your own cover where you see fit? In general, it's not just about cover, it's about modifying combat conditions to fit your build and style. We have 10 gadgets planned and I think they will work very well.

How about diferent stances (crouch, stand, prone)?

We'll have crouch as it goes well with cover. No prone.

 

[makiavelli747]

Optional content feels better when it's something you discovered or strived for, rather than unlocked through meta-knowledge.

Yup, that is true.
Metagame is fun when you already know all possible options, but discovering those options through meta-knowledge is lame. I got 400hs in AoD and I can say the best parts were those with hidden options. Like with thief's option in raiders camp quest when you can ask Cado for help, option which wasn't seen and available for other backgrounds.

 

[Fenix]

Hiding the strength check wasn't the point, it was more about hiding the location that solely relies on a strength check. If it is the only check required for that content, is it really that important to advertise it to a player that absolutely can't have access to it?

Talking about frustration - you take it as normal reaction, while it isn't.
It is good from the point of money, but bad for design points.

I prefer blockers myself but many people are convinced that dodgers are better.

For me dodge pick isn't in terms "better" or "worse", it is just the way I want to play, it just pleased me more.

 

[cruelio]

I want to note that Age of Decadence would, in fact, punish you for picking the wrong stats. If you picked a thief and thought to yourself "I better invest in stealing, sneaking, and disarming traps," you were in for a horrific surprise.

Please elaborate.

Those skills are worthless even for a thief (with disarming traps the worst offender with a grand total of like five traps in the entire game, all of which can be ignored). I have to wonder if you can even get through the combat heavy, skill check intensive thief guild quests while focusing on those skills. You're definitely out of luck for almost all the optional content.

 

[makiavelli747]

Those skills are worthless even for a thief (with disarming traps the worst offender with a grand total of like five traps in the entire game, all of which can be ignored). I have to wonder if you can even get through the combat heavy, skill check intensive thief guild quests while focusing on those skills. You're definitely out of luck for almost all the optional content.

Thief with high dex/per, sneak, traps, lockpicks, steal, xbows and crit is perfect for whole TG questline.
At the end I had all 7s in all those skills, did Arena and most other fights.

 

[Severian Silk]

Just one question: Is it confirmed that there will be Teleporting Space Christians in this game?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I want to note that Age of Decadence would, in fact, punish you for picking the wrong stats. If you picked a thief and thought to yourself "I better invest in stealing, sneaking, and disarming traps," you were in for a horrific surprise.

Please elaborate.

Those skills are worthless even for a thief (with disarming traps the worst offender with a grand total of like five traps in the entire game, all of which can be ignored). I have to wonder if you can even get through the combat heavy, skill check intensive thief guild quests while focusing on those skills. You're definitely out of luck for almost all the optional content.

They aren't worthless and yes, you can. Quick guide

Q1: pay the guards (pay less with Trading skill) or you can do a pure thief quest to retrieve the promissory note from Kaeso's house or you can steal the mandate from the guards (high steal check) or forge the mandate with Lore
Q2: steal the ring (lowers speech checks), send the shipment to your guild's warehouse, then steal the crates or use explosives (Traps) to wipe out the guards (three outcomes based on your Traps level)
Q3: there are quite a few options there based on how you handled Q1 but here is one: if you retrieved the note, the guards will clear the mob for you, convince the gate guards to let you through, then sneak past the mercenaries.

Optional content in the first chapter:
- sneak into the mine (the hardest quest in the first town), lockpick the chest, steal the tube and report back
- ask Cado to deal with the raiders, steal the goblet (another pure thief quest) he wants as a payment
- infiltrate Antidas' palace (very easy with a thief)
- steal Camilla's jewels
- handle the pickpocket gang differently and send Livia to Cado
- handle the thugs differently and make them pay you
- sneak in and steal Aemolas' gold without anyone's noticing

 

[Fenix]

Looks like superior shit comparing to Loremaster.

 

[Jaedar]

- sneak in and steal Aemolas' gold without anyone's noticing

Huh. I had no idea this was possible. Was this something you added in a patch?

Also cruelio is wrong, steal and sneak are alright skills (but iirc, like speech skills never something to advance past 6 pretty much). Traps otoh, always seemed a waste to me. Too few uses and there's iirc always an alternative that depends on a more general skill.

 

[Vault Dweller]

- sneak in and steal Aemolas' gold without anyone's noticing

Huh. I had no idea this was possible. Was this something you added in a patch?

No, that was the original design. Your options there are:

- snipe them from the distance if you have a scoped crossbow
- charge and kill them the old fashioned style
- sneak and steal, if get caught taken to the leader (i.e. not death screen), if make noise a raider comes to investigate, you can kill him with a critical strike, take the gold and leave.
- tell them to fuck off, claiming Esbenus sent you (the raiders leader who kidnapped a noble near Teron)
- lead them to Aemolas, then either walk away or help Aemolas kill them

Also cruelio is wrong, steal and sneak are alright skills (but iirc, like speech skills never something to advance past 6 pretty much).

There are a lot of high level speech checks.

 

[Whisper]

Q3: there are quite a few options there based on how you handled Q1 but here is one: if you retrieved the note, the guards will clear the mob for you

They wont if you have low pers or streetwise. Not that it is much of problem, mob fight is surprisingly easy, 3 badly equiped guys and you have 2 allies.

 

[Whisper]

Optional content in the first chapter:
- sneak into the mine (the hardest quest in the first town), lockpick the chest, steal the tube and report back
- ask Cado to deal with the raiders, steal the goblet (another pure thief quest) he wants as a payment
- infiltrate Antidas' palace (very easy with a thief)
- steal Camilla's jewels
- handle the pickpocket gang differently and send Livia to Cado
- handle the thugs differently and make them pay you
- sneak in and steal Aemolas' gold without anyone's noticing

Is it intentional that Thief path allows most goodies out of it? You get much more checks and most of them are very beneficial. Like in Maadoran you can ignore fight for Miltiades life with thiefs, you can pass Hermon's gang and you can wipe with Hermon people gang to Abyss.

 

[Lurker King]

I was trying to post a link with the concept art of the colony ship game on this thread, but Infinitron won't let me. If anyone is interested, you will find it on the Iron Tower ghetto sub-forum.