Game News Colony Ship RPG Update #5: Making a New RPG, Combat and Stealth

[Excidium II]

Most people who've never been artists or writers think they're cake jobs (including naive amateurs who aspire to be easy-street artists or writers), and in the sense of not being backbreaking, sweaty labor, I guess that's true. It's pretty common though for people to try to get artists or writers to work for peanuts, so imagine trying to make that your career.

It's easier to freelance than some other careers, and peanuts in first world is fortune in third world.

 

[Blaine]

It's easier to freelance than some other careers, and peanuts in first world is fortune in third world.

Yeah, I know we've got Russians and Brazilians and such reading this forum.

Here in the Kwan, in some places, a pack of fucking smokes costs like $15. This place is insane, don't forget. Most amateur artists will probably end up making barely minimum wage though even doing $100 commissions fairly regularly, unless they get a lot of them.

 

[Sensuki]

A pack of smokes cost $30 in Australia, and possibly soon to be higher. Smokers are an easy target for tax because these days the majority of people here dislike it.

 

[Blaine]

Yeah, but a pack of 30 AUD costs $15 USD.

 

[Mustawd]

Cons of being an artist:

1. Like Blaine said, to get paid good it takes considerable practice to get to a good level. So you can either a.) work to make money, but your skills don't get better, b.) work for 3 years or so to get really fucking good but make $0 money, or c.) a combination of both which means you never quite make a lot of money nor get better as quickly as you'd like.

2. Deadlines...deadlines fucking suck. Artists who make good money have a lot of projects in the air at once. And many artists were never really organized well in school or work to begin with. So you get time crunches where you stay up crazy hours for long periods of time to meet your deadlines because you can't quite manage your time that well, you over promise timewise to win a job (especially when you're first starting out), or you're just plain procrastinating. At the beginning many artists work a shit ton of hours.

3. Again, like Blaine said, you're working on shit you don't want to a lot of times. Or maybe the art director sucks or has completely different opinions on how a certain piece should go:

Spoiler

Artist: Yeah, so I'm thinking this design kind of goes perfectly with not only the theme of the game, but also it's really good design. I mean it makes sense from a design perspective. I'm really liking it, and I think it's a perfect sci-fi piece.

Art Director: Yeah...hmmm...you think you can put some honey comb patterns here?

Artist: Umm...yeah I think so. But why? It doesn't make any sense to have honey combs on some futuristic kevlar anymore than having..I dunno...hearts or whatever. It just doesn't seem to-

AD: Look man, have you played past sci fi games? Halo? Mass Effect? Etc.? They all have honey combs. It's like something expected in sci fi. It makes it more scii fi.

Artist: Sigh....yeah I can put honey combs on it....I guess. I mean it just makes it derivative of everything el-

AD: *irate* Just do it please? Ok? Look, this piece needs to get to the marketing department by tomorrow morning, so I need honey combs on it.

**artists hangs up**

Artist: Ugh, this is the 20th piece with this honey comb crap....

4. A piece might take you one day to make when you're good, but people think of it in terms of other jobs. So to them 1 day is like $20/hr for 8 hours. But the entire reason why it took you 1 day is because you busted your ass for years to get as good and as fast as you are. That's a lot more valuable than some data entry job at $20/hr. It's a pretty high skilled expertise.

5. You hardly get to work on your own stuff. I mean it takes time to create an IP. And that's time taken away from your own projects. And time costs you money.

 

[HoboForEternity]

this is so sexy, this game is so sexy, the ranged combat sounds so fucking sexy, gadget and tools are sexy too

i hope i don't die until i play this game. 2020, here we go!

 

[Excidium II]

Mustawd

Doesn't sound so bad. Drawbacks aren't unique to their job (programmers suffer with all the same issues, for instance), and it's easier to freelance and get paid with stronger currency.

 

[Mustawd]

Discussion of art prices for Magic Cards. They were getting some competition from another card cmopany.

Spoiler

Discussion of freelance art and trying to make it. Listen to how utterly negative and crushed the first guy sounds. He eventually got to the other side a year or so ago, but I'm sure it wasn't easy at all.

Spoiler

 

[Mustawd]

Doesn't sound so bad. Drawbacks aren't unique to their job (programmers suffer with all the same issues, for instance), and it's easier to freelance and get paid with stronger currency.

Yeah well when you start with programming everything looks better.

But actually they're quite similar from my understanding of programming.

 

[HoboForEternity]

all this talk about artists are makes me think about making an outsourcing business, here in indonesia, the minimum wage in Jakarta is ~300 USD/month , alot of beginner freelance artists, got paid alot less than that per art. beginners who work under corporations start from the minimum wage to 125% of minimum wage depending on how big a company is.

so total salary for average entry level artists vary 4000 USD- 6000 USD per year and experts/veteran can go from 10000 USD to 15000 USD if they work in a big, good companies.

now if i can somehow make a firm and scout skilled fresh graduates, and convince western companies to outsource (yay! like how the US outsource animation to south korea nowadays, and production/manufacturing to china) their art production and stuff to here, i can make alot of money and companies can save alot of money (at the cost of native workers, yay capitalism!!) and most fresh graduate will be VERY HAPPY if they can earn 8-10k per year, and work mon-fri 9 - 5.

of course i have to ensure stuff like:

-a platform of communication between the artists and employer
-confidentiality of the material, because obviously most work will be transferred via interwebz
-general business attitude and professionality

guess i can start pitching ideas while the bubble is still small. like, graphic design and art is currently the most popular major in my college right now, and the supply of artists is starting to outweigh the demand for them

 

[Mustawd]

all this talk about artists are makes me think about making an outsourcing business, here in indonesia, the minimum wage in Jakarta is ~300 USD/month , alot of beginner freelance artists, got paid alot less than that per art. beginners who work under corporations start from the minimum wage to 125% of minimum wage depending on how big a company is.

so total salary for average entry level artists vary 4000 USD- 6000 USD per year and experts/veteran can go from 10000 USD to 15000 USD if they work in a big, good companies.

now if i can somehow make a firm and scout skilled fresh graduates, and convince western companies to outsource (yay! like how the US outsource animation to south korea nowadays, and production/manufacturing to china) their art production and stuff to here, i can make alot of money and companies can save alot of money (at the cost of native workers, yay capitalism!!) and most fresh graduate will be VERY HAPPY if they can earn 8-10k per year, and work mon-fri 9 - 5.

of course i have to ensure stuff like:

-a platform of communication between the artists and employer
-confidentiality of the material, because obviously most work will be transferred via interwebz
-general business attitude and professionality

guess i can start pitching ideas while the bubble is still small. like, graphic design and art is currently the most popular major in my college right now, and the supply of artists is starting to outweigh the demand for them

So basically be an agent? That's what it sounds like to me. AKA an Artist talent broker.

 

[HoboForEternity]

So basically be an agent? That's what it sounds like to me. AKA an Artist talent broker.

yup, either a broker, where artists maintain independent relationship with employer (and i get divident from each commission), or a full firm where employer work on contracts and stuff, then i hire the artist, and have your usual corporate organization.

the latter is probably more profitable and marketable, and easier to convince investor with contract deals and all, the earlier is the "good guy" path.

 

[Mustawd]

There's a market for this for sure IMO. Good and cheap art is something everyone wants. Biggest risk is that it takes a lot of initial leg work (aka you need to post on a lot of internet boards that might need artists; like video game, comic, graphic design, Photoshop, blender, and overall art forums), and you need one or two really solid and stable artists to grow the name of your firm.

Quality is key here. You would make money by taking a cut of the pay to the artist and in return setup clients, handle professional communications, and help to coordinate projects (incidentally, all things many artists suck at or do not want to do. They just wanna work). Eventually build up your practice, but 1 or 2 solid prospects will bring continued work and good word of mouth.

It's like any agent. You'll need to get to know your artists well. How much work can they handle? Are they good or bad with tight deadlines? What kind of work are they good at? What kind of work will make them the best money? What kind of work do they want to be doing? Do they want easy, medium, or hard projects? Are they getting burned out? Are they wanting more ambitious projects or wanting something new? Etc. etc. etc.

Totally viable business if you ask me. Like anything lots of risk. However, you'd be the person taking care of the artist's business side of their...well business. So you need good social skills, eye for talent, and know the industry inside and out.

 

[HoboForEternity]

yeah, i agree, but the idea just came like 30 minutes ago lol, when i saw this discussion. with proper work, nurture and communication, this probably can be a thing. aside from the obvious quality and communication management, i have to consider stuff like laws, how would taxes be handled, confidentiality and other stuff.

it will probably take years, but i am young (gonna graduate college this end of the year, working on my graduate thesis atm) and have alot of time to learn, my worry is someone with more money/experience think of it too and started it more effectively >_>

 

[Mustawd]

confidentiality and other stuff.

One thing artists get squirelly about (as well as some less sophisticated clients) are contracts. So some creativity might be needed here (some artists work on the pay me 50% now and pay me the other 50% when it's done mode for small clients, but no contract).

 

[thesheeep]

Well you can't take pictures of three barrelled plasma desintegrator

Or a power glove.

Spoiler

You're welcome.

 

[FUDU]

thesheep YOU BASTARD you ninjad me. Found exactly the same pic.

 

[Parsifarka]

What about the blobber set in AoD world? Any news?

 

[Kev Inkline]

Well, this thread is gloriously derailling to OT, which I appreciate.

In that regard, I am pretty sure most of the human activities imaginable would tend to feel mundane, if you keep on doing them 40+ hrs a week. I mean, I don't think even the professional sportsmen enjoy what they do all the time. Perhaps most of the time, yes, but not every living second.

On-topic: To have 'authentic' weapon pics sounds like Tarn Adams level interest in minutiae to me. Those look very cool though.

 

[Endlösung]

I am too lazy to think about it.

kewljif

Well, I am not an autist who paid 100 bucks for an autist portrait for a childrens game.

I cant think of a tacticool squad game that integrates stealth interesting. Its basically a no brainer. JA you always stealth and never fail. 7.62, you always stealth and never fail for first several strikes. Silent Storm, your sniper never fails. Pillars lol. At best, its a nobrainer, at worst an exploit.

 

[Lady_Error]

It's worth noting that this update reveals a tentative title for the game - The Sunless World. It's not final, but then, neither was "The Age of Decadence" at first.

I have referred FailBetter Games to inXile's trademark attorney. :D

To avoid any legal trouble, how about Stygian World?

sunless
Synonyms and related words:
Stygian, beamless, black, black as night, caliginous, cheerless, dark, dark as night, dark as pitch, darkling, darksome, depressing, drear, dreary, dusky, ebon, ebony, eclipsed, funereal, gloomy, grey, grim, inky, joyless, night-black, night-clad, night-cloaked, night-dark, night-enshrouded, night-filled, night-mantled, night-veiled, obfuscated, obscure, obscured, occulted, pitch-black, pitch-dark, pitchy, rayless, shadowy, starless, subfusc, tenebrious, tenebrose, tenebrous, unhappy, unilluminated, unlighted, unlit

Spoiler

I guess I should add this:

 

[Elhoim]

What about the blobber set in AoD world? Any news?

It's shaping up really well, more news next month.

 

[Infinitron]

It's not a blobber, it's isometric.

 

[Crooked Bee]

You should totally make a Wizardry 8-like game, VD. You could release it before Grimoire, too.

 

[Vault Dweller]

all this talk about artists are makes me think about making an outsourcing business, here in indonesia, the minimum wage in Jakarta is ~300 USD/month , alot of beginner freelance artists, got paid alot less than that per art. beginners who work under corporations start from the minimum wage to 125% of minimum wage depending on how big a company is.

so total salary for average entry level artists vary 4000 USD- 6000 USD per year and experts/veteran can go from 10000 USD to 15000 USD if they work in a big, good companies.

now if i can somehow make a firm and scout skilled fresh graduates, and convince western companies to outsource (yay! like how the US outsource animation to south korea nowadays, and production/manufacturing to china) their art production and stuff to here, i can make alot of money and companies can save alot of money (at the cost of native workers, yay capitalism!!) and most fresh graduate will be VERY HAPPY if they can earn 8-10k per year, and work mon-fri 9 - 5.

of course i have to ensure stuff like:

-a platform of communication between the artists and employer
-confidentiality of the material, because obviously most work will be transferred via interwebz
-general business attitude and professionality

guess i can start pitching ideas while the bubble is still small. like, graphic design and art is currently the most popular major in my college right now, and the supply of artists is starting to outweigh the demand for them

From my experience and observations:

- the bubble is huge; we get quite a few emails from Indian "art houses" (meaning they have to be pretty desperate to email indies like us)
- their market penetration rate is low as there are quite a few western art houses that have established relationships, the biggest being Massive Black - http://massiveblack.com/. You can cold call and email developers all day but you won't get anywhere. Basically those who can afford to hire art houses go for top talent, those who can't afford it browse ConceptArt.org or Artstation https://www.artstation.com/
- when it comes to art, there's no such things as 'poor Indonesian artist willing to do quality art for pennies'; there is a skilled artist on the internet who is experienced with all the digital tools and knows the market value of his work and who just happened to live in Indonesia. This Indonesian girl won conceptart.org's logo competition, for example:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sh...h-Gear-Prizes-and-More!?p=3792567#post3792567

In general, there are thousands of freelance artists on the net. I don't think it's an easy way to make a living. Sure, it's great when you're established and have more clients than you can handle, but any trade is great when you're one of the top guys in your field. It's a great to be a NHL player but they draft one guy out of many thousands of hopeful who spent years training and playing junior teams hoping to get drafted.