Game News Colony Ship RPG Update #1: Setting, Character System

[Excidium II]

The skills are probably a draft but I'd want to ask about the need for six different combat skills all relating to projectile based combat.

Why? Would three or two not be enough? Does this break the vermisilitude(?) vermicelli vermilion city of the games perceived audience?
As you, Vault Dweller said the science skill for example covers a vast variety of things from potato growing to computer usage and I, assume, the theory behind the two.
So why would it be so hard to think that the average human in your setting could not fire an energy weapon and a kinetic weapon that are roughly similar. For example two pistols from the aforementioned categories.

Are these choices Gameplay or setting based?


Also in how many different ways will you handle gameplay outside of combat? CYOA, ship(world)map, location map?

I think it's just gameplay reasons since weapon skills don't need a hundred specific scenarios written to be meaningful + party-based game needing a decent amount of skills for variety in character building.

At least they're inflating the combat skills which you probably just want one or two anyway. In Wasteland 2 for example you have a lot of skills that are just redundant in concept.

 

[VladimirK]

At the same time, there will be some things that can only be done in CYOA so it won't be eliminated entirely. I think it's a good feature (that I enjoy in games a lot) but we probably went overboard with it in AoD

Absolutely no you didn't. In fact, the game would only be better if the dialogues and CYOAs would be bigger with more options.

 

[xxxCatholicKillahxxx]

At least they're inflating the combat skills which you probably just want one or two anyway. In Wasteland 2 for example you have a lot of skills that are just redundant in concept.

Well in my opinion inflation without a purpose is always bad and even though you are only using W2 as an example whataboutism doesn't help.

 

[Excidium II]

At least they're inflating the combat skills which you probably just want one or two anyway. In Wasteland 2 for example you have a lot of skills that are just redundant in concept.

Well in my opinion inflation without a purpose is always bad and even though you are only using W2 as an example whataboutism doesn't help.

I agree with you on that, and I think weapon training is better handled via talents/perks/whatever with more general fighting skills.

But having moar skills is probably why they do it.

 

[Lurker King]

To clarify, sneaking will play a larger role in the game and it shouldn't be handled via text adventure.

I understand, but the CYOA stealth scenes were my favorites. I prefer CYOA to stealth gameplay any day, no matter how well it is implemented.

The skills are probably a draft but I'd want to ask about the need for six different combat skills all relating to projectile based combat.

Agreed.

The easiest way to give the party member an extra bonus is in-game knowledge that would allow you to handle quests differently, access different areas, talk to different people.

It would be interesting if you inserted some lines from NPCs if you ask them to do something for you. For instance, if you asked the scientist to hack a computer, he could say some things like “Hmm… that is a tough nut to crack, but I can handle”, or if you asked the smooth talker to convince someone he could add some things like “Ok, this guy wont’ budge. We better find another way in” or if he succeeded “You are most kind, my good sir. Ok, boss. We can go in now”. In W2 you click on party members to do shit for you and they behave like zombies. This not only sucks, but it feels like cheating.

 

[Roqua]

I don't have the time or inclination to respond to the monkey bleatings of the retards calling me mean and hurtful names in this thread so I will respond with a general blanket statement of fuck you, you fucking monkey idiots.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The skills are probably a draft but I'd want to ask about the need for six different combat skills all relating to projectile based combat.

Because nobody likes a single "Weapon!" skill? Anyway, I was thinking of allowing the player to either generalize or specialize. Either put points in Firearms for general proficiency or in Pistols, for example, to specialize in a single weapon type. With different pros and cons, obviously.

As you, Vault Dweller said the science skill for example covers a vast variety of things from potato growing to computer usage and I, assume, the theory behind the two.

Because different combat skills are about customization and a somewhat different ways of resolving combat (ideally, a pistolero build would play in a different manner than an SMG-totting maniac). There is no reason to duplicate Mechanical skill in a similar manner and allow you to fix a generator in 3 different but essentially the same way.

So why would it be so hard to think that the average human in your setting could not fire an energy weapon and a kinetic weapon that are roughly similar. For example two pistols from the aforementioned categories.

We can assume that shooting firearms is about learning to handle recoil and achieve stability whereas energy weapons don't have recoil but require heavy maintenance and calibration.

It would be interesting if you inserted some lines from NPCs if you ask them to do something for you. For instance, if you asked the scientist to hack a computer, he could say some things like “Hmm… that is a tough nut to crack, but I can handle”, or if you asked the smooth talker to convince someone he could add some things like “Ok, this guy wont’ budge. We better find another way in” or if he succeeded “You are most kind, my good sir. Ok, boss. We can go in now”. In W2 you click on party members to do shit for you and they behave like zombies. This not only sucks, but it feels like cheating.

Agree. Zombie followers are what we definitely want to avoid.

 

[Excidium II]

Anyway, I was thinking of allowing the player to either generalize or specialize. Either put points in Firearms for general proficiency or in Pistols, for example, to specialize in a single weapon type. With different pros and cons, obviously.

That sounds better. I find it p. hard to justify having a lot of different gun skills compared to melee and earlier ranged weapons.

The nice thing though of having more general weapon skills is you can have some offbeat weapons scavenged from working tools and what not, which would make sense in the setting. Not sure in which weapon category a flamethrower would even fit there.

 

[HobGoblin42]

Dunno why, but that Colony ship setting always reminds me of Mars Saga (aka Mines of Titan).

I really liked their combat back then. Here the part regarding weapons:

 

[GarfunkeL]

Seven pages in less than 24 hours? Codex always delivers.

As for skills, any weapon that is "point'n'shoot" is basically the same skill. If you're having specializations, then 2-handers vs 1-handers and recoil vs recoilless can become things but that's it. If aiming for "realism" or verisimilitude, just have marksmanship or accuracy and that's that. You could implement the specializations under the traits, like JA2 does with it's ambidextrous, heavy gunner and other traits.

Personally, I would go for unarmed, melee, throwing and marksmanship - four skills all in all. Then have traits to define further proficiency or specialization under each. You still have four skills to cover with your 4 party members, each is distinctive enough from each from a simulationist point of view, they cover all possible violent encounters and there's plenty of room for a variety of traits.

 

[Excidium II]

^ Strongly Agree

 

[Vault Dweller]

As for skills, any weapon that is "point'n'shoot" is basically the same skill. If you're having specializations, then 2-handers vs 1-handers and recoil vs recoilless can become things but that's it. If aiming for "realism" or verisimilitude, just have marksmanship or accuracy and that's that.

The way I see it, being good with pistols and being good with SMGs are two different things.

 

[Excidium II]

How?

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

I guess you could put knowledge for maintenance for those specific weapon types in the skills.

Edit: Proper handling as well, a well trained combatant would manage recoil better and may reload faster.

 

[Excidium II]

I guess you could put knowledge for maintenance for those specific weapon types in the skills.

Abstractions can only go so far.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How?

Single shot vs burst. One requires accuracy and speed, especially against multiple targets, the other handling recoil and staying on targets.

 

[Excidium II]

That sounds like it has more to do with base attributes than weapon skills.

 

[Tigranes]

Gameplay wise whats the argument for folding them all into Firearms etc?

 

[Telengard]

While handling recoil in isolation is a stat thing, doing so while also staying on target is actually a skill that improves with practice.

IRL, one can also (be like me and manage to) hone their skills with, for instance, long rifles, and still not improve their pistol shooting rank any. Not an unusual occurrence, either, as while pointing and shooting is pointing and shooting, the stance, balance, and play of a heavy rifle is much different than a light pistol.

Gun skill is also supposed to take into account things like trajectory deviation from the short barrels set, wind factor in the low caliber range, and make & model quirks (admittedly less of a factor this century than it was last century).

Whether these things should be a factor in an rpg, though, that always depends on where the game is pitched on the casual/grognard/action/simulation grid factored with what the combat model is representing.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That sounds like it has more to do with base attributes than weapon skills.

I believe that stats should handle basic activities that anyone fast enough or strong enough or tough enough can do. Anything that requires some learning is a skill and weapon handling definitely fits into this category.

http://blog.topspecus.com/pistol-shooting-tips/

 

[Excidium II]

I see.

 

[Kev Inkline]

As for skills, any weapon that is "point'n'shoot" is basically the same skill. If you're having specializations, then 2-handers vs 1-handers and recoil vs recoilless can become things but that's it. If aiming for "realism" or verisimilitude, just have marksmanship or accuracy and that's that.

The way I see it, being good with pistols and being good with SMGs are two different things.

Why would being good with a pistol be a different thing from being good with an energy weapon: pistol, btw? Training in the first skill should make the latter easier to master if anything (same principle, no recoil etc).

 

[Roqua]

If you think about it any energy weapon with a laser sight would be a guaranteed hit for anyone, even toddlers and very low functioning retards as long as they can point the dot on something and hit the clicker. Laser sites would be zeroed to the barrel of an energy weapon versus being zeroed (and needing to be zeroed) to the person like with a rifle. Shooting rifles is completely different than handguns, and shooting an M60 or 240B is not the same as either in any way and focuses on beaten zone and other forms of firing specific to that type of weapon system.

Honestly, realistic or not more is better in my opinion. The more skills the better. The more specialization the better. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be meaningful and significant.

I would love to see something like the underrail system which is kind of like a modified and pumped up 3.5 with an attribute pick every 4 levels and a feat pick every level. I would love to have a feat pick every level. With a million great feats to pick from too, where it is always a hard decision and there are always a lot of other feats I really, really want.

In fact, if there was only one skill that covered all ranged weapons I wouldn't care as long as I could really customize and special with lots of feats.

I know you hate levels but maybe like (taking AoD as an example) every 5 skill points you earn you get a feat point. You seem to dislike good things like fixed cameras and seemingly want to shoot for rpg-lite so you are probably thinking every 50 skill points or so, and to that I say fuck you, good Sir! Five is perfect. Remember, millions of feats. Millions, and all of them meaningful and significant.

And instead of an either or with the psionic or nanobot tech(magic) systems I say fuck it, do both. That's right.

Since you won't see how right I am about 2d, at least give me millions of meaningful and significant feats, and give them to me often, along with both psionic and nonobot magic-like systems.

And as a nod to Ultima 7 you can have the first recruitable companion be a little boy wielding a whip. And as a nod to all the idiots in this thread that don't like good things like I do you should probably make this little boy romanceable. That should make them happy. So they are happy, I'm happy, you get rich. It is winning all around.

 

[Forest Dweller]

VD:

Regarding your stealth idea, have you checked out this game? It looks like it may be doing something similar what you were thinking of.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/243970/?snr=1_7_15__13

 

[xxxCatholicKillahxxx]

Is it too early to ask and get an answer about setting/background details? Nothing set in stone of course but a general idea of some things.

Had the civilization that set the Colony ship project in motion passed the fourth industrial revolution(automated networking industry)? Is there a need for human manual labour? Yes because there has been regression on the ship or?

What of the painstakingly obvious finity of resources on the ship, will this be represented in anyway or form in the gameplay? Say have an effect on the ingame economy.
And talking about economy has the further progress in automated industry been taken into consideration this early(?) in development? Currency, division of wealth and so on.