Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Game News Codex Scoop: Brian Fargo has acquired the rights to Torment (but not Planescape)

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Infinitron, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. skuphundaku Economic devastator, Mk. 9 Patron

    skuphundaku
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
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  2. skuphundaku Economic devastator, Mk. 9 Patron

    skuphundaku
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Dexter set them straight.

    Also, it seems that this news is bringing the Codex' server down.
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  3. Stainless Veteran Arcane

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    Well, it's good news, but I'm rather skeptical that they could surpass the original without Planescape setting. Or even make something on par with it.
    I kinda hate WotC right now. Just on how many licenses of murdered settings are they sitting?
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  4. IronicNeurotic Arbiter

    IronicNeurotic
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    From the rps comments

    :hmmm:
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  5. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    I guess I might as well say it here too.

    Personally, what I loved the most about PS:T was its setting, the concept of different “planes of existence” with different laws of physics, species and cultures one had to interact with and Sigil as a Hubworld to it all (it’s also why I loved similar games like Sanitarium), so while they apparently can’t have “Planescape” as a world set by TSR I very much hope it’ll take place in a very similar setting…

    It’s quite lovely in the way of the creativity and imagination that went behind it as a setting:
    [​IMG]

    And while some others have tried similar, especially when “game designers” are trying to think of a setting instead of working within one that is based on literary work with dozens of writers participating and building upon for several years it often boils down to fit around the gameplay and be a bit game-designey/mostly functional around killing things or some great evil that one has to combat instead of an in-depth world one wants to explore (you can't create one like that in a few months). It also gives you that feeling that there's more going on around you and it's all bigger than you rescuing the world from X and that your laughable Adventure is just a small part of a bigger whole. Another recent pleasant exception was Dark Souls.

    I also remember an older Online comic trying to explain the “planes”: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnD_PS_Comic.asp

    [​IMG]

    And yes, I too believe that it is likely that a lot of the early BioWare games have profited from the Forgotten Realms license and its lore a lot or it might've become a lot more Dragon Age-y.

    Since McComb has actually written parts of it and the Campaign Setting while working for TSR, at least his Wikipedia has these listed I hope he still has similar ideas for a setting and it doesn't become some bland game designed around the concept of whatever "Torment" means:
    “Planescape Planescape Campaign Setting (monster design)
    Planes of Law
    Planes of Conflict
    Players Primer to the Outlands (Audio CD script)
    Well of Worlds
    Hellbound: The Blood War
    On Hallowed Ground
    Faces of Evil: The Fiends
    The Great Modron March”
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  6. LeStryfe79 Drunk Patron

    LeStryfe79
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    Codex 2012 Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    I'm guessing they'll use Wasteland 2's engine and call it The Bard's Tale: Torment....I'm trying to think how the Bard songs would go. Hmmm....


    :5/5::4/5:

    Edit: Checked Wikipedia and I wonder if CMcC invented Bladesinging? :incline:
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  7. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

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    I think it should be an action RPG. It'd be pretty boring if all you did was talk to people. All that item customization/progression has to be good for something and rtwp select all->attack doesn't cut it. The Flames of Vengeance expansion for Divinity 2 (minus end-game escort mission) felt a lot like how Torment should have played imo.
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  8. LeStryfe79 Drunk Patron

    LeStryfe79
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    Codex 2012 Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    That would be cool, but don't you think they would want to make use of the work they did on Wasteland 2? Also, I can't tell you how many times I read Colin's work while listening to something like Jack Off Jill. I had no idea those two were married until yesterday. Thanks for making my head explode, Roguey...:lol:
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  9. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

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    Well it's not like New Torment will be turn-based or use most/any of Wasteland 2's systems and art. They could reuse the camera (assuming it's 3D) and tools like the dialogue editor.
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  10. Zeriel Arcane

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    I really fucking hope it's not 3D, though it probably is. So much of what makes Torment work is the art style, and it simply would not fly in 3D. It's why I lost all interest in Wasteland 2 the second I saw the first screenshot, but have vague hopes for Eternity. Budget 3D is so bad, while budget 2D is basically the same as expensive 2D.
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  11. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    [​IMG]
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  12. LeStryfe79 Drunk Patron

    LeStryfe79
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    Codex 2012 Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    I guess it might be worth their while to do something different as long as it was an attempt to create a new franchise. It could end up that PS:T will be a prequel of sorts to an entirely new type of game with an emphasis on story and agency.
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  13. Zeriel Arcane

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    Produced by talented artists, I mean. You can take 5 of the best 3D artists in the world, and no matter how you manage them, there's no way to get them to make, say, The Witcher 2. The reverse isn't true of 2D, which has been demonstrated again and again. It's no coincidence that DOS era games tended to be much bigger.
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  14. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Talent isn't the only factor. Budget determines whether you have to use tiles or whether you can draw unique backdrops for each area, for instance. BTW, you do realize that Torment's graphics were rendered from 3D models, right?
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  15. LeStryfe79 Drunk Patron

    LeStryfe79
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    Codex 2012 Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    Fargo picked a bad place to show off graphics imho. The combination of gunmetal, noxious fumes, and acid sand gave the game a tacky look that I don't think is representative of the final product. That said, original Wasteland looked like an acid trip, so I think it's only retards who think the graphical style has somehow ruined an otherwise promising title.
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  16. ironyuri Arcane

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    And what is your point, Infinitron? This still looks better than Beamdog's BG:EE.











    :martini:
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  17. Zeriel Arcane

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    Would "2D engine" satisfy you, then? Do you really look at BG 1 and go, "Sure, that art per level cost the same amount of labor and funding per completely unique area as Dragon Age?" I'm pretty sure the developers have even commented on this before, and you can see suggestions of it in terms of the ambition of content in the Project Eternity project at the given funding levels. Not having to do voice-overs, videos, huge marketing campaigns and so forth helps, but art is not a minor element either.

    (It's not necessary to remind me that the character models in some Infinity Engine games were actually 3D. I realize this.)

    On a more personal level I just tend to prefer painterly 2D art to 3D texturing, no matter whether the product starts off in 3dSmax or not.
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  18. Dexter Arcane

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    He might have said it in a stupid way but he's definitely right, there was another long thread about this going on over here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-to-expect-a-2d-isometric-engine-again.76197/

    What it boils down to is...:
    This was Planescape: Torment from 1999:
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    This is what we saw from Wasteland 2 3 months into production:
    [​IMG]

    This is what we saw from Project: Eternity during pre-production:
    [​IMG]

    Pre-Rendered 2.5D with hand-painted elements > RealTime 3D, as you will surely determine yourself reading through that thread and not listening to Skyway xD
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  19. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Oh, there's no question that high quality 3D maps are much more expensive than high quality 2D maps. But that doesn't mean you can make the latter on the cheap. Otherwise, I agree with you.
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  20. janjetina Arcane

    janjetina
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    Torment: Tides of Numenera
    By the "successor to Torment" I'm sure that the developers don't mean "it must have shitty combat, because that's what defined PS:T". So, the combat system can be anything really, so why not turn based combat, fit for an RPG (especially if they can reuse the system from W2 with some modifications, thus cutting development costs in that aspect and being able to focus more on the ones that made PS:T stand out)? On the other extreme, they can use the adventure game approach and do away with combat completely. I would be fine with either approach, or with a system similar to the one in Fallout. I will definitely not support an action RPG, i.e. Popamole: Tournament, but I'm sure the developers know their target audience and they would not have been making a spiritual successor to PS:T, but to something like Alpha Protocol if they wanted to make an action game.
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  21. Crooked Bee Nyadmin Patron

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    Codex 2014 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    They'll probably make it RTwP to cash in on the "Infinity Engine games" namedrop like P:E did.
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  22. Zeriel Arcane

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    Okay, so we're just misunderstanding each other's lingo, then. I'm talking "modern era cheap", i.e cheap in comparison to the average AAA game (since I consider Planescape Torment, Project Eternity, etc, to be in the AAA category at least in terms of gameplay or storyline).

    Also, Dexter nailed what I'm saying entirely. I'm not dogmatically opposed to 3D--just the results we always get from it. If every decently-made 3D game were as pretty as those PS:T screenshots I'd be fine with it. As much as people hate it, Diablo 3 is a good example of where art direction turns shitty 3D into something that actually looks quite nice. For whatever reason, though, the end result is usually face gen disaster zone.
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  23. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    I agree, there's probably no chance of this being TB. The question is, will they use Eternity's engine or modify Wasteland 2's?
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  24. Brother None Prestigious Gentleman On the line for InXile

    Brother None
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    Eh? That's the same engine.
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