Snorkack
Arcane
Yes, the kickstarter for 2nd printing recently finished and it is supposed to be widelyavailable again in september/october. Pricetag still around 100$ I guess.
So here's my opinion on co-op board games: I love them, but I hate pure co-op games. I need for there to be some hidden information and objectives, possibility for traitors and betrayals, and therefore bluffing while we co-op, for the game to be interesting to me. I play with people to play the people, not the board. Anybody else feels the same?
I feel that pure co-op games are basically just a question of playing the board optimally. They're mechanical, just do the math type of shit. And so the game falls into some patterns: everyone plays every move by commitee to ensure optimal play, or some motivated guy is ahead of everyone on the optimal calculations, and just calls the optimal moves while others follow. In both cases, your moves aren't really yours. There's no reason to go against an optimal move, no personal objective that differs, so there's no social conflict there, no arguing for my move instead of yours, it's just an ocean of bland that reduces 3-6 minds to one. All there is to go against optimal moves are mistakes, rather than intentional player-engineered crises. Pure co-op games are basically single player games where someone thought it would be fun to split the player's actions amongst multiple people.
I don't think it would help much. One player would still boss the other around, and the game would just feel too easy.So here's my opinion on co-op board games: I love them, but I hate pure co-op games. I need for there to be some hidden information and objectives, possibility for traitors and betrayals, and therefore bluffing while we co-op, for the game to be interesting to me. I play with people to play the people, not the board. Anybody else feels the same?
I feel that pure co-op games are basically just a question of playing the board optimally. They're mechanical, just do the math type of shit. And so the game falls into some patterns: everyone plays every move by commitee to ensure optimal play, or some motivated guy is ahead of everyone on the optimal calculations, and just calls the optimal moves while others follow. In both cases, your moves aren't really yours. There's no reason to go against an optimal move, no personal objective that differs, so there's no social conflict there, no arguing for my move instead of yours, it's just an ocean of bland that reduces 3-6 minds to one. All there is to go against optimal moves are mistakes, rather than intentional player-engineered crises. Pure co-op games are basically single player games where someone thought it would be fun to split the player's actions amongst multiple people.
I disagree, but I sort of see where you're coming from.
I personally love the *concept* of pure co-op games, especially co-op dungeon crawls. Unfortunately, the execution is usually flawed.
This relates to your point about them being "basically just a question of playing the board optimally". For some reason, many game designers seem to think that, to compensate for the lack of an opposing player, they have to make their co-op games brutally hard to beat. And that definitely contributes to the issue of the "alpha player" as well as the games feeling more like a puzzle than a dungeon crawl (both Descent 2.0 and the D&D Ravenloft games are guilty of this).
I think scaling back the difficulty would better enable the players to pursue more varied paths to beating the game and would also allow the alpha players to relax a bit since they won't feel as much need to micromanage everyone else in order to achieve victory.
That would make all co-op games casual games. No need for optimal play, just play and win. So, why play at all? If you mean that co-op games should be all about the experience and who cares about winning, then sure there's a market for that, but it's not the same type of game at all then. There's also the option of difficulty levels, like in Pandemic, that seems to me a better solution for casuals.I think scaling back the difficulty
Gloomhaven
So I looked this up after you mentioned it and apparently its the best thing since sliced bread but man, is it really worth the price? Is the price likely to drop anytime?
Yes, I find that to be the problem with most legacy style board games. I mostly play them with the same group I used to play p&p with.Gloomhaven
So I looked this up after you mentioned it and apparently its the best thing since sliced bread but man, is it really worth the price? Is the price likely to drop anytime?
I watched a playthrough, and it looks fun. Not sure if I'll find a group that'll sit down and play through an entire campaign. The price also seems a bit steep.
Yes, I find that to be the problem with most legacy style board games. I mostly play them with the same group I used to play p&p with.Gloomhaven
So I looked this up after you mentioned it and apparently its the best thing since sliced bread but man, is it really worth the price? Is the price likely to drop anytime?
I watched a playthrough, and it looks fun. Not sure if I'll find a group that'll sit down and play through an entire campaign. The price also seems a bit steep.
Considering the price tag you should just wait another two or three months until 2nd print hits the market. What you're seeing on ebay et al. right now is the effect of 'demand >> supply'.
Any opinions on Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective and the different versions of it ?
Looking for a fun digital pass-and-play type game that's co-op friendly to play w/ GF. She likes Talisman, but it's competitive, we're trying to find something co-op that we can play on the computer.
I hear a digital version of Pandemic will be available on Steam in a couple months, are there any others out right now?
Looking for a fun digital pass-and-play type game that's co-op friendly to play w/ GF. She likes Talisman, but it's competitive, we're trying to find something co-op that we can play on the computer.
I hear a digital version of Pandemic will be available on Steam in a couple months, are there any others out right now?
Looking for a fun digital pass-and-play type game that's co-op friendly to play w/ GF. She likes Talisman, but it's competitive, we're trying to find something co-op that we can play on the computer.
I hear a digital version of Pandemic will be available on Steam in a couple months, are there any others out right now?
When you first wrote “pass-and-play”, I imagined you meant mobile, but you also mentioned PC so let’s see.
Kingdom Death Monster is the best coop game I've ever played, bar none. A great campaign system, gorgeous miniatures and deadly showdowns that don't pull any punches. It's kinda expensive, tho.