Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Civilization 5 lead designer Jon Shafer joins Paradox...and gets fired half a year later

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.pcgamer.com/civ-5s-lead-designer-joins-paradox-to-develop-a-new-grand-strategy-game/

Civ 5's lead designer joins Paradox to develop a new grand strategy game
The news was announced at PDXCon in Stockholm, though no details about the game have been revealed.

Jon Shafer, lead designer of Civilization 5, has joined Paradox Development Studio to work on a new grand strategy game. The news was announced at PDXCon today in Stockholm, Sweden, though we were not told the name of the game Shafer is working on, nor any other details about it.

“I’ve been a fan of Paradox’s games for years now, and moving onto the team behind some of my favorite titles is an exhilarating moment for me,” said Shafer, whose new title at Paradox Development Studio is Game Director.

Shafer's former projects include the Beyond the Sword and Warlords expansions for Civ 4, and he's also currently working on At the Gates, a strategy game he funded on Kickstarter and will continue to develop alongside his work with Paradox.
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,945
If they are smart they will release a civ type game with functioning ai and actually give civ some competition.
Most of the budget for civ is spent on actors saying shit quotes and shit graphics,they can easily make something cheap,and they can always make it turn based instead of rtwp.
I mean they did the same thing with cities skylines and the sim city franchise.
 

tsiforb

Learned
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
87
Thought At the Gates had some promise, but 3 KS updates since 2015 and Shafer taking a second job isn't exactly a great sign.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
This is what happens when you ally yourself with Stardock for a time. Everything fails and you finally run away to a proper publisher/developer.
 

Riso

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,249
Location
Austria
Thought At the Gates had some promise, but 3 KS updates since 2015 and Shafer taking a second job isn't exactly a great sign.
I read he also offered refunds but hasn't actually done a single one.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,819
Location
Italy
paradox games can't be fixed, only expanded more and more and more until the fix you needed drowned in a sea of content.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
650
I have to say, reading up on the whole ATG debacle makes Jon look pretty bad. It's one (rather common) thing to spectaclarly miss the release window promised in a kickstarter, but it's another thing entirely to vanish from earth for a year with nary a word, pop back in vaguely citing health issues (anybody can post short notices when not in comatose), promise for it to not happen again only to promptly repeat the notion immediately for another six months, popping in again afterwards and acting as if nothing had happened, presenting a fabulously optimistic release schedule.
Oh, and by the way, you're now working a full time job elsewhere in this industry famous for overtime and crunch.

I'm glad I am no backer.
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,945
People should really learn from Chris Roberts.
Never release a game,just offer useless expensive features which makes suckers feel special("oh i have a special horse,that was worth my 1000 bucks")and pay some schmuck to make a nice looking trailer with game play that will never happen.
Oh and also make up false reports on the game status,it is not like gamers have any clue how to read anyway.
After a couple of years,just straight up abandon it under the guise it was too ambitious and with a "thanks for backing the project message".
In fact it could become the new norm like dlc become the norm.
The ark evolved dlc was a brilliant move and he can just keep adding dlc instead of finishing the game.
Hell with the focus on "games as a service" kick stater dev's can easily capitalize on that fad.
 
Last edited:

Ludovic

Valravn Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
71
Location
The Cold North
Kickstarter is a trap for developers and customers alike. When developers fail at a traditional business venture, they usually just lose time and some savings, but gaining experience. If there are professional investors or a publisher involved, these will also usually be a tremendous help in actually shipping something, even if their interference sucks for the developers and the changes they mandate may not be what customers want. At the end of the day, it helps get the game out there. Many will suck, but some will be great.

A Kickstarter-funded project on the other hand has trouble changing scope as backers have been promised a quite specific product, and have already paid. Additionally, the stupid "backer tier" concept makes it worse, as SUPER-SAYAN-GOD-KING-EMPEROR backers have been promised their special shiny avatars with double xp, making it kind of hard to remove xp as a mechanic. Not to mention the stupidity of giving SPECIAL-SNOWFLAKE-BUT-NOT-LOADED-KING tier backers exclusive content, that would be much better just being part of the base game. Then there's the stretch goal scope trap, which does have the upside of being a really good excuse when the project fails to deliver ("If only we didn't have the stretch goals, we'd have delivered. Shame on you backers for giving us so much money and making us late/fail.").

It also seems to be a recurring theme that KS game developers get super-stressed, depressed and end up hating their projects, as it turns out having real investors is actually preferable to a fanbase that has even more unrealistic expectations for the final game than the hype the Kickstarter was funded on. So the developers fail to deliver, get stressed/depressed, tarnish their reputation and the fans never get a game.

Crowdfunding is not fundamentally flawed, but it's an incredibly bad primary funding model for a freshly formed games studio. Shame on developers who present crowdfunding as a variation of pre-ordering (with "no refunds" in small print), and shame on consumers who don't care to look past hype and then get upset at the rather obvious risk that they'd get absolutely nothing in return for their money.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
Early Access really seems to be a much better "crowdfunding" method for small/new developers than Kickstarter. The need to make a playable prototype that's actually fun to play in order to recruit backers gives a much needed reality check for the developers, and helps bring the scope of the project down to something manageable. It also keeps hype somewhat in check since gamers can see what they are getting and are less likely to imagine that they will be getting their dream game, though of course some gamers are more inclined to get hyped on a fantasy than others.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
650
It also seems to be a recurring theme that KS game developers get super-stressed, depressed and end up hating their projects, as it turns out having real investors is actually preferable to a fanbase that has even more unrealistic expectations for the final game than the hype the Kickstarter was funded on. So the developers fail to deliver, get stressed/depressed, tarnish their reputation and the fans never get a game.

You're cutting these guys a ton of slack. Isn't it the case that the "unrealistic expectations" you speak of are fuelled by the very pitch as brought forward by whoever launched the kickstarter?
It's quite reasonable for people to get a bit unruly when the date they were promised their product would ship is one, two or more years in the past in my opinion. Often enough, only a few backers will even raise an eyebrow when a product ships very late - as long as it ships at all.
Even drastic differences between what was promised and what is delivered are often accepted without much of an uproar. Many backers will even accept a total loss with a shrug, even if it technically violates the Kickstarter TOS.

In this specific instance, we had a proven developer, who had already shipped prolific games in the past, and worked both for Firaxis and Stardock. He appeared to have a pretty clear vision of his product, already had a working prototype and only then launched his KS.
And, again, I don't think anyone would have made much of a hassle about delays, but he chose to pull off a Sean Murray and disappear for good for an entire year, that's not cool. Things go wrong, we're all humans, but this practice of total radio silence is like when you hide under the bed from your parents as a three year old who has made a mess in the living room and doesn't want to face the consequences.
 

Ludovic

Valravn Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
71
Location
The Cold North
Yeah, radio silence is not a good thing. It's hard to interpret as anything but arrogance or psychological issues (e.g. avoidance triggered by stress). I've been late on occasion with updates to my own Early Access project, but then I try to make up for it with a short notification about what's going on. Withdrawal is never a good idea and any temptation to seek shelter "to focus" should be resisted.

I think a lot of developers who were "sheltered" in AAA studios vastly underestimate what it is like to personally interact with backers/fans/customers and the psychological impact of being personally responsible for any delays and disappointments. Even the awful crunch and job security issues which are common in the games industry are in a different league. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's ok to go radio silent - but it's understandable, as many people do not have the mental fortitude and/or integrity to admit failure on such a scale. It sucks for everyone involved.

In a few cases, and I'm not saying this is one, because I don't know much about it, there is a certain level of karma. Like when a designer who used to be able to deflect responsibility for failure onto producers, publishers, co-developers, etc. is "exposed" as being more gifted at marketing than at game design.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,052
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If they are smart they will release a civ type game with functioning ai and actually give civ some competition.
Most of the budget for civ is spent on actors saying shit quotes and shit graphics,they can easily make something cheap,and they can always make it turn based instead of rtwp.
I mean they did the same thing with cities skylines and the sim city franchise.

Yes, it would be great to finally see another big developer tackle the 4x genre, Civilization is the only historical 4x series out there, it's about time someone gave them some competition.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom