Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

[Infinitron]

I keep seeing these interviews with Avellone alluding to issues at Obsidian. Does anyone know why he wasn't in a more senior position at Obsidian? I mean, he was a co-founder and he was almost certainly the most experienced writer on Pillars. So why wasn't he "Creative Director" or "Lead Narrative Designer"? Why didn't he have more creative control?

Read our interview again and pay attention to the part about "family issues".

 

[Prime Junta]

I keep seeing these interviews with Avellone alluding to issues at Obsidian. Does anyone know why he wasn't in a more senior position at Obsidian? I mean, he was a co-founder and he was almost certainly the most experienced writer on Pillars. So why wasn't he "Creative Director" or "Lead Narrative Designer"? Why didn't he have more creative control?

He was Creative Director

 

[supervoid]

`

 

[Infinitron]

Don't be afraid of the length, the actual talk is only about half an hour long. The rest is Q&A.

Jedi Master Radek was a bit inaccurate. Chris didn't say he was working on a project that he was going to announce this year. He said he was working on several unannounced projects that would hopefully be revealed this year. So it's not some Big Avellone Game.

 

[Immortal]

I liked stat rolling because it was a tunning mechanism that allowed you to cheat as much or as little as you wanted.
The thing is.. in BG1 / BG2 you don't even need a good roll because with proper stat dumping you can usually just make a perfect character.

Basically.. I used to swear by stat rolling but slowly Point Buying has won me over.

 

[Infinitron]

Interesting - Chris repeats Josh Sawyer's claim that systems designers are hard to find. He talks a bit about Obsidian's hiring exam for systems design, with example questions.

 

[Infinitron]

Avellone is involved with Expeditions: Viking: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/viking-newsletter.106611/#post-4575511

 

[animlboogy]

Rolling for stats is only interesting if you're expected to choose your class after you've received your stats; something many people don't want to do. If you do do it, you souldn't then be allowed to move points to other stats and the dice should probably be fudged so that the point total is even - no point sitting for forty minutes pressing reroll in BG1 until you get 90+ total stats.

Personally I like the idea for a PnP session if you have a group who's more interested in roleplaying than character building, can't see a scenario where it works better than point buy in a video game because character building is so important to people.

This is one of those things where it's obvious that the kind of game I'd like to play is so out of sync with what most RPG players want. I'm all for rolling once and having to stick to it and build a character around that as you go... and I'm keenly aware that nobody else wants to do that.

I can't imagine anybody on either side of this fence really wants to sit there and roll for hours like in BG, though. That's just an inane mechanic. I still don't understand why that wasn't a point buy system.

 

[Lhynn]

Avellone is involved with Expeditions: Viking: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/viking-newsletter.106611/#post-4575511

Great, maybe he can teach them how to make their games fun and worth playing. Thats a useful skill to have as a game developer.

 

[Fairfax]

Feargus's panel got a short summary from Infinitron, but MCA didn't.

 

[ArchAngel]

Avellone is involved with Expeditions: Viking: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/viking-newsletter.106611/#post-4575511

Great, maybe he can teach them how to make their games fun and worth playing. Thats a useful skill to have as a game developer.

 

[Infinitron]

Feargus's panel got a short summary from Infinitron, but MCA didn't.

Don't give me that crap.

If anything, I wrote more about the actual substance of Chris' talk. Feargus' talk just had a lot more actual gaming tidbits to extract (which weren't really related to the topic of his talk which was various management advice). If Chris had more to say about actual games he was working on, I'd post about that.

 

[Sensuki]

On the other hand, I thought what you wrote in the newspost was perfect

 

[Fairfax]

Feargus's panel got a short summary from Infinitron, but MCA didn't.

Don't give me that crap.

If anything, I wrote more about the actual substance of Chris' talk. Feargus' talk just had a lot more actual gaming tidbits to extract (which weren't really related to the topic of his talk which was various management advice). If Chris had more to say about actual games he was working on, I'd post about that.

If you say so.
I'll see for myself soon.

 

[Malignant Manor]

Baldur's Gate cheated and had whole set of stats instead of rolling for each stat and the totals were normalized within a few points of each other. Wizardry games are brutal with their variability and made you redo the entire character creation in order to reroll. Classes you can play in both games are restricted by stats. Wizardry had stat gains so you could theoretically switch to any class when the stats were high enough even with low rolls. When stats matter and are random, people will gain the system depending on how easy it is vs the reward.

There are low level "challenges" where people cheat their ass off by exploiting cheap mechanics and reloads to gain favorable outcomes.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Damn. That was harsh. Also a lot of insights into Obsidian's design process.

I think the animosity with Josh Sawyer that many here suspected can be pretty much inferred from this video.

 

[Prime Junta]

jesus I would hate to work on a project run on MCA's principles... hierarchy all over the place

 

[Sensuki]

I think the animosity with Josh Sawyer that many here suspected can be pretty much inferred from this video.

Yeah when he was talking about the bit about walking into your office angry I couldn't help imagining it as the reaction that happened when they read his submitted companion work for the first time.

 

[Beastro]

jesus I would hate to work on a project run on MCA's principles... hierarchy all over the place

You even listen to what he said along with that? I'm only 11min in aa already get it.

Guy seems to like initiative and outspokenness, he just wants a clear delineation of rank and people who everyone can immediately go to to pass things along. He just wants shit laid out and everything made clear while the projects being built to prevent easily avoidable drama later on.

Reading between the lines, sounds like Obisdian's runs on a lot of shit being assumed and left unsaid, they work out easily avoidable shit as things go along ad hoc while certain leaders tell everyone below them to shut up and do what he wants.

If that's true, then Obsidian is full of talented people that are constantly undermined by their poor professional habits and lazy discipline.

IMO, that perfectly explains why they produce such buggy games.

Edit: The more he talks the more it sounds like Obsidian are a bunch of amateurs. I use that word not in the typical sense, but what he talks about brings to mind how members of the forum would act like if they decided to get together and make a game, a lot unsaid and a lot being themselves and not employees having to work together in a structured, professional matter.

I get the feeling a lot of their head guys got lucky getting to this point in their careers and could do better, but because they survived their habits remain in place so they don't see a reason to change.

 

[Infinitron]

jesus I would hate to work on a project run on MCA's principles... hierarchy all over the place

What's funny to me about this talk is that it must have been given in front of an audience full of seat-of-their-pants Eastern European indie devs. And he's talking to them about these corporate-like hierarchies. You can see how when it was over a couple of them immediately pushed back basically saying "But how is this relevant to us, dude?"

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah the Q&A was also funny to listen to

 

[Prime Junta]

jesus I would hate to work on a project run on MCA's principles... hierarchy all over the place

What's funny to me about this talk is that it must have been given in front of an audience full of seat-of-their-pants Eastern European indie devs. And he's talking to them about these corporate-like hierarchies. You can see how when it was over a couple of them immediately pushed back basically saying "But how is this relevant to us, dude?"

I think it's also reflective of work culture. Where I'm from organizations tend to be flat and decisions tend to be taken by consensus within a small team responsible for a particular area. You have distinct roles of course, but you generally speaking don't have anyone below the CEO who is the one who "makes the calls." You want to lead? Make a proposal and sell it to the team. Want to become a leader? Make more of them, and eventually the team will come to you for advice.

This model has its problems too of course; notably it's based on a culture of trust and self-direction, and if you don't have that, it will quickly collapse into chaos, infighting, and lack of direction. But when it works, it works really well.

tl;dr I really, really dislike clearly-defined multi-level hierarchies like the one in MCA's presentation.

 

[Darth Roxor]

whoever thinks narrative designers shouldnt be under system and level designers should commit sudoku

 

[Popiel]

tl;dr I really, really dislike clearly-defined multi-level hierarchies like the one in MCA's presentation.

Degenerate Westerner.

 

[Prime Junta]

whoever thinks narrative designers shouldnt be under system and level designers should commit sudoku

Why not just not put all of them in a team and let them work it out together?

Spoiler

No gods! No masters!