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Butthurt gamer blog

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
thedeadlymoose, since you bothered to actually reply, and seem shockingly reasonable, I'll try to explain the reason for all this apparent hatred, because you seem slightly surprised by it, despite admitting to having lurked somewhat around these parts.

Part of the reason is that the Codex just operates this way. People insult each other over differences of opinion, and life goes on. The particular idea you're championing doesn't necessarily make you a target of persecution more severe, than, say, a staunch Call of Duty fan. Actually, ardent fans of shitty games are treated way worse than LIBRULS around these parts, as evidenced by the likes of gaudaost.

Codexers don't really hate you, or the fact that you're gay (or LGBTQIA; what the fuck does the "I" stand for anyway? I swear this acronym gains a new letter every time I see it used). We have tranny and gay members (even a gay moderator who called you butthurt in this thread's title), and a whole lot of people who can easily be described as "queer", for lack of a better word. They don't even really hate the fact that you want your preference to be represented in games where it makes sense to do so.

The thing that Codexers hate, truly and viciously hate, is the decline, the process of games becoming worse and worse as time goes on, of them turning into awful interactive movies with cover-shooter segments, terribly dumbed down and pandering to the lowest common denominator at every point. This is what we actually care about. So when you speak out and ask for representation, it is interpreted as "Fuck good gameplay, and fuck good writing, and fuck good artistic design. What's important is to put in more gays.". The existence of Bioware games, which in many ways perfectly embody the things we hate, does not help one bit.

And then you also ask for this in the context of the new Torment, the spiritual sequel to arguably the Codex' most beloved game. So, in our eyes, you're not even content with turning Bioware games into glorified dating sims; no, you need to come over and try to fuck over one of the few games actually produced with us as the target audience in mind. And, in a general sense, this isn't even an overreaction. It's the reason why any suggestions about romances get shot down so hard on Torment's uservoice. We've seen where pandering to people who think romances are important leads, and we do not like it one bit.

With all that out of the way, I would urge you to continue posting. I think you will be quite surprised by how easily you'll fit in. This is a place created with despicable deviants in mind after all. :smug:
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
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Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
One day, idiot libruls will learn the difference between actual homophobes (most Codexians aren't, in my experience) and people who simply don't wish for their favorite computer games to be used as delivery systems for in-your-face "raising awareness" propaganda. I don't want overt heterosexual romance in Torment, either. Generally speaking, I shouldn't even know what the characters' sexual orientations are, nor care to know.

Folsom Street Fair? No problem. I'd attend, though not as a "participant". Gay men or women kissing? Don't care. Gay marriage? Of course. Equal rights? Absolutely. Prosecution for homophobic hate crimes? Sure. I know it's cliche and a bit of a cop-out to say so, but I have numerous gay friends, and have always simply treated them like people... not to mention my bisexual sister.

Just kidding—libruls won't learn. Anyone who doesn't want exaggerated gay sex rubbed right in their faces to prove how HOLY SHIT TOLERANT we all are must be a homophobe.
:bro:

This.
 

Jick Magger

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
5,667
Location
New Zealand
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria
I'm not homophobic, faggot.

In all seriousness, EA's treatment of the LGBT community as a smokescreen to cover up SimCity's disastrous launch is fucking disgusting. It's obvious they're only giving them the time of day because they're a new, untapped consumer base to bring in mad dosh.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,660
I'm not homophobic, faggot.

In all seriousness, EA's treatment of the LGBT community as a smokescreen to cover up SimCity's disastrous launch is fucking disgusting. It's obvious they're only giving them the time of day because they're a new, untapped consumer base to bring in mad dosh.
Yes, they were deflecting, but as I've mentioned before, EA headquarters is located near San Francisco. They give full benefits to gay spouses and cover all counseling/hormone/surgical costs for transpersons. They're giving the time of day to themselves.

(there's also nothing new about queer people)
 

dnf

Pedophile
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
5,885
I'm not homophobic, faggot.

In all seriousness, EA's treatment of the LGBT community as a smokescreen to cover up SimCity's disastrous launch is fucking disgusting. It's obvious they're only giving them the time of day because they're a new, untapped consumer base to bring in mad dosh.
Yes, they were deflecting, but as I've mentioned before, EA headquarters is located near San Francisco. They give full benefits to gay spouses and cover all suicide countermeasures for transpersons. They're giving the time of day to themselves.

(there's also nothing new about queer people)

Fix'd :lol:
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731

If groups of BDSM political advocates were fighting for some big change in the law and slightly half of the U.S supported them, Bioware would be pulling a 180 and be like "oh yes, we have considered BDSM in some of our games. We like to remain a culturally open and progressive company that is always advancing social norms because we are just a altruistic bunch of game developers".

Fuck Bioware.
 

thedeadlymoose

Literate
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
11
tuluse: Fair enough, but there's two points that make me disagree with you:

1. again, I personally enjoy Bioware games, despite them being thoroughly flawed. (And while I absolutely loathe EA, I don't loathe Bioware, and in fact, I like Bioware. Again, despite their flaws.)
2. It actually does affect me whether there are queer characters in any significant work of fiction (though, sure, any individual work of fiction is irrelevant). And Bioware counts as 'significant'.

That isn't an argument, though, just an explanation. Your stance is pretty generally reasonable for someone with your perspective.

People feel like they can praise BioWare and EA just for including gay characters, but when gay characters aren't treated like normal people, it falls apart.

First off, fuck EA. Second off, Bioware has yet to offend me. They've done stupid shit, but I really don't think their treatment of teh gays was worse than their treatment of everyone else (sometimes good, sometimes mediocre, sometimes bad). My personal sensitivites just aren't high enough to get actually offended at every single thing writers/developers get wrong.

Re: Obsidian - no disagreement there.

Of course it was, its bioware. What it was not is worse then the rest.

Don't agree, but can see why you'd disagree.

To your cowboy example I cant even imagine how someone could mis sthe sexuality of a knight who had his horse dressed up all in flowers.

Or the king who made a Rainbow Guard, I know, or the jokes about praying in the tent together, or Loras pining in a hilarious teenager way about candles and sunsets after Renly dies. I know.

But the majority of the old-school fans DID miss this [technically I'm 'new-school' since I jumped on board after Storm of Swords, though years before the TV show], and wouldn't believe it until the HBO show and GRRM confirmed it directly. Several times.

And honestly, it wasn't that ALL these people were stupid. They just didn't expect queer people to exist. And since that enables actual homophobes, that's a problem for me when it's true everywhere [let me repeat that I don't have an issue with how GRRM did it, though; it made perfect sense in his setting, just like the rampant misogyny makes perfect sense in his setting. Personally I'm super tired of people calling GRRM a misogynist because he writes misogynist characters. Didn't you notice the shit-tons of awesome female characters? Fuck! But I digress].

I stll dont understand how someone can be gay, bi, black white green yellow or fuck sheep, wanting to be handled as equal to all the other people and then doesnt get enraged if someone puts this in a game and makes it a selling point, its the same selout as with any other minority and someone who doesnt hate that should be punished by all other people of this minority.

Fair question. Answer: Because it's less enraging than being deliberately or accidentally excluded forever.

It's why politicians usually get a small window for getting away with pandering. It's the lesser of two evils. You can, indeed, get away with giving a starving man food from your trash can, and he'll thank you for it. But when he's not starving anymore, he's going to punch you in the face, and rightfully so.

[Though again, while I can't speak for EA, and in fact can't even think about them without a certain amount of hatred for things totally unrelated to "teh gays", I don't think Bioware is as bad here as everyone claims. Read the end of my post for the other specific complaints that I do have.]

Again, between inExile and Obsidian and the others that will come after, soon the window for getting away with this will close, and a number of people are going to be very, very confused, in the same way that movie execs are getting very confused now that they no longer get any credit at all for including a single stereotypical token black guy. The window is shut.

You seem pretty level headed unlike on your blog where you were pretty much "HAHAHA HOMOPHOBES".

Gotta say I stand by my "HAHAHA HOMOPHOBES" comments, based on some of the comments I got on uservoice, and that until now my blog audience of a few dozen personal friends had all read those comments. :p It may not have been fair, but my audience got the context.

Well, OK, but do you think the intention was to specifically point out that they were in a heterosexual relationship* or just, you know, that's what the writer came up with because it didn't occur to him to make a gay couple?

It was absolutely the latter, and it doesn't make the writers homophobic at all, or "bad writers". This is what confuses me about how people understood my uservoice posts at least. I guess you could draw that conclusion from my blog, but...

...Good writers can miss something. And they can miss it over and over. When this happens, that they shouldn't have missed in theory, that's when you point it out to them. From my POV you're doing them a service. You're helping them make their work less flawed.

The people who take that personally are idiots who shouldn't be writing, and in fact will likely never get anything published because they think editors are "mean". I think it can be taken as fact that the Torment writers are not like this, and therefore even though plenty of FANS were going to be enraged by my suggestion, the writers were never going to be. And they weren't!

It seems to me that you think that if hetero is in homo must absolutely be in as well. What about the writer's vision? What if he has no interest in writing about it because it doesn't really add anything to what he writes?

If the writer's vision is of a fantasy setting where queer people would logically exist, and they don't include queer people, and the cast is very large, then it becomes an issue of "bad writing". In other words, it would indeed add something to what they're writing: an improvement in quality.

Here are a couple counter-examples to hopefully make that clear:

A) A novel/game/etc set in World War II, where queer people were firmly in the closet, and even the mention of 'fairies' being sent to concentration camps was taboo until Kurt Vonnegut pointed it out in Slaughterhouse Five (to great controversy). Not including any obviously queer people at all, even with a cast of thousands, would be totally appropriate.

B) Lord of the Rings. This fantasy setting follows Tolkien's Catholic values [elves, for instance, represent unfallen man, and a conservative version of God literally created the world and is a character in the setting]. For Tolkien, Catholic values included no gays, no sex before marriage, and a bundle of other conservative stuff. In a setting like this, it is perfectly reasonable from a "realism" standpoint that you would not have a single obviously queer character. (It doesn't mean I *LIKE* it, but from a realism standpoint, it's 110% valid, and is not bad writing.)

Those examples are also good examples for not including brown people. For World War II, segregation was fully in place. For Tolkein, he was making a myth specifically about England, land of white people. [I don't like that either, but again, valid & not bad writing.]

I mean that your claim of "I take what I can get" is in the same vein as that about romances because you put so much importance on it as those people put on romances and that neither really have anything to do with gaming or should be a focus for a game developer.

I both agree with you and disagree.

You're right that the devs shouldn't be putting as much importance on this as I am. *I* put a bunch of importance on it solely to plant the idea in their heads. It's perfectly reasonable for a queer dude to like the idea of queer people in a fantasy setting.

I disagree that this has *nothing* to do with gaming. It has nothing to do with the majority of the game, yes. It does have something to do with good worldbuilding, and it matters (to me) because this kind of bad worldbuilding contributes to real-life problems (for me). In other words, it's an issue that's a subset of another issue (good writing). No more, no less. That's it.

In Torment it's slightly more important than it might otherwise be because this is THE writing-focused game franchise.

Here's another counter-example: In a fighting game, it would be so irrelevant as to be absurd - because ALL writing in fighting games is irrelevant enough to be absurd.

And here's a problem... I really think that asking for inclusion does you harm. More than good? I don't know, but because you ask for inclusion you get results as these when anything that even smells homosexual is seen as pandering even if the author really wanted to write about it and didn't do it just out of obligation.

You're entirely correct that it does me harm. Just look at this thread. Dingbats on the Internet want to smother me with a pillow. In other circumstances, I've got a lot more hate for a lot less. I know most of the Codexians aren't serious, but there's always the morons who look at shit like this and go beat up the closeted gay kid at their school because they think cool dudes on the internet would approve of them. (I have brothers in high school. Yes, this IS how it works sometimes.) So stirring the hornet's nest does, in fact, hurt me, and other queer people.

However, I firmly believe that it does me (and other queer people) more good than harm, especially in the long run. And ultimately it's my choice, and I'm not responsible for others' actions. And if I'm wrong, well... that sucks, but oh well. I'd prefer to err on the side of what I think is the right choice rather than the side of caution.

And, the fact is, people have gotten hate for including queer characters for centuries. And that's just what I know of. And more recently, as gay people have become more visible, pretty much any book with significant gay characters gets dinged for being "political", merely by their existence [as you acknowledge]. In light of this, I'm not doing any MORE harm by asking for inclusion.

In other words, unless I'm okay with "no fags in fiction ever", which I'm not, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to ignore the people who see any queer characters as a political statement. (Or laugh at them, if they're full-blown morons.)

Moreover, with a game that cannot give a single shit about telling a real story or, more importantly, building its mechanics around gay characters, asking for them is like asking for a diversity in the colours of the lichen on the rocks in a game. It's totally inane and superficial, the change (barring lichen based games?).

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here, so I can't really reply. [Maybe you typoed?]

I covered the rest above. to repeat the tl;dr - It's a setting/worldbuilding issue, a subset of good writing, and this writing issue absolutely does not apply to every piece of fiction. 2001: Space Odyssey is actually another good example of a piece of fiction that would not have been a better movie if it had queer characters (though I wouldn't have complained).

But by and large, isn't it already 'Friday' enough that you can say 'cut out the fucking sexploitation already'?

This is a perfectly valid question, but from my perspective, I really don't think so. And I've gotta work with my own judgment there.

Classic feminist double standard: Shaming language ("virgin", i.e. "You can't get sex!"; also "neckbeard" and so on) is acceptable if directed at men.

From the person who unironically name-dropped Orwell, I get a lecture on double standards.

Let me be clear: I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin. In fact, I think it's 100% fine, including if it lasts your entire life.

That doesn't stop me from thinking that young male virgins were one of the groups Bioware was aiming at with the asari, along with queer people. There's an insult there, but it's not aimed at young male virgins.

Because usually, unless you have issues, you won't care if your friends, colleagues etc are gay, straight or into beating off to ponies.

It's nice that you believe this, but even in the LIBRUL area that I live in, LOTS of people give a shit that I'm queer, and universally in a negative fashion. In general, I used to hide it as much as possible, but gave up when enough people found out anyway. [That sucked.]

So yeah. You're wrong, though I wish you were right. Representation DOES mean something. It cures the issues of people who are straight-up uncomfortable with us faggots until they're used to us existing. Once they're used to us existing, suddenly they don't give us shit anymore. (At least, not in seriousness.)

As for fapping, you seem to be assuming that none of the people in disagreement with you (mostly me) have noticed that Torment isn't going to have any sex in it.

AngryEddy: I want to thank you for posting in this thread with your frothing at the mouth bullshit. It was genuinely entertaining, though not the best of the thread - my favorite so far has been the RPG genre flailing on its back like an overturned beetle while I watch and don't help - that was amazing, and also makes a fair point in an incredibly silly way. You, though - your arguments are awful and you should feel awful.

Does Bioware even make gay NPC's these days? I thought they we're all bi-sexual and bi isn't gay

Same category [for the record, I'm bisexual myself; and that's why I'm using the umbrella term "queer" except when I'm being sarcastic or flippant]. I'm told they do have straight-up gay NPCs in ME3 at least, but like I said, I haven't played it.

Eh, I never used the word butthurt. This thread wasn't named by me.

Fair enough.

because you seem slightly surprised by it, despite admitting to having lurked somewhat around these parts.

Whoa whoa whoa.

I'm not even remotely surprised by any of it. If I implied otherwise, I misspoke. (Or I'm forgetting something. Too lazy to re-read.)

My initial post ("I couldn't think of a better bunch of people to tear me a new asshole" or whatever I actually said) was genuine.

The main surprising thing was that anyone found my blog at all. I was astonished when one of the Numenera writers popped up to leave me a nice comment, and I was astonished when RPG Codex found me & made a thread for me. I admit, I would have written my posts in a better fashion if I'd expected that would happen. I DID put a ton of effort into my Torment Uservoice posts.

With my blog posts, all I did was copy/paste my initial arguments and idly complain. Anything else, at the time, seemed like it would have been preaching to the choir, since my tiny audience of personal friends already agree with me or don't care enough to read.

In fact, I was particularly embarrassed when the Numenera writer showed up, because the post she commented on was badly written and formatted even worse. I cleaned it up a little in shame afterwards :P

Codexers don't really hate you, or the fact that you're gay

Oh, I got that. I would only personally guess a few comments here came from a homophobic perspective, and for all I know every last one of 'em is just more 4chan-style nonsense, slash pure idiocy.

And while I'm certain a few people here despise me, and despise me for being queer and not hiding it like they so desperately wish, that's hardly hatred, and it might not even literally be homophobia in the literal 'fear' or 'fear-based disgust' sense - though you'll pardon me if I don't 100% rule it out. [Most of my time on the internet is spent on a 4chan spinoff community, so I DO understand that shit. Pls note my lack of taking offense to the slur 'faggot'.]

For example, I'm PRETTY sure AngryEddy is a raging homophobe, but I don't know him & I don't remember his other posts. So I could be totally wrong! He COULD just be ragingly stupid - for thinking that 'keeping your sexuality to yourself' is a genuine option in real life (Hint: You can't really hide who you have relationships with because /your friends see them/) or that it's a GOOD option on the internet (queer visibility in any arena is the only way queers can actually live normal lives, in the long run). And he could just hate queer folk, he might not be afraid of them. And he could just hate SOME queer folk, the ones who don't spend their lives trying to hide it from him, but be totally cool with the queer folk who he just happened to find out were queer, because that's within his acceptable boundaries. None of these options look particularly good for him from my POV, but they're not necessarily hatred or homophobia or even objectionable to a number of people (and queer people!) who aren't me.

[Not gay, by the way, since other people have started nitpicking that. Bisexual.]

or LGBTQIA; what the fuck does the "I" stand for anyway?

The I stands for intersex, and yes, I find that acronym confusing too. I prefer 'queer' because that's too many fuckin' letters for most people to remember. [But some people see 'queer' as a slur. Shrug.]

(even a gay moderator who called you butthurt in this thread's title)

I know that now, yeah, but that doesn't make ... any of a difference at all, actually. Queer people are by no reason required to agree with anything I said, and in fact, many would not. Me or anyone else being queer or a feminist or whatever doesn't give us a magical shield from being wrong. If a gay moderator called me butthurt, and I am not butthurt, then they are just as wrong as if a straight moderator called me butthurt, assuming that I am not butthurt. No more, no less.

The thing that Codexers hate, truly and viciously hate, is the decline, the process of games becoming worse and worse as time goes on, of them turning into awful interactive movies with cover-shooter segments, terribly dumbed down and pandering to the lowest common denominator at every point. This is what we actually care about.

I know. I get this. I just honestly don't agree with the majority of Codexians, though I respect their opinions (in this case). I don't think it's Bioware's fault in the slightest for lowering standards. I don't think they killed the best RPGs, I think they stepped into the void that was left after the best RPGs had already died. (Remember how PS:T was a total sales failure?) In fact, I really believe that we wouldn't be getting these new potentially-great games if Bioware & Bethesda hadn't kept the RPG audience alive.

For example, I know a ton of Torment backers who first played PS:T because they used Mass Effect or Dragon Age as a gateway drug. Especially people who enjoyed those franchises but are also disappointed in them (DA2 & ME3 were killer in particular because of their storytelling failures). People pointed them towards BG2 and PST, and when the time came, pointed them towards these kickstarters. I backed Shadowrun, Eternity, and Torment in the hopes of getting more of that quality level - especially Torment.

In this way, I feel that Bioware & Bethesda are indirectly responsible for a bigger and better Torment, and maybe these other KS RPGs too. Ultimately they've accomplished good.

Do you get a risk that those new fans will fuck things up? Sure. But honestly, have a little more faith in inExile than that. Surely you've noticed how hard they've shot down the endless fucking romance suggestions.

So, in our eyes, you're not even content with turning Bioware games into glorified dating sims; no, you need to come over and try to fuck over one of the few games actually produced with us as the target audience in mind.

See above.

But yeah, this is a totally unsurprising reaction from Codex users, which is why I didn't myself post it on the Codex. Like I said, I've lurked the Codex. I've seen the giant amounts of paranoia, even put directly to the devs themselves. (My favorite was OMG THEY LIED ABOUT CHRIS AVELLONE!!!!) On one hand, it's reasonable given the community, on another hand - and call me trusting, here - it's deeply silly. :P

(I haven't caught up on all the threads yet, but I would bet you my left testicle that someone here is flipping their shit about the Torment devs' devious plan to withhold the 2D announcement until THE LAST WEEK as part of a WICKED PLOT to FLEECE US OF MONEY. To which I say: I hope they fleece everyone for as much as they can so long as they make the best damn game they possibly can, and if you disagree, or decide not to support Torment on the basis of their terrible fleecing, then you're a blazing moron and I hope you die.)

One day, idiot libruls will learn the difference between actual homophobes (most Codexians aren't, in my experience) and people who simply don't wish for their favorite computer games to be used as delivery systems for in-your-face "raising awareness" propaganda. I don't want overt heterosexual romance in Torment, either. Generally speaking, I shouldn't even know what the characters' sexual orientations are, nor care to know.

I missed this post before, but I'll reply to it.

...Actually I covered this mostly above. Summary: I don't think everyone who disagrees me is a homophobe (just a minority of them), I don't think inclusion of queer characters automatically means propaganda delivery, I don't think inclusion of queer characters requires ROMANCE, and the player DID know what the sexual orientation was of most PS:T characters ("yes" for Morte, Ignus, Annah, Nameless One, many random NPCs, "no" for Dak'kon & many other random NPCs. Not counting asexuals like Vhailor or sexless creatures like Nordom.)

If you think that knowing people are straight doesn't "count" as knowing their sexual orientation, then I don't give a shit! :D Seriously, that's a rather poor argument.

In all seriousness, EA's treatment of the LGBT community as a smokescreen to cover up SimCity's disastrous launch is fucking disgusting. It's obvious they're only giving them the time of day because they're a new, untapped consumer base to bring in mad dosh.

I'm really not sure I want to know about this (I don't know or care about SimCity or related properties), but it would be hard for me to hate EA anymore than I already do.

I'm familiar with how they treat their customers; I actually never finished Mass Effect 2 after having to spend hours on the phone with them to get my girlfriend's copy of the game to fucking work. (We got nowhere. She eventually fixed the problem herself.) And of course that's small potatoes compared to how they treat their actual employees, which is where my full-on rage comes from.

If you point me towards a new reason to hate Bioware specifically besides having IMO occasional problems with quality of work and besides being under EA's umbrella, though, I will actually go look into it.

----------------

By the way, it might be worth being more specific as to why I don't think Bioware specifically handles queer inclusion very well, and my specific reason for being excited about DA3 after I admit to disliking how much of the writing in their other recent games was handled.

For DA3: It's because after taking a beating for DA2, which seems to have been a rough draft that they pooped out in a hurry, Bioware at least claims to be taking their sweet time to get it right this time, and to actually work on making the writing good. And with ME3 they got crippled by having all the writers who gave a shit about the franchise leave the development team. Not true for DA3. And finally... because I like Bioware, and I want to see them improve. I really do. So it's not JUST the queer thing.

And about the Queer Inclusion Issue, and why I think Bioware handles it badly:

It's because it only ever seems to show up in romance, and I mean ever. I get deeply suspicious when I play a dude [or chick] and the other dudes [or chicks] in the party want to bang me, but no other queer people seem to exist in the world [except ex-partners of party members]. Gee, it almost seems as if I'm some kind of magical fag magnet.

I mean, sure, in real life I know plenty of queer folk, but that's because I AM queer! Because we're socially pushed to congregate in our own subcultures! Because I seek those subcultures out!

But theoretically these people are THE ONLY QUEER PEOPLE IN TEH KNOWN UNIVERSE who have so happened to congregate around me even if I'm playing a straight character.

At best that's what we call "a contrivance" in writing workshops. If you want the majority of your party members to be queer/bisexual, then it needs to make sense with the rest of the universe. Bioware has never, ever gotten it right, so far, and neither has Bethesda, in Skyrim, where you, the player, can form the only gay marriage ever in all the land. (Haven't played FO3 yet, just Beth's ES games.)

So far Obsidian is the only developer to have carried out queer inclusion realistically that I am aware of. From Colin McComb's comments about Torment, inExile is gonna be the second.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Has Moose, sneaky bastard that he is, now installed a second blog here?
 

thedeadlymoose

Literate
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
11
I hadn't realized Simon and Schuster published directly to Internet forums.

I enjoy walls of text. The main thing I regret about this post is that it will only be three sentences.
 
Self-Ejected

AngryEddy

Self-Ejected
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
3,596
Location
Fuzzy Pleasure Palace
For example, I'm PRETTY sure AngryEddy is a raging homophobe


I'm not scared of fags, you dirtball. I just don't like faggots ruining the art of storytelling, but I wouldn't like heterosexual liberals forcing their bullshit on me anymore than you, so stop trying to be a special victim, you passive aggressive douche. Like I said before, I think the way Witcher 2 and Game of Thrones handled homosexuality was fine, but I won't accept your "I'm gay, just without all of the emotional baggage, + i'm to be accepted by EVERYONE in the lore + i'm to be empowered and stronger emotionally than the main characters + I need to be over represented" bullshit.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Game 'bloggers' are only one step above game 'journalists.'
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,662
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Pretty fucking terribly.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...occasionally-nsfw.57009/page-393#post-2271588
Also hawwwwwwwwwwt lesbians (except one is actually bisexual and you can totally fuck her later, cha-ching)

Let me see if I've got this straight:

1.) If there's only one homosexual (or a very few) encountered in the game, they must be portrayed in a positive light and can't fall victim to any homophobic characters (a lack of homophobes is surely realistic).

2.) Fictional universes, including grimdark fantasy settings, are no longer allowed to feature homophobia, objectification of women, or racism, because games are progressive value delivery systems.

Is that about right? Look, if idiots like you had your way, fiction like Conan the Cimmerian wouldn't be allowed. Fuck your shitty agenda.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
I have to assume what they did to the mage now goes as political statement?
 

thedeadlymoose

Literate
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
11
I'm not scared of fags, you dirtball. I just don't like faggots ruining the art of storytelling, but I wouldn't like heterosexual liberals forcing their bullshit on me anymore than you, so stop trying to be a special victim, you passive aggressive douche. Like I said before, I think the way Witcher 2 and Game of Thrones handled homosexuality was fine, but I won't accept your "I'm gay, just without all of the emotional baggage, + i'm to be accepted by EVERYONE in the lore + i'm to be empowered and stronger emotionally than the main characters + I need to be over represented" bullshit.

You have poor reading comprehension, because I already admitted that you might well not be 'scared of fags' in that same damn paragraph. And I'm fairly certain I was aggressive-aggressive.

As for the rest of that, well, that's a very cute little strawman you've got set up there, but (while I can't speak for anyone else) it certainly doesn't match anything that *I* was saying. Maybe if you wish really hard on the next star you see.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,660
1.) If there's only one homosexual (or a very few) encountered in the game, they must be portrayed in a positive light and can't fall victim to any homophobic characters (a lack of homophobes is surely realistic).
If there's only one gay person in a game that's already a recipe for disaster. See: the link to Sawyer's blog.
2.) Fictional universes, including grimdark fantasy settings, are no longer allowed to feature homophobia, objectification of women, or racism, because games are progressive value delivery systems.
They can in fact have those things. As long as they're not coming from the author.

Is that about right? Look, if idiots like you had your way, fiction like Conan the Cimmerian wouldn't be allowed. Fuck your shitty agenda.
Conan and Robert E Howard are shit, I have a fistful of Lesi quotes to back this up.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,662
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
If there's only one gay person in a game that's already a recipe for disaster. See: the link to Sawyer's blog.

Ah yes, I forgot: According to you, realistic ratios of queer people to straight people don't apply to video games, and at least half of all characters must be queer. Also, a character doesn't "count" as queer unless they or the game specifically mention their sexual orientation or partner in some way.

They can in fact have those things. As long as they're not coming from the author.

Pray tell, how do you determine that?

Conan and Robert E Howard are shit, I have a fistful of Lesi quotes to back this up.

Why would you think I (or anyone else) would give any credence to your radfem blogger idol?
 

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