Building fantasy cultures underuses scientific knowledge - Discuss

[Beastro]

WTF does that Morrowind NPC face have to do with this thread????

 

[kris]

thats the route I took with one of the of the longlived races in my world. That they have become really afraid of dying and spend an amount of time avoiding risks and conflict. Another one is that they have a hard time finding joy in things since they experienced almost everything. Of course, for these things you need to look into their beliefs, what happens when you die?

I'd take that more as a first step.

What I mean is that would be the perspective of a human who suddenly found them self living for centuries because it is completely alien to human nature and how our mind is built.

What would the nature of a beings that lived that long be like? IMO, a good start would them being not so much risk adverse but slower to act and perceive the world, seeing the passage of time pass quicker and so appearing to live slower (A 1000 year life time feeling what a normal 80ish year human life time is to us) to humans and humans to them would be like flies quickly buzzing rapidly and confusingly.

I mention that last bit because flies of how perceive the world, it is so quick that everything appears more like it's in slow motion. It's what makes them and most other wing insects so damn hard to catch.

The ones i talked about basically was like this. Ones that through magical means prolonged their lives, not that came from generations, like elves.

 

[Beastro]

thats the route I took with one of the of the longlived races in my world. That they have become really afraid of dying and spend an amount of time avoiding risks and conflict. Another one is that they have a hard time finding joy in things since they experienced almost everything. Of course, for these things you need to look into their beliefs, what happens when you die?

I'd take that more as a first step.

What I mean is that would be the perspective of a human who suddenly found them self living for centuries because it is completely alien to human nature and how our mind is built.

What would the nature of a beings that lived that long be like? IMO, a good start would them being not so much risk adverse but slower to act and perceive the world, seeing the passage of time pass quicker and so appearing to live slower (A 1000 year life time feeling what a normal 80ish year human life time is to us) to humans and humans to them would be like flies quickly buzzing rapidly and confusingly.

I mention that last bit because flies of how perceive the world, it is so quick that everything appears more like it's in slow motion. It's what makes them and most other wing insects so damn hard to catch.

The ones i talked about basically was like this. Ones that through magical means prolonged their lives, not that came from generations, like elves.

Fantasy Zardoz?

 

[fantadomat]

thats the route I took with one of the of the longlived races in my world. That they have become really afraid of dying and spend an amount of time avoiding risks and conflict. Another one is that they have a hard time finding joy in things since they experienced almost everything. Of course, for these things you need to look into their beliefs, what happens when you die?

I'd take that more as a first step.

What I mean is that would be the perspective of a human who suddenly found them self living for centuries because it is completely alien to human nature and how our mind is built.

What would the nature of a beings that lived that long be like? IMO, a good start would them being not so much risk adverse but slower to act and perceive the world, seeing the passage of time pass quicker and so appearing to live slower (A 1000 year life time feeling what a normal 80ish year human life time is to us) to humans and humans to them would be like flies quickly buzzing rapidly and confusingly.

I mention that last bit because flies of how perceive the world, it is so quick that everything appears more like it's in slow motion. It's what makes them and most other wing insects so damn hard to catch.

The ones i talked about basically was like this. Ones that through magical means prolonged their lives, not that came from generations, like elves.

Fantasy Zardoz?

IF you want a realistic longevity human like race,well they will be like the dark eldars after a few century of existence.

 

[YES!]

Man Roqua, I wish you'd make more posts like this and less of your usual pent up hysterics.

I feel like I'm reading an entirely different persons post reading your calm, honest insight.

I really enjoy good discussions and in-depth and thoughtful discussions but it is hard having them on a site overrun with retarded console children. This is how things could be if more people with brains took up the fight of expelling these filthy animals from this site.

You wrote a lot of stuff and I've read about half of it and will finish and reply when I have more time. But thank you for being more than a retarded child and actually thinking for yourself and trying to go deeper than the surface.

 

[Iznaliu]

Malcom X said real men don't ask for anything

Malcolm X probably would have punched you in the face, to be honest.

 

[YES!]

Malcom X said real men don't ask for anything

Malcolm X probably would have punched you in the face, to be honest.

ANOTHER GOOD ONE!!!!! You are just throwing out the super hurtful zingers left and right! Wow, did you take a class on how to make fun of people real good or something? Keep up the good work! Want to hear a couple great jokes right up your alley?

1) I just flew in from Cleveland and boy are my arms tired!

2) Take my wife...please!

HAHAHAHAHHAAH CLASSIC!!!!!!!!

 

[kris]

thats the route I took with one of the of the longlived races in my world. That they have become really afraid of dying and spend an amount of time avoiding risks and conflict. Another one is that they have a hard time finding joy in things since they experienced almost everything. Of course, for these things you need to look into their beliefs, what happens when you die?

I'd take that more as a first step.

What I mean is that would be the perspective of a human who suddenly found them self living for centuries because it is completely alien to human nature and how our mind is built.

What would the nature of a beings that lived that long be like? IMO, a good start would them being not so much risk adverse but slower to act and perceive the world, seeing the passage of time pass quicker and so appearing to live slower (A 1000 year life time feeling what a normal 80ish year human life time is to us) to humans and humans to them would be like flies quickly buzzing rapidly and confusingly.

I mention that last bit because flies of how perceive the world, it is so quick that everything appears more like it's in slow motion. It's what makes them and most other wing insects so damn hard to catch.

The ones i talked about basically was like this. Ones that through magical means prolonged their lives, not that came from generations, like elves.

Fantasy Zardoz?

Not really. I mean some aspects of their "life" could be mirrored in people, but I didn't directly envision that seclusion and subsequent wierdness.

Was more about different groups of people who achieved prolonged life through different magical means and how that would affect and change them. Back when I first created my world for PnP I was a teen and didn't think about those things at all. At that point it was more like "lived long = very experienced / know everything".

 

[Iznaliu]

Was more about different groups of people who achieved prolonged life through different magical means and how that would affect and change them. Back when I first created my world for PnP I was a teen and didn't think about those things at all. At that point it was more like "lived long = very experienced / know everything".

It would be interesting to base this off interviews with centenarians and extrapolate from there.

 

[YES!]

To equate the Norse with only those qualities is the equivalent of Leftists who only see the history of the West as one of colonial pillagers and slave holders when there's far more of it than that, as there is with the Norse.

Can you name one piece of entertainment about Vikings that didn't involve them Viking?

Now would I approve of others doing that today, much less do that myself? Hell no, but like I said, something about it makes me smile in pride because I can see that obstinate impishness and knack for provocation and teasing I and my family have and this doesn't include the island castle we'd retreat to when we caused too much trouble nor the legendary ominous reaction the full moon brought many Scots, since it was the "lantern" that signaled a coming nightly raid of ours somewhere.

That is the point - heritage is evelving. Taking pride in your heritage, what it is now and not what you consider the historical warts, isn't a bad thing. If you somehow thought you are still a night raider and your heritage gives you the right to raid other people' shit at night you would just simply be retarded. If you think the actions, or inactions on some points, of your forefathers has any bearing on if you should be allowed to say or do anything, or be ashamed of anything, also lies the road to retardation. You shouldn't go to jail for a crime your father committed. And you shouldn't feel ashamed or proud for something people did hundred of years ago. Anyone of any skin hue or any heritage should be able to feel pride. I think half the trick of life is telling yourself lies to believe and rejecting excuses. I consider myself superior to others because that's how it becomes true. Being superior has nothing to do with shit that happened a long time ago and events you took no part in or things you have no control over. Being a harder worker, being more stoic, acquiring more knowledge or having a clearer view of the big picture or systems isn't something you inherit. They are acts you are a willing participant in or not.

I shouldn't say I am conservative, because I'm not in the actual definition. I am against the left-wing ideology. I am extremely liberal, but part of the left-wing revisionist agenda is to control definitions to control the narrative. People who are proud of their skin color, be they black, white, or anything in-between, are retarded and inherently inferior. Only fucking morons impose magical properties on color or get more from the sight of it than just a superficial fact. This is the rational way of thought, and only left-wing cultists can make it such a huge deal and actively try and make skin hue more magical with more properties.

Take gay marriage - only fucking lowbrow retards in the US could celebrate new laws allowing gays to marry. The way it should have been handled by reasonable and rational people with brains and any sort of grasp on the principals of liberty is as follows - the government has zero business telling adults what contracts they can enter into willingly. Marriage is not a public institute, but is the most private of institutes anyone can ever enter a contract into. Any law stating gays can marry is an affront to liberty. There should be no laws allowed by the people stating gays can't marry. A law stating gays can marry is a tragedy. Gays being allowed to marry should have been assumed and any laws stating otherwise should have been challenged since their only actual footing was the ninth amendment.

This is one of the key differences between the left and non-cultists - fighting for the right of gays to marry isn't something to celebrate. Fighting for the acknowledgement that gays should have never been allowed not to marry, and there is no reasonable or rational way a State could sanction marriage contracts while denying the entrance into such contracts based on principle of liberty to any adult based on the gender of the party's contractors. A law stating gays can marry just empowers government with rights they have no right to and never have and shouldn't. Ensuring there is no law that forbids adults to engage in the same activities of other adults is what this country should be about.

Is the left-wing cult leaders stupid and short sighted? No, just their cultists. Tyranny is like the dusk, it happens gradually to a people losing their sight to the growing darkness until all is all dark. Tyranny requires a complicit populace willing to allow the government way too much power. Power is force. Force is the antithesis of liberty. Non-cultists see the government is like fire - necessary but must be constantly contained and constantly restricted, lest it grow and burn out of control.

That is sadly what many are in the "Alt-Right", they oppose Leftists out of contrarian impulse to sneer and mock what they view as the mainstream careful to try to never be that, because having values and principles are only for those they deride in their nihilistic safety bubble.

They don't care, or think they don't unwilling to admit it, about anything, just wanting to take the piss out of anyone who does that takes center stage in society.

Like with the Tea-Party, the cultists just want to do their character or organization assassination. The facts don't have to be true or relevant, but as long as their is a steady inflow of accusations or the grouping of obvious undesirables with members of a group people will associate the group with what the cultist's state the group is. Facts be damned. The alt-right is now what the cultists state it is versus what it was.

It is the same thing with terrorists and police. The left doesn't want people equating Muslims with terrorists because they state a group should not be associated with a small minority of its members. The say this unless it is a group they try and destroy in which case this exactly what they want. Like with cops and magic-skin-hue violence.

And this leads to the point of one party controlling the media. When the news is anything but the fourth estate and a propaganda and PR arm of a specific party, there is no difference between it and the state sponsored news agencies of communist regimes. In both situations it is up to the people to be smart enough to realize the news isn't. But it is also up to the people to think and not be brain-washed cultists as both the whole left-wing and religious right are. And these cultists are the true believers that want to silence the opposition. Anyone who truly hates Fox News or the MSM and wants either silenced belong to one of the cults. Sane people are able to think and thinking allows them to see and understand propaganda. Sane people realize that anyone who wants to silence the opposition are the bad guys and do not want to be grouped in with them.

You assume they'd be anything without them, like a spirit freed from a shakling body. I don't think you realize that is that medium with which we can be anything, and without it we are as freedom and adrift as a man floating through space without gravity or any surface with which to ground himself upon.

It is the dark mirror we eternally struggle to see through, but the alternative is blindness.

To put it another way in the context of this threads discussion, nothing is ever truly original, everything comes from something else, but that doesn't mean original doesn't exist, it needs something preexisting to rest in.

That is ultimately the mythological root of fantasy as a genre, and I'd say for RPGs too due to the heavy inheritance they have from fantasy.

I could not disagree more. Only a weak mind needs the yoke or wants the yoke. I doesn't matter if someone rejects tyranny of thought because they internally thought about it and decided it was good to do so or read about how someone else thought about it and came to the same conclusion. Just as it doesn't matter for the mind wanting the yoke.

No one will ever do my thinking for me. It doesn't matter if my current conclusions are discovered by my own internal ponderings or gained from someone else's discoveries and churned through my system. Thinking is what matters. Rejecting the yoke is what matters. Having your mind be at constant and eternal conflict with any and all ideas is what matters. Your saying there is no difference between freedom and slavery, and I am saying that nothing could be more false.
​

Any of that comes from PCness viewing having Africans and Middle Easterners as bad guys as being inherently bad when they never should be at all.

By Africans do you mean the lite skinned Tunisian or the white skinned man from South Africa? By Middle Easterners do you mean the Christian hunted down in a genocidal massacre?

No, you meant black skinned person of African descent, and probably Muslim for you Middle Easterner. Muslim is a faith you choose to follow or not. Middle Eastern is a geographical location created to differentiate the area from other areas close by. Like Central America for Mexico, which is a NA country.

I dislike all groups. If you can group people together in one lump chances are I dislike them for various reasons. I dislike Muslims but every Muslim I have met in the US I have liked for the most part - especially the immigrants. I like immigrants more than natives here when it comes to acquaintances. In the ME they have the usual range of awful for most people, from straight up dicks to pretty good-guys.

In games I don't really pay attention to the story. The bad guys are the ones trying to stop me from getting from A to B. Objectively in every game I am the bad guy since I am judge, jury, and executioner and if the game allows it I am one of the greatest and most prolific thieves ever. And murderer. And any other bad label the game allows or promotes me to be.

What is bad is trying to impose a political agenda of cultist good in a genre with the explicit goal of rewarding bad behavior. It mimics the real life hypocrisy of the cultist since being bad isn't doing bad things, being bad is rejecting the cult narrative and beliefs.

 

[Beastro]

Can you name one piece of entertainment about Vikings that didn't involve them Viking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_13th_Warrior

Your saying there is no difference between freedom and slavery, and I am saying that nothing could be more false.

No, that one should be careful in what soil one plants oneself in and that one must recognize that when it comes to cultures and beliefs there are difference kinds and some are better than others, or rather, some are more dangerous than others.

To declare oneself to be outside and beyond such things is as naive as those atheists you described who aren't aware of their religiously anchored world view.

That is the other side of the problem we moderns face, being stuck between those who only see people as pieces of collective groups (and their place in the hierarchy of victimhood when it comes to the Left, while most "white nationalists" are a reaction to, and imitation of that mindset) and those of the literal Libertarian streak who reject the constraints of society upon individuals and raise the questions you listed about wtf anyone would do anything for society and not be a self, self-centered asshole.

I think it's telling in the latter case that the Libertarian label is being increasingly dumped by many now that many no longer feel the need to claim some "third way" impartiality now that the Right isn't dominated by the likes of the Religious Right, who were largely indistinguishable from the malignant on the Left. They can finally feel comfortable being conservative, or rather, those more in the middle not expected to be pulled in either direction that are also not (capital) Moderates, that is being that in a deliberate sense of the term.

I think the issue is neither sides sees things as they are, that we are individuals who have to compromise and willingly sacrifice a hefty degree of individual freedom in order to make a functional society that we can thrive in, something I feel is at the heart of the culture you described in most conservative, Red state regions of the US where what you look like doesn't matter one bit so long as you're willing to work hard.

Middle Eastern is a geographical location created to differentiate the area from other areas close by. Like Central America for Mexico, which is a NA country.

I'd rather call it a cultural one, much akin to how Europe has no geological basis for its separation from Asia. North African, at least since the last desertification of the Sahara, has had a clear disconnect between it and the Sub-Sahara, hence their inclusion into the "Middle East" since Islam overran it.

Apologies if that middle bit is jumbled and incoherent, a price of the chronic pain issues I'm dealing with at present.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Apologies if that middle bit is jumbled and incoherent, a price of the chronic pain issues I'm dealing with at present.

Holy cow, what a thing to bury in an obscure thread. Turning off shitposting and general mockery and sarcasm for a second here, are you alright? Like, get well soon, there's nothing worse than persistent pain.

 

[Beastro]

Apologies if that middle bit is jumbled and incoherent, a price of the chronic pain issues I'm dealing with at present.

Holy cow, what a thing to bury in an obscure thread. Turning off shitposting and general mockery and sarcasm for a second here, are you alright? Like, get well soon, there's nothing worse than persistent pain.

Something I've being dealing with for about 5 years that's increasingly gotten worse. Originally thought it was TMD, but it seems to be a neck injury I didn't know I received.

The pains bad enough but it's how it interferes with my concentration and ability to think that's what's really worried me, to the point that looking back I see it's even impacted what games I've played. The realization I've had this year is I can keep giving into it and have it keep reducing what I do or push through and do things, like participating in conversations like this, and accept that things won't come out like envisioned and catch flak for it.

 

[Iznaliu]

Turning off shitposting and general mockery and sarcasm for a second here, are you alright?

I doubt Roqua will do that; he'll probably blame that on your behaviour.

 

[Azarkon]

Oh right, moving the goalposts now are we. I don't remember us talking about whether games were shit or not, I remember us talking about whether 'developers' are original or not. You used Obsidian as an example of a company with no originality. But, oh woe, their latest game does indeed fit your deranged criteria, but instead of using them as an example of someone trying to be original you just say it's a shit game, cos you're mr. motivation all over aren't you. You're not at all just another shill spewing pure bullshit for whatever micro-corner of the gaming world you're competing with. You're not at all disingenuous are you. 'Mr Incline' here thinks a single character action RPG that copied Skyrim to become popular is the worlds most original game while a party-based, turn-based game is "more or less shit". And you dare to poke your little 's at me...

I'm pretty sure I already explained why I don't consider Obsidian's world building original - because Tyranny is the exception, not the rule.

So you're saying here that Witcher is more original than D&D because it has a single pre-defined character. And that it only works because its single character? Oh really, so you'd prefer it if RPGs had more in common with Prince of Persia or Legend of Zelda or Skyrim than D&D, wow, glad we sorted that out. Gee, I guess this genre would be so much better if someone like you had the all-power of dictating what should and shouldn't be released...

No, I'm saying that Witcher's world building is much more original than your average fantasy CRPG, although this isn't necessarily to the credit of CD Projekt, but their source material.

And you still don't seem able to grasp that 'original' games do indeed exist, have always existed and are regularly made.

No, they are not regularly made.

And yet you still seem upset that the most popular ones are the ones using vaguely D&D-like hooks. You know, like how Witcher needed to copy skyrim for 'the people' to come rushing towards it... It's hilarious that you used the word derivative when talking about Obsidian's production history, because it shows you have absolutely no idea what it means. Derivative is indeed another term for 'being original'. Witcher is a derivative. You're asking for all games to be derivative buy putting so much pressure on originality. Have you ever heard of Undertale? That hugely popular original and derivative game that came out only a very short time ago? Funny how you don't mention that, but instead use a single pre-defined character action RPG as your 'big example' for your oh so well intended stream of horseshit. Don't tell me, you think Undertale is shit as well, hence you don't use it as an example, because 'originality' only exists for you if the game is made using northern european quasi-historical lore (which is as full of stereotypes as anything else)?

Undertale is a JRPG meme game. Its world building consists of taking JRPG cliches and putting a twist on them. The result is not a coherent fantasy world, it's a parody, which is not what we're talking about.

Fell free to criticise. But you're not criticising actual video games, you're criticising the whole general popular appreciation for the heritage and continued fandom for a certain type of game. According to you it doesn't matter if a game is shit or a masterpiece, if it relates to D&D in any small way (as determined solely by you) it is automatically shit because it's 'unoriginal', meanwhile, if someone does make an 'original' game, which many do, it's going to be getting zero support from you if its shit (as determined solely by you). So, sweetheart, the basis of your argument is bollocks, the things you use as examples are bollocks, you're motivation is likely nothing more than some bizarre expression of racism and your actual knowledge of your subject is as puerile and incompetent as your understanding of basic philosophical concepts.

Aren't you tired of making straw men every time you lose an argument? Do quote where I said that every Dungeons and Dragons game is shit, or that any setting that relates to Dungeons and Dragons is shit. Just about the only correct statement you made in this entire paragraph is that I consider shit games, shit, regardless of whether they are original or not. My argument about the CRPG industry is that the reason we don't see more original settings is not because players demand the same old day after day, but because developers do not take the time, effort, and commitment necessary to create original settings. It could be a lack of desire, talent, resources, courage, or time. Whatever the case, the market is always willing to engage with original settings - the problem is the supply.

 

[Iznaliu]

Undertale is a JRPG meme game

THis sounds rather Roquaish.

 

[fantadomat]

Lol there is a lot of essays here.

 

[Iznaliu]

Lol there is a lot of essays here.

People would rather debate irrelevant semantics rather than actually playing RPGs and discussing those.

 

[fantadomat]

Lol there is a lot of essays here.

People would rather debate irrelevant semantics rather than actually playing RPGs and discussing those.

Well to be honest there is not much of a debate when it come to rpgs. You can tell how you feel about the game in a few parrots and then people will ether agree or disagree.

 

[Iznaliu]

Well to be honest there is not much of a debate when it come to rpgs. You can tell how you feel about the game in a few parrots and then people will ether agree or disagree.

Why does this not apply to other concepts, then?

 

[fantadomat]

Well to be honest there is not much of a debate when it come to rpgs. You can tell how you feel about the game in a few parrots and then people will ether agree or disagree.

Why does this not apply to other concepts, then?

Most people here are rpg fans and it is easy to come to some kind of mutual understanding even if it is a disagreeable one. It is like there is a quarrel between a bunch of nazi about how to boil a nigger. Everyone will have their own opinion about how to do it,while everyone loves boiling niggers.

 

[Iznaliu]

Most people here are rpg fans and it is easy to come to some kind of mutual understanding even if it is a disagreeable one

The issue with that hypothesis is that RPGs are a broad genre with a wide variety of elements that can make people like them.