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Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel

chestburster

Savant
Illiterate
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
711
Yeah, the rare drops were a very sad joke in BL2. Interestingly enough, some people actually went and made a work-around to it, basically a CheatEngine table that lets you modify the drop frequency/quality. If you have any idea what BL1 drop rates were like, you could easily replicate it with that. Or with whatever you feel being reasonable.

What is this engine, and what are the loot rates for BL1? I'm thinking about playing BL2 again soon.


White - 1%
Green - 1%
Blue/Unique - 3%
Purple/E-tech - 5%
Seraph - 6%
Legendary - 15%
Pearlescent - 69%

Might I suggest this loot table? Should knock a couple hundred hours off of your playtime..

With a drop table like this, you'd have seen all BL2's "legendary" guns in an hour and realize BL2 has fewer distinctive weapons than even Call of Duty. How can GBX milk you for more DLCs then?
 

chestburster

Savant
Illiterate
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
711
To enjoy Borderlands, play like it's an FPS and not an ARPG. Don't "farm" anything, just use the guns you find while solving missions. Enemies drop quickly enough anyway when you shoot them in the head.

Fuck this. Enemies WILL one shot you because shield is pathetic in this game. You'd be crawling in Fight For Your Life all the time.

Truth be told, if one plays BL2 like "it's an FPS" not "a crappy FPS improved slightly by ARPG mechanisms" then he really has shitty taste in FPS.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,016
Play it like an FPS. One with really shitty shooting mechanics and weapons.

The best thing is those "Badass ranks" bonuses they added that give you like +3% to HP or shield when enemies deal so much damage that your shield is gone in one hit, so they don't fucking matter at all.
Todd Howard Seal of design approval.
 
Unwanted

jcd

Punished JCD
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Messages
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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Bubbles In Memoria
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Last edited:

toroid

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2005
Messages
710
The best thing is those "Badass ranks" bonuses they added that give you like +3% to HP or shield when enemies deal so much damage that your shield is gone in one hit, so they don't fucking matter at all.
That's not what badass ranks do, they just make enemies more powerful and give them new abilities and looks. And it's actually pretty fun because certain enemies can evolve during combat.

He meant http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Badass_Rank#
 
Unwanted

jcd

Punished JCD
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Messages
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Pretty much. And it's not like there's some exclusive new content in the higher difficulty modes, you just see bigger numbers.

Unless you want to actually have some sort of depth or flavour to your class. Every class basically plays the same for the majority of the first game since you have so few ability points.

That said, I hacked in an appropriately-leveled character straight to NG+ difficulty in BL2 and it's not like I ever needed to grind to survive. But I pretty much stuck to the main quest + a handful of side quests and didn't try any of those stupid raid bosses.
 

Metro

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Basically mini-achievements. It's probably for the best that the bonuses are symbolic, tying character progression to cheevos is a scary prospect.
In a single player/co-op game it's not like they have to worry about balance. N-e-waiz, not sure how this discussion keeps rolling on. You play the game for a playthrough or two unless you're OCD and love to grind grind grind for more levels against scaling enemies.

And to address the point directly above; even on the higher difficulties the characters still play mostly the same because... guess what... it's an FPS! If they had more than one or two abilities it might be different. At least with something like Derpablo or Torchlight you have characters with different spells and abilities. As mentioned earlier, that Zero/ninja guy was laughably ill-conceived in a game where all of the mechanics are focused on shooting people with guns and there are no melee weapons.
 

chestburster

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And to address the point directly above; even on the higher difficulties the characters still play mostly the same because... guess what... it's an FPS! If they had more than one or two abilities it might be different. At least with something like Derpablo or Torchlight you have characters with different spells and abilities.

This is exactly where BL2 fails because GBX is derpy: each class actually has THREE so-called "game-changing" skill modifiers that actually change the gameplay so "theoretically" each class should have at least three builds (comparable to Derpblo 3) but because GBX completely fucked up their game balance, generally ONLY ONE of those modifier remains useful at max level.

Take the Gunzerker for example. He has rampage, holding-down-trigger-increasing-damage and taunt. Basically rampage is designed so that you can kill a bunch of trash mobs then unleash a big dmg spike on a big enemy; holding-down-trigger is designed to complement the guns with big magazines; and taunt is self-explanatory since you're a tank. But because late game enemies have astronomical HP numbers, you can't kill shit fast enough so rampage is essentially useless. Because big-magazine guns i.e. Bandit guns are so shit in their stats, the holding-down-trigger skill is useless; and taunt? Good luck with that when enemies are one-shotting you left and right. In the end few would put skill points into those skills. And every Gunzerker basically just uses the "money-shot" skill that is boring and dependent on RNG.

TL;DR This discussion goes on because for every ONE idea that GBX get right, they make ten mistakes. BL1 had a lot of potential but in BL2 they fucked shit up.
 
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And to address the point directly above; even on the higher difficulties the characters still play mostly the same because... guess what... it's an FPS! If they had more than one or two abilities it might be different. At least with something like Derpablo or Torchlight you have characters with different spells and abilities.

This is exactly where BL2 fails because GBX is derpy: each class actually has THREE so-called "game-changing" skill modifiers that actually change the gameplay so "theoretically" each class should have at least three builds (comparable to Derpblo 3) but because GBX completely fucked up their game balance, generally ONLY ONE of those modifier remains useful at max level.

Take the Gunzerker for example. He has rampage, holding-down-trigger-increasing-damage and taunt. Basically rampage is designed so that you can kill a bunch of trash mobs then unleash a big dmg spike on a big enemy; holding-down-trigger is designed to complement the guns with big magazines; and taunt is self-explanatory since you're a tank. But because late game enemies have astronomical HP numbers, you can't kill shit fast enough so rampage is essentially useless. Because big-magazine guns i.e. Bandit guns are so shit in their stats, the holding-down-trigger skill is useless; and taunt? Good luck with that when enemies are one-shotting you left and right. In the end few would put skill points into those skills. And every Gunzerker basically just uses the "money-shot" skill that is boring and dependent on RNG.

TL;DR This discussion goes on because for every ONE idea that GBX get right, they make ten mistakes. BL1 had a lot of potential but in BL2 they fucked shit up.

Yeah, but the point is that that single build is actually a build and plays somewhat differently from other classes. Before level 5 or something thereof every class is literally the same with no defining features, and for the next 20-25 levels the skill points are so sparse that the difference is in a few completely unfocused buffs of a few %. For the first playthrough the biggest difference between classes is the voiceovers.

I agree that 90% of skill trees being passives and the "game changers" being pathetic overall is a huge problem for BL. I'm not defending that shit.
 

Metro

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The 'sweet spot' is the second playthrough. First is too easy, character take a while to flesh out talents, and elemental effects are mostly pointless. In the third playthrough you pretty much get one shot by almost anything so you can't do much other than shoot things from far/mid range.

Still, I recognize this is what Borderplands is... it's an FPS and not an ARPG. Fun for a few bucks.
 

baturinsky

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I agree that 90% of skill trees being passives and the "game changers" being pathetic overall is a huge problem for BL. I'm not defending that shit.
Active skill affect your gameplay when you use it. Passive - much more often. And effect can be very big, especially if you use class mods to go beyond 5 points.
And they can affect you a lot, especially if you augment them with class mods. For example, Reaper gives +8% per level on enemy with >50% health. Meaning if you have it at 10 (thanks to class mod), you deal +80% damage with first hit. And if it's a headshot with sniper...

If you can combine weapons, tactics and skill to make them work together you mow enemies down and have fun. If you not - you whine on forums that "got kilt game sux".
 
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Virtually every (useful) passive boils down to "deal more damage" or "be better protected". Sorry, not much depth there. The only difference be classes' passives end up being who gets more damage, who gets more protection, and who gets the shaft.
 
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baturinsky

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Virtually every (useful) passive boils down to "deal more damage" or "be better protected". Sorry, not much depth there. The only difference be classes' passives end up being who gets more damage, who gets more protection, and who gets the shaft.
As in every combat-oriented RPG. When game is about dealing damage while staying standing, every skills or weapon or gear either makes you deal more damage, or avoid being damaged.
Also, most bonuses from skills are conditional. And you have to figure out how to make that condition fulfilled when you need.

For example, Zero has 1 shot 1 kill skill, that give huge damage bonus, but only to first shot in magazine. To get most of it - use guns with big alpha, such as quad shotguns or snipers. Which means you will have to reload a lot - so you'll need Killer, Fast Hands, and possibly At 1 with the gun, if you want to focus on Sniper. But Killer, for example, works only after you kill someone. What if one shot was not enough to kill? Then you take Killing Blow to finish off enemy with melee if needed, and Be like Water to capitalise on mixing melee and guns. Of cause, it only works in melee range, which means that your gun is a shotgun. And you shotgun then should gave a baginette to amplify your melee. Now, as you already rely on melee, you can as well take other things in Bloodshed tree. Then you can blade-critical-backstab people in stealth, and when your Many Must Fall chain is over, you can go back to shotgunning.

Another example - Maya's Converge and Ruin combo perfectly, Slagging, DOTing and even stunnng for a couple of seconds in area. But then there is a question - are you going to milk maximum from Phaselock, or you want to be not as relying on it? In first case, you want to have skills that give bonuses during phaselock, such as Wreck. Also you can use the fact that the guy you phaselocked stay in place, so is easy to hit. So, take Chain Reaction and he will "share" his pain with the rest of the crowd. You can just consider it a nice bonus, or you can combo it with a Maliwan SMG and Flicker and get near-guaranteed DOT on everybody in big area. But it all relies on Phaselock, so if you going to fight with something immune (such as boss), you have to use something else.

On the other hand, of cause, there is not that much good combos, and they start really kicking in at around middle of second playthrough. So, many people just get bored way before.
 

UserNamer

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jesus christ the gameplay is really bad! There is something intriguing about the visuals in the pre-sequel- at least for me- but the mechanics are unforgivable.

Cumbersome fights against bulletsponges, using weapons that need a magazine on average to kill a single enemy and with insane weapon dispersion- that manages to be be pointlessly easy anyway (also with 100% unpunishing resurrection mechanics).

"1 bazillion guns!" yeah because shooting a billion lasers to kill some bandit is the epitome of gun based fun, quantity > quality it seems

I think I'll try to continue the game.... but I hate the fun preventing school of game design
 

baturinsky

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They butchered most weapon classes in PS :( Only snipers can reliably hit critical points at distance now. On the other hand, you have much better mobility now (with low-grav jumping), so you can just close in and apply anything with high DPS directly to the forehead.
 

Talby

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Goddamnit, why can't my countrymen develop a good game for once. That woman you meet early on with the Australian accent is annoying as hell, too. She sounds like a single mum in her 40's living in the suburbs.
 

Caim

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I played a lot of Borderlands 1. Thought that the interface was shit. Played a bit of Borderlands 2. Interface was different: different kind of shit.

Is the interface in this game still shit?
 

Talby

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I played a lot of Borderlands 1. Thought that the interface was shit. Played a bit of Borderlands 2. Interface was different: different kind of shit.

Is the interface in this game still shit?

It's identical to Borderlands 2 IIRC, since it's basically an expansion pack.
 

Metro

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^ That. Game was outsourced to 2K Australia (whatever they were before being acquired). 90% or so copy/paste from BL2.
 

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