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KickStarter Bloodstained - Koji Igarashi's new metroidvania game

Ash

Arcane
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Oct 16, 2015
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6,531
Meh. I've played all the handhelds, and only Order of Ecclesia I consider better than Symphony in some respects (gameplay - primarily challenge). Dawn of Sorrow was shitty. PoR was good but held back by some notable things. The GBA ones were a varied mix too.
All the handhelds have had dumbed down RPG systems, and a distinct lack of symphony's dark Gothic art style, treading into animu territory ever so slightly instead, but they are more detailed overall. Inferior soundtracks too. All in all they're all good on some level though of course, even Dawn of Sorrow.
 

Somberlain

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Symphony is a great game but it had some flaws that were (gradually) removed from the later games. Namely

-plenty of corridors and rooms with same enemies copypasted over and over again

-awful balance and very easy difficulty level

-annoying inventory management since you couldn't sell items other than gems

-no real platforming

-way too much backtracking


Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin had an awful animu style but that was fixed for Order of Ecclesia which has the best artstyle in the series. I also prefer Ecclesia soundtrack over Symphony, aside from the actual sound quality, of course. Symphony has the best in-game graphics though.
 

Ash

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-no real platforming

Not really fixed by any of the sequels.

-awful balance and very easy difficulty level

Definitely, although mods can help with that.

-annoying inventory management since you couldn't sell items other than gems

The inventory was a mess, but not because you couldn't sell anything but gems. It just needed to be categorized.

-plenty of corridors and rooms with same enemies copypasted over and over again

Meh, it's only noticeable in some places of the inverted castle.
 

Somberlain

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Are there other difficulty mods for Symphony other than this? It's pretty good overall but it does some dumb stuff like nerfing overpowered items like Crissaegrim to the point were they are completely useless.
 

Ash

Arcane
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Oct 16, 2015
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Not that I am aware of. It's a shame, but that mod still helps a bunch. Made my recent playthrough a lot more enjoyable.
 

Dev_Anj

Learned
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Jan 14, 2015
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468
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Auldale, near the great river
I played the 3 DS Castlevanias recently. Dawn of Sorrow just felt like an obnoxiously slow game full of damage sponge monsters and I put it down few hours into it. POR and OOE fare better thankfully. From a technical quality perspective, I consider them equal, but I found POR to be the most fun out of the bunch. It just gives a lot of fuckaround potential with the sheer variety of setups you can make, and it has enough ingame absurdity that it would make for a good IT-HE series. I seriously want every Castlevania games to have jumping off NPC heads and organizing toad duels after playing it, they're just so damn silly that it's funny.
 

Somberlain

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Dawn of Sorrow is weaker than the other games but it has some cool bosses like Paranoia, Puppet Master and Menace.
 
Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
17,875
Location
Ottawa, Can.
Any Igavania is not the best game in the world, but handily, and I mean HANDILY beats what passes off for a "game" nowadays, and it is not even close. He makes 8-bit indie games look like the utter shite they are. No game that is discounted for a dollar within three months of release and looks like 1000 other games released in the same year is ever going to be good. With Iga, he is going to deliver on the platformer with a middle sized budget genre that was solely missing and used to be great. It makes all the difference in quality, because they can afford a long development time.

I backed this because I think he deserves the opportunity to make more. He's one of the good guys. And if you look at him in interviews he is extremely humble and respectful of his fanbase. The total polar opposite of the average purple haired Pacific Northwest area"indie game developper" from San Francisco, Seattle or Portland who whines about something on Twitter dozens of times a day and dumps on the very gamers that pay for their games.

By the day, the Igavanias all play great on an Android smartphone, with a cheap but good Bluetooth controller called the GameSir G3S (I made a thread about it), and the DS emulator called DraStic (which runs like a dream).
 
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nomask7

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
7,620
Are there other difficulty mods for Symphony other than this? It's pretty good overall but it does some dumb stuff like nerfing overpowered items like Crissaegrim to the point were they are completely useless.

In that thread, he posted a link to v1.0 of the mod, which only doubles enemy hp and damage, without touching anything else.
 

---

Arcane
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
1,724
Location
Italy
If someone knows italian, here's an interview with Igarashi.

Among the other things, he said that, if the sales will be good, Bloodstained will (probably) become a series.
He also stated that the game will be very nostalgia based ("a true classic experience").
The interviewer also asked him about the roguelike mode: "Why don't make the entire castle as a roguelike?" Igarashi said that he prefers hand-crafted levels over random ones, and so the roguelike will be just an entirely optional extra mode.
He was very vague about a possible porting to Nintendo Switch, and about the cooperative mode (basically he didn't say anything concrete about it): I can see why they delayed the game to 2018.
Finally, he said that he's glad to having left Konami (about this: he left the company because he had "a lot of projects" in mind, and no one was approved, so he was obviously frustrated and disappointed), since now he has much more creative freedom.
 
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Somberlain

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The interviewer also asked him about the roguelike mode: "Why don't make the entire castle as a roguelike?" Igarashi said that he prefers hand-crafted levels over random ones, and so the roguelike will be just an entirely optional extra mode.

:incline:

Level design is one of the most important aspects of a metroidvania, probably the most important, so hand-crafted is definitely the way to go. Optional extras can be whatever experimental or expendable stuff just fine.
 

---

Arcane
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Italy
Yeah, of course the interviewer was a complete idiot, since he asked a thing like that.
 

duanth123

Arcane
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
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This island earth
With Iga, he is going to deliver on the platformer with a middle sized budget genre that was solely missing and used to be great. It makes all the difference in quality, because they can afford a long development time.

I backed this because I think he deserves the opportunity to make more. He's one of the good guys.

Just promise me that if in late 2018 Iga starts selling JPGs for hundreds a pop we won't have to deprogram you and Somberlain
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Rotating camera? Rotate around what, a horizontal plane? It's a sidescroller...

Or am I missing something??
 

Dev_Anj

Learned
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468
Location
Auldale, near the great river
Somebody please tell Koji not to make levels like the Inverted Castle or the "dark" portraits in this one. I've played through both and he simply doesn't understand how to make that style of level work. I do like several aspects of his games but these stand out as weak points.
 

Somberlain

Arcane
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You don't need 3D gimmicks to do interesting 2D level design.

And even if we accept that some short 3D puzzle etc. sections might perhaps be kinda nice, maybe, it would be really cost inefficient to develop whole new 3D playstyles for these short sections. They would obviously be half-assed by necessity and would just make the game worse.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,864
Meh. I've played all the handhelds, and only Order of Ecclesia I consider better than Symphony in some respects (gameplay - primarily challenge). Dawn of Sorrow was shitty. PoR was good but held back by some notable things. The GBA ones were a varied mix too.
All the handhelds have had dumbed down RPG systems, and a distinct lack of symphony's dark Gothic art style, treading into animu territory ever so slightly instead, but they are more detailed overall. Inferior soundtracks too. All in all they're all good on some level though of course, even Dawn of Sorrow.

Symphony is a great game but it had some flaws that were (gradually) removed from the later games. Namely

-plenty of corridors and rooms with same enemies copypasted over and over again

-awful balance and very easy difficulty level

-annoying inventory management since you couldn't sell items other than gems

-no real platforming

-way too much backtracking


Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin had an awful animu style but that was fixed for Order of Ecclesia which has the best artstyle in the series. I also prefer Ecclesia soundtrack over Symphony, aside from the actual sound quality, of course. Symphony has the best in-game graphics though.


What the hell i am reading...

I recently replayed all vania games including SoTN but not OoE (leaved for later) and:

-SoTN DOESN'T have copy pasted enemies everywhere. Hell SotN has literally places where you have like 1 unique monster that isn't used anywhere else that dies instantly. I think you are confusing it with later games.
-Backtracing is issue with later vania games after Down of Sorrow as you get shops and trading proper which were existing previously but they were worthless since you could easily find better gear. AND unlike those two games souls mechanics wasn't that much expanded so you didn't need to grind and do something with those souls thus you didn't need to backtrack.
-def level isn't high for any vania game after super4. Even SotN isn't that hard.
-platforming in castelvania ? wut. I mean sure it is 2D game with platforms but that doesn't mean they are platformers. In fact DS ones vania games with added gimmick platform based stylus were worse than just lack of platforming in SotN

SotN is special because it is the first of chain of new vania games and rightfully is named the best new vania game but Dawn of Sorrow isn't really that much behind. Soundtrack wise i'd say DoS and SotN are about equal as both have some amazing tracks. Later PoR drops quality a bit and introduces way more backtracking that rest of the games in series and since it is a sequel to DoS it isn't interesting plot wise.

Point is that all new vania games are about equal in quality despite what people claim. Sure you could argue that some are better than other but that difference isn't huge as it sounds and they all pretty much are fun games to play and enjoy.

As for ART i agree. There is noticeable downgrade in that aspect after SotN and i don't mean character portraits.

OK since it is vania thread i should point out that anyone who doesn't know about what is Vampire Hunter D Bloodust should watch it. Easily the best vania thing that is not game ever to grace anyone eyes:

 
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Dev_Anj

Learned
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Jan 14, 2015
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468
Location
Auldale, near the great river
since it is a sequel to DoS it isn't interesting plot wise.
Minor nitpick, Portrait of Ruin is technically a sequel to Bloodlines, not Dawn of Sorrow. Also I don't think Symphony of the Night is the "best", nor are the CV hybrids after SOTN "equal" in quality, but you do raise some good points and those are subjective viewpoints anyway. I will agree that Symphony is definitely the most daring and inventive of all the CV hybrids though.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,864
since it is a sequel to DoS it isn't interesting plot wise.
Minor nitpick, Portrait of Ruin is technically a sequel to Bloodlines, not Dawn of Sorrow.

You are right. I am being dumb.
I meant DoS is sequel to Aria of Sorrow and what i said about DoS is about Aria of Sorrow.

Dawn of Sorrow is worse than Aria due to backtracking/shopstuff and generally feels weaker but it isn't that bad.

For some reason i confused Aria and Dawn.

and Aria like i said have amazing ost as SotN:
 

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,357
Location
Hyperborea
Bosses look really good in DoS/PoR/OoE and are more fun to fight than SotN bosses. I don't know what is meant by in-game graphics, but OoE is the best looking to me. More detail in backgrounds, sharper effects, vibrant yet atmospheric color palette.

These are great games, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Maybe the last games with memorable boss battles, besides Platinum games. Iga and co. are geniuses. The severe lack of challenge in SoTN (it's easier than any of the DS games and two of the GBA ones) makes it less satisfying to play to me, but it makes up for it in other areas and is not a long game. Even the GBA games are worth the time. I remember PoR getting kind of a lukewarm reception in comparison to previous games, but like was said up above, it's just fun as hell. Best Dracula battle, lots of variety. Like Bloodlines, the game it's a successor to, it doesn't get the praise it deserves. Will be playing it again soon. Playing through Julius mode in DoS currently, then Aria.
 
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