Blood Bowl 2

[Makabb]

Why a disaster if it improves your overall reliability on the pitch? Mighty blow is only a chance, blood bowl is all about reliability which neglects chance, chance is second. That's why you always take block as first skill, to increase your reliability.

If you want to win, you should have as highest reliability as you can, if all you care is gaining SPP and making injuries, then sure, you can even take mighty blow as first skill.

You can have full team of mighty blow and it will be a waste if you will be constantly rolling 4-5 armor, or even 11-12 and getting stunned all time because it's only 1 number.

Now might blow + claw on the other hand is a whole different story, but even with almost whole claw + mb team i often got unlucky and couldnt open up armor.

 

[Jaedar]

Why a disaster if it improves your overall reliability on the pitch? Mighty blow is only a chance, blood bowl is all about reliability which neglects chance, chance is second. That's why you always take block as first skill, to increase your reliability.

If you want to win, you should have as highest reliability as you can, if all you care is gaining SPP and making injuries, then sure, you can even take mighty blow as first skill.

You can have full team of mighty blow and it will be a waste if you will be constantly rolling 4-5 armor, or even 11-12 and getting stunned all time.

This is not really true.

While I do advocate block over MB every time, there is an argument to be made for the fact that going MB first will get you MB+block faster than going block first will. It can be quite valuable to get ahead in TV by getting spp quickly.

Also, you might waste block if you constantly roll pushes, skulls , ko or pow. But that's not really how statistics work, and an mb boosted roll that gives you ko or stun is still very worthwhile.

 

[Grunker]

I always marvel at people who honestly think they just worked out a completely hidden tactic that will beat strategies ground out by the best players through more than a decade. The polite arrogance of it is inspiring.

 

[Goldhawk]

It's worth noting that MB generally at least doubles you chances of inflicting a KO or injury, and the most reliable way to win a game with a bash team is to remove as many opposition players as possible. It's a MASSIVE bonus, particularly as Dwarves are too slow to have much of a chance of winning a match if both teams have 11 players on the pitch. See here:
http://bbtactics.com/armor-break-and-injury-tables/

In any case, taking Fend over MB isn't going to increase your reliability as it just doesn't really change much. Agility teams will still dodge away from you and bash teams will still throw a block at you. Not being able to follow up the block doesn't give much of an advantage, as they still choose where they push you and they can just follow up with another player instead if they want ... it's very situational and therefore kinda a waste of a skill slot. However if you're playing matchmaking it's quick and easy to level up a team, so you may as well test it yourself to see why things work and don't work.

 

[Galdred]

hmm now i was thinking of doing smth different also, going guard-stand firm-fend for the ultimate pitch control, this way with dodgey i can stand firm and with chaos orc and lizzardz i could fend and move away.

Nooooo! That's not how you do it at all.
You take MB so that you have less elves to track, and so that there are less beastman to claw through your armor.
MB definitely.
Stand firm main point is to have your guy with guard not to be too easily pushed back. But if you get guard on everyone, it is not as critical.
If you think this approach lacks finesse, you should definitely not play dwarves.
Lokhast, who was the first in the Cyanide public ladder ranking (if that makes any sense) for quite some time put MB first on his dwarves, and sacked them at their 3rd skill.
If you are matchmaking, you don't want your TV to raise faster than your efficiency, so don't take stand firm at all.
Go Guard-> MB-> retirement as dwarves shine at lower TV (except for a few kew players).
It is boring indeed, but it is the way matchmakign works.

 

[Makabb]

and sacked them at their 3rd skill.

Why sack them if you don't have to press the level up button ?

 

[Galdred]

That was from the early days of BB1. If you don't have to do it anymore, all the more reasons not to get any bloat skill!
Eidt: I remember now. You didn't have to in BB1 either.
The reason to sack lvl 3 linemen about to get lvl4 was that it was too late forthem to pick +1 ST .

 

[Darth Roxor]

the real secret strategy with d0rfs is to put shadowing on all your blockers

 

[Makabb]

the real secret strategy with d0rfs is to put shadowing on all your blockers

nice trolling, shadowing works worse the lower your movement

 

[Darth Roxor]

your point being?

 

[Makabb]

Nurgle is coming on 22nd

 

[vonAchdorf]

Also the GW board game has been released last week.

 

[Makabb]

Nurgle looks nice




Is Nurgle better team than Chaos ?

 

[Galdred]

Nurgle looks nice


Is Nurgle better team than Chaos ?

It is sturdier, but you pay for that by having an extremely slow team that cannot handle the ball well, but also prevents the opponent from doing much.
The problem is that it makes both you and your opponent get little XP per match.
I tried Nurgle after leading my Chaos team to division 1 in OCC, and I was not really convinced.

 

[Makabb]

I think of Nurgle as Chaos with more starting skills...... if you think of it this way also, why one would pick chaos ?

Pestigor is better beastman, same stats, more skills.

Warriors 1 less MA is pretty much nothing as they fight most of the time, 1 less AG only means you cannot move the ball with them and more skills on start and if you realy want you can still make warrior a ball carrier with sure hands and big hand

Beast is less annoying than minotaur with more usefull skills.


and regeneration on most of the players + no apo bloat

 

[Galdred]

1 less move on the chaos warriors is a huge difference, as is not being able to give them the ball to score and get XP. Warriors are 10K more than CW, and Pestigors 20K. It makes quite a noticeable difference actually.
Regen is good, but you pay for it (hence the +20k on Pestigors).
They are better at bashing, but they cannot play the ball much, while Chaos can save the day with some not totally incompetent ball handling.
Chaos can 2 turn, Nurgle cannot.

 

[Grunker]

Chaos is almost strictly better than Nurgle. Warriors with -1MA, -1AG is the difference between one of the downright best pieces (and THE best ST-killer) in the entire game and a run-of-the-mill bruiser. To make up for the loss they get a bunch of superflous skills that increase TV.

Nurgle's biggest strength is the ability to perform like a pseudo-Chaos team with a better Big Guy.

apo bloat

 

[sser]

I thought Nurgle were more anti-Elf/Rats because they have AOE modifiers on agility skills? Admittedly, I'm no pro at Blood Bowl and only play casually and occasionally. Last time I played I got some nice dice rolls and smashed up a Chaos team with a dainty Human one, inflicting Injuries left and right. And then I blitzed with an Ogre and killed the Chaos player's 4-STR MVP Ram and he couldn't do anything about it because he already used up all his apothecaries. He yelled at me and rage quit. Probably the hardest I've laughed at a game in some time. I had a dude 1-square from the endzone with the ball who got no SPP after the dude bailed, so that was a bummer.

 

[Galdred]

btw, Nurgle warriors are priced at 110, and they trade -1Ag (40k), -1MA(30k) for Regen(20k), for disturbing presence, foul appearance, Nurgle Rot, and regeneration:
FA, DP are all worth 20K, but Nurgle Rot is worth 0. Regen cannot be bought, but it is priced at 20k on the Pestigors.
So it is hardly a very good trade.
Sure, they perform better in a straight slaughterfest, but that also makes them pretty one dimensional.
I sure felt like I had many more options playing Chaos than Nurgle.
Indeed, they might be better at anti Ag team play out of the box, and the -1 Ag might not be so bad, but I don't think that makes up for the trouble they have getting the ball to the endzone with their abysmal Ag and speed.
From FUMBLL:

It's different for tournaments- the general UK consensus for tiers is (without looking at stats):

Tier 1: Chaos Dwarf, Dwarf, Wood Elves, Skaven, Norse, Lizardmen, Orc, Undead, Amazon

Tier 2: Chaos, Human, Khemri, Pact, Slann, Dark Elves, High Elves, Nurgle, Necromantic, Pro Elves

Tier 3: Halflings, Gobbos, Vamps, Ogres, Underworld

There is nothing official and many teams are open to debate. Also they change at low medium and high TV

But here is my run down teams people will dispute this alot no doubt.
Teams at a low TV -

Tier 1
Wood Elf
Orc
Norse
Dark Elf
High Elf
Pro Elf
Skaven
Humans
Undead
Lizardmen
Amazons
Dwarves
Chaos Dwarves

Tier2
Necromantic
Vampires
Slann
Chaos Pact
Chaos

Tier3
Khemri
Ogres
Flings
Goblins
Underworld
Nurgle

Medium TV

Top tier
Wood Elves
Dark Elves
High Elves
Pro Elves
Skaven
Orcs
Dwarves
Chaos Dwarves
Amazons
Lizardmen
Necromantic

Tier2
Humans
Norse
Vampires
Slann
Chaos Pact
Chaos
Nurgle
Undead
Khemri

Tier3
Ogres
flings
gobos
Underwold

High TV

top tier

Chaos Dwarf
Wood elves
Dark Elves
High Elves
Pro Elves
Skaven
Chaos
Nurgle
Chaos Pact

Tier 2
Orcs
Lizardmen
Slann
Humans
Necromantic
Undead
Khemri
Amazons
Underworld

Tier3
Norse
Vampires
Ogres
Flings
gobos
underwold

I agree with this:
Nurgle might be as good, or even better than Chaos at high TV (because they have an easier time against elves, and you don't face T2 or T3 teams much in the higher divisions), but they are abysmal early on, and are very slow to skill up.

 

[sser]

What about Bretts?

 

[hoverdog]

Fuck the haters, NURGLE THE BESTEST. They're a chaos team that's actually fun to play.

 

[Grunker]

I thought Nurgle were more anti-Elf

That's the intention, but the best Blood Bowl teams are strictly focused: wood elves and chaos consistently make up the bulk of Orca Cola's championship series. Basically, why have a -1 pass aura when you can be better at killing instead?

Some Nurgle teams do make it into the championship - they're a fine team. There's just a way from the rest of the BB-gang to the absolute top tier of woodies and chaos.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Nurglos can also be extremely trolly due to foul appearance, though, sometimes to the point of gamechanging.

It's a very fun team, but levelling it up from scratch is a nightmare. Still, I'd say it's a nightmare to level up any non-block basher team, so it doesn't make them all that different from chaos or lizardmen (at least when it comes to the saudis and krox).

 

[Makabb]

Where are my chaos dwarves ?

 

[Grunker]

Back in BB1 with the rest of us