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The Dark Eye Blackguards - turn-based tactical RPG set in The Dark Eye world

Siobhan

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Feb 25, 2013
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I finished Blackguards about a month ago, and I've been thinking about it for quite a bit since then. I went into it expecting the usual kind of codex favorite: one or two very strong areas (in this case combat, the character system, and the DSA setting), with everything else being rather lackluster. But Blackguards doesn't really have any areas where it clearly excels, it meanders between mediocre-bad C- and mediocre-good C+ for the most part.

Character system

The character system is incredibly simplified compared to DSA 4.1 and most of the apparent complexity is smoke and mirrors. Details are spoilered:
While there are many attributes, they are mostly a function of whatever special abilities you want to use. Combat skills involve little more than picking a skill and boosting it to max, maybe two additional ones later down the road if you want the melee expert trait. Non-combat skills pose no hard choices either. Just make sure somebody in your party with high initiative has senses at max so you can detect all traps at the beginning of the first turn, and keep athletics and self control at a decent level (sorry if those aren't the English terms, I played it in German). Other skills are nice-to-have but not essential. The spell selection is less impoverished, but there's also some clear winners there (anything that can buff/debuff the entire field at highest level). This leaves special abilities, which are also self-evident depending on the build: heavy-damage melee, spear-melee, ranged, mage.

The lack of depth in the character system isn't much of a problem for the first two chapters because experience points are still relatively scarce and party size is restricted, both of which make prioritization somewhat tricky. But once chapter 3 opens the experience flood gates the character system becomes at best an afterthought.

Combat

The combat system didn't click with me either, and once again it is a case of superficial complexity not translating into a deep system. As with the character system, this becomes much more pronounced from chapter 3 on. This has already been described several times in this thread, in particular the damage-multiplying maneuvers which are a no-brainer. If the to-hit chance is too low, a debuff will fix that (at least for enemies without broken to-hit calculation like those psychedelic plants). Not enough emphasis is put on positioning. Spears, for example, are not subject to DSA 4.1's close combat penalties, so that a spear-wielding party member need not worry about maintaining distance. Placing the party in a tightly-packed group has no disadvantages since few enemies have AoE attacks. There is no high ground and cover is rarely used. As long as the party can find a natural choke point (or create one via Fortifex), there is little to worry about.

Set Pieces

Most of the challenge thus arises from set-pieces, which are a matter of taste. Personally, I hate it when a game constantly changes rules and victory conditions, something that Blackguards does quite a bit in the first two chapters. Occasionally the game is also shockingly bad at signaling what those victory conditions are. For example, there is no way of knowing that
the alligators eating the meat in the arena will hurt the person you have to keep alive.
This has been described as puzzle-like gameplay by some here, but a good puzzle game has a few core mechanics and combines them into increasingly complex patterns. Blackguards feels closer to puzzles in a point-and-click adventure, each one of which may follow its own idiosyncratic logic (and each one of which invariably sucks). One never quite knows what a lever or push plate may do, so the first battle is often little more than a trial run. And things that one might expect to work do not (cutting a rope with a rope cutting arrow). This is something that actually improves from chapter 3 on, but mostly because the battles become much more cookie cutter at this point.

Little Freedom

The combat system also limits player freedom by an excessive amount so that one never feels in control. No matter the circumstances, there is no preparation phase to position the party or place traps (as in Expeditions Conquistador, for example). This is particularly egregious in cases where the party is clearly on the offensive, for instance the ambush on the caravan. And it also makes the dozens of same-ish battles after chapter 2 even more boring. Considering that Wizardry 8, Might and Magic 6+, the IE games, a streamlined tactical game like NuXcom, and even Diablo provide more freedom in how to approach engagements, this is simply inexcusable for a purely combat-focused RPG. Let's not even talk about the variety of approaches available to the player in JA2.

Little Enemy Variety

The game also suffers from a lack of enemy variety. While the total number of creatures encountered throughout the game is pretty impressive, an estimated 90% of encounters involve only humans. Discarding graphical differences, the majority of enemies fall into only a few categories: melee attack, melee attack with poison, melee attack that can temporarily incapacitate, ranged attack, and very rarely magic attack. As weird as it might seem, the difference between a cript louse and the average human mook is only quantitative in nature: HP, AT/PA, damage output. The AI is exactly the same.

Path Finding


All of this is compounded by several other shortcomings that aren't deal breakers but quickly become highly annoying. The main offender in this category is the atrocious path finding, with party members happily stepping into traps even after they have been detected. Routes have to be carefully mapped out by hand, provided one can do so: one mission requires the player to rescue an NPC that is being attacked by giant birds in the middle of a swamp. Even after the swamp holes have been uncovered, the NPC will happily run into one after the other, with each misstep adding a couple rounds to the fairly boring battle. This encounter all by itself makes Haste the most important spell in the game.

A Wasted Setting

The game's bland presentation also does a huge disservice to the setting. While I usually do not care about story, this one was not only predictable and generic but also incredibly wordy. I actively loathed every line of dialogue I had to click my way through. Most tellingly, the story is so detached from the settings that I wouldn't haven been able to figure out at what point in the history of Aventurien it is supposed to take place if it weren't for the existence of a winched crossbow. According to official lore, this type of crossbow was developed by Leonardo the Mechanicus who was born in 951BF. So the game must be set at some point after ~975BF.

The lowest point settings-wise is reached barely an hour into the game, when the player first comes to Neetha. Neetha is not only the capital of Chababien, it is also famous for its buildings of white and pink marble, its lavish gardens, and one of the biggest and most important temples of war goddess Rondra. The saint Thalionmel died near Neetha when she single-handedly held off an army of Novadi invaders, and to this day pilgrims come to Neetha to celebrate and commemorate this event. This is not just easily accessible lore from the source books, there are also two lengthy novels about the life of Thalionmel. Given Blackguard's focus, I did not expect more than one or two nicely rendered screens, maybe an establishing panorama shot to show off the beauty of the city and a statue of Thalionmel. What do we get instead? A dinky screen that makes Neetha look like a small Hanse town with a couple shacks. At that point I was, for lack of a better word, exquisitely Butthurt, with capital B.

tl;dr

There's some other minor points, but those do not really affect my verdict: Blackguards is not a horrible game, but it has no outstanding qualities either. The accolades some Codexers pile on its combat and character system are undeserved imho. Both may be better than what we got in other RPGs recently (though I wouldn't even put them above Dragonfall DC or Expeditions Conquistador), but they are not good enough to carry an entire game.
 
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Jimmious

Arcane
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Hey guys a question:
In the Mengbilla arena, after finishing the optional quest with the arena fights and while being in Ch.4, I get a "sword icon" with the option to "Fight in the arena". Did it once, got a couple o ducats and the option is still there. Wtf is this, just a way to farm exp and gold? Or do they end eventually with some kind of reward or whatever?
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
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Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
There are 5 optional arena fights, and finishing them completes the relevant side quest. Not much of a reward though.
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
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7,817
Ah, I see that a repeatable fight has been added after launch. So the maze battle would be the last regular one, then it's just repetition.
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
If I recall correctly, you get one of the better armor sets in the game for winning the five fights. Whether your powergaming tendencies validate the tedium of the Great Crypt Lice Lever-Pulling Adventure, I leave to you. (Hint: No, NO, NOTHING CAN VALIDATE THAT.)
 

Watser

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
The lice maze can at least be beaten with 2 characters, whereas the one pulling the center lever has to sacrifice himself because fuck getting that person back out again.
 

Jimmious

Arcane
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May 18, 2015
Messages
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yeah I won that maze fight. Disgusting. Generally the whole concept of lice in this game is...bad. Whenever I see them in any level I feel Naurim and his "I hate lice" mentality are right on spot
 

Duellist_D

Savant
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Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
:necro:

Blackguards 1 and 2 are both in the new Humble Bundle, you'll get them for a bit less than 6$ atm.
If you haven't played the first and have any love for tactic games, buy it.
The second might or might not be the money, even if you already have the first, not sure about that, only got it now.
 

SniperHF

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
1,110
So I'm like 10 hours in and it's already pulled the LOL I STEAL ALL YOUR GEAR trope on me twice, how many more times is it gonna do this?
 

Emily

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,068
Damn i should replay this.
It is such a great RPG.
Really feel sad for them fucking up the 2nd part
 

Telengard

Arcane
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So I'm like 10 hours in and it's already pulled the LOL I STEAL ALL YOUR GEAR trope on me twice, how many more times is it gonna do this?
More time than you want to think about. Basically, the plotting sucks.

But you're almost to the point where the character sheet trivializes gear anyways, so you won't care about lost gear anymore, beyond the irritation factor of the number of clicks for re-outfitting your guys.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Itemization is the game's biggest weakness. If it had great itemization it would be nearly perfect (barring shitty story that no one cares about anyway).

Yeah I won that maze fight. Disgusting. Generally the whole concept of lice in this game is...bad. Whenever I see them in any level I feel Naurim and his "I hate lice" mentality are right on spot

I liked the lice maze...

...yeah, I know.
 
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Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
So I'm like 10 hours in and it's already pulled the LOL I STEAL ALL YOUR GEAR trope on me twice, how many more times is it gonna do this?
More time than you want to think about. Basically, the plotting sucks.

But you're almost to the point where the character sheet trivializes gear anyways, so you won't care about lost gear anymore, beyond the irritation factor of the number of clicks for re-outfitting your guys.

If I remember correctly, you lose your gear in chapter 1 for the dwarven brother's game and in chapter 2 for the arena (but get it back eventually in both cases). After that there are only the flashback sequences, where you are back to level 1 as well.
 
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Messages
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I guess Daedalic is done with RPGs for good?

They hit gold with Blackguards because the old school crowd was chomping at the bit for the KickStater RPGs but couldn't sustain interest into the sequel. With the market the way it is they'll probably continue to scrape by with Adventure games.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I guess Daedalic is done with RPGs for good?

They hit gold with Blackguards because the old school crowd was chomping at the bit for the KickStater RPGs but couldn't sustain interest into the sequel. With the market the way it is they'll probably continue to scrape by with Adventure games.
They fucked up when they tried to streamline the sequel in all the wrong ways.
 

HotSnack

Cipher
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
650
I'm not sure I'd say that. Blackguards still holds up very well even when compared to all the ks rpgs that are finally coming out. It still has some of the best encounter designs I've seen. They dropped the ball with the sequel when they started dumbing things down to apprease the casual audience. Which only drove away the hardcore that saw the redflags, and the casuals were already put off by the first game and have moved onto others.
 
Joined
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I'm not sure I'd say that. Blackguards still holds up very well even when compared to all the ks rpgs that are finally coming out. It still has some of the best encounter designs I've seen. They dropped the ball with the sequel when they started dumbing things down to apprease the casual audience. Which only drove away the hardcore that saw the redflags, and the casuals were already put off by the first game and have moved onto others.

If best encounter designs was good enough to sustain 500,000 sales then the landscape of RPG market would have been very different the past 15 years.
 

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