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Black Mesa - legendary vaporware Half-Life remake finally out

Gersen

Educated
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
17
The biggest difference between HL1 and HL2 can be summarized in terms of level design.

HL1 levels were still the main element of its gameplay: just like every other old school doom-like, exploring and fighting against the environment was the central aspect in the game.
But what differed with other shooters of its time was the presentation: instead of just having keys and opening doors, you had scripts that made things look different. But in essence, the gameplay remained the same.

A good example of this is the 'Blast pit' level: it follows the traditional fps structure of finding elements and fighting through the level to pass through the pit. Only difference is that instead of opening a door, a script is used to blast the tentacles in the way. The script does not alter the gameplay, just its presentation.

Another example is the focus HL1 put on IA: it doesn't change the nature of combat, but made things a bit more interesting.

Meanwhile, in HL2 the gameplay had changed its nature to the script-centric approach we all know as decline. The levels were just used as tools to throw in various gameplay elements (vehicles, gravity gun, arenas, puzzles, cut-scenes, etc.), and they were not the game anymore. Most of the time, exploring the levels in HL2 is like walking in a soulless corridor that will lead you to the next attraction (there are exceptions, Ravenholm is one of them).

I still think the HL games are overrated. HL2 isn't a good game to begin with, it had excellent art direction and 3d engine, but sadly that's all it had. On the other hand, HL1 was a great game, but not as revolutionary as we may think: it just did the FPS thing very well.

In terms of FPS, I think we can date the decline back to 2002 with the release of Medal of Honor: Allied Assault. That thing was the first FPS that put immersion above gameplay, destroying level design and traditional FPS as a result.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,857
I disagree HL1 even now is better FPS than most of FPS games precisely because of level design where most of FPS now are just corridor shooters. Where HL1 builds suspence other games just point you to next enemy to kill.

Though as i said Opposing Force imo is even better than HL1
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,857
With Valve having become the Saudi Arabia of the gaming industry, can we still entrust them to pull off a worthy HL3?

You assume there will be HL3.

I think they are at point where they don't know how to end HL saga and most of people who worked on earlier games are not in Valve anymore or pursued different things.

Remember HL2 was almost 10 years ago already

There are some rumors about Source 2 in the air but at this point it is stupid to asume they care about teh half life when they have DOTA2 which has already like 1mln players at any given moment and it is only growing + steam that earns them a lot more...
 

Wirdschowerdn

Ph.D. in World Saving
Patron
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
34,562
Location
Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar
It's been leaked countless times that Valve has L4D3 and HL3 in development. They got however a lot of trouble with the Source Engine 2 and making it work well on Linux. Their folly and stubborness to have SteamOS and OpenGL become an industry standard has only delayed things. Then also add ValveTime(tm).
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,716
Location
California
There are some rumors about Source 2 in the air but at this point it is stupid to asume they care about teh half life when they have DOTA2 which has already like 1mln players at any given moment and it is only growing + steam that earns them a lot more...
We live in strange times, but I think it's fair to say that Valve has an incentive to develop Half Life 3 for the same reason that Hollywood Studios make art films; it's not so much about maximizing profit as about maintaining a certain stature. Plus, it is entirely plausible that Gabe would want to make it simply for nostalgic reasons. While it is mindblowing that the industry could change so much that HL3 is a vanity/art project, from Valve's standpoint, it probably would be.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
What's the point if the gunplay "feels good" but the rest of the game is banal shit? Killing Floor, Serious Sam? Really? Shut your cunt mouth already you embarrassing buffoon.
Oh the irony... the irony... been awhile since you started a 'I HIGHLY ANTICIPATE THIS GAME' thread on the latest console trash, Morggie.

:d1p:
 

Psquit

Arcane
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
1,921
Location
Ushuaia
e72719d5206cf3edad5ce7b77a31c5f4.jpg
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,231
Too much scripted events imo is the only real biggie and it wasn't even that bad in HL2, because they weren't cinematic cutscenes, just people talking some crap, while you toss cans at them.

Which is worse, because they both waste time but normal cutscenes can be skipped. HL2 cutscenes can't be skipped, they can only suck your soul away for several minutes as you listen to another "endearing" moment from Alyx.

I'm surely no expert on shooters, but other things seem Skyway level nagging. Weapon variety? There is a pistol, a shotgun, and assault rifle, sniper rifle, nades and nade launcher + assorted melee weapon. They are and have been in all ef-pee-eses i ever played (not that much admittedly) and i don't remember them ''vastly different'' apart from their obvious functional differences or damage/range ratings. Introduction of gravity gun actually is adding to variety. Had lots of fun with it, gimmick or not.

You forgot the SMG (not Rifle) has an attached grenade launcher. You forgot the Tau Cannon, shooting through walls and bouncing shit around. You forgot the gluon gun. You forgot the Hornet gun, infinite ammo and aimable around corners. You forgot grenades could be cooked, a rarity in most games. You forgot remote mines and trip mines. And you forgot Snarks, fucking awesome little buggers.

Gravity Gun is just boring and dumb. It would be less dumb if it wasn't the primary gun for like 1/2 of HL2 and didn't force you to pull it out every 30 feet in the other 1/2, but that's HL2.

You are surely rose coloring enemy AIs of past. They have always been shit and are still shit. Basically not much progress has been made since doom. And i say it as a person who absolutely suck at action games. Difficulty usually comes from environmental hurdles. Like maps, where you can't get any cover, or open spaces, where you can be easily ambushed, or a guy with a shotgun camping right behind the corner of narrow one way corridor.

AI soldiers pretty intelligently threw grenades even when they didn't know where you were, which meant you couldn't sit still in the same location for long. AI grunts used Hive Hand to dumbfire around corners at you. AI ninja bitches were... ninja bitches. And I wasn't specifically saying that all of the AI enemies were super smart or difficult, but that they were *different*, and generally encouraged you to use different tactics and weapons against them as a result. The number of modern games that have lots of different enemies is astonishingly low. In HL2 you fight humanoid soldiers, humanoid zombies, and... the antlions (but they suck balls anyway). HL1 has Marines, Ninjas, Zombies, Controllers, Grunts, Vortiguants, Bullsquids, Houndeyes, and I'm probably forgetting some.

Puzzles are always gimmicks. There are no ''puzzles'' in real life combat environment.
No they aren't. Of course there are. Tell me how the solution to Blast Furnace is a gimmick?

Modern games ''emphasize mobility'' way more, because they are much more open ended and you never know from where the enemy sniper could be eying you out. Old shooters where mostly corridors upon corridors, where your ''mobility'' means ''go forward guns blazing''.
hehehe, get a load of this guy. He thinks modern FPS emphasizes mobility.

Modern FPS is far less open in level design, and usually effectively scripted. HL1 is only playable "go forward guns blazing" on easymode difficulties.

Large ''spread of environments''.
Initial labs/offices, large indoor facilities, outdoors stuff, the cliffside, Zen. It generally keeps changing things up with short range, mid range and long range combat past the early game. There is arguably not a ton of visual variety indoors, but this isn't some themepark rollercoaster ride like HL2 is, it's a game about bad things happening in a secret mountain research base. You'll play in said secret mountain research base, obviously.

Shoe-in gimmicks lel
It's not a gimmick if it improves gameplay.

Dunno what
- Very fast movement speed.
means.
It means very fast movement speed. It's a pretty simple English sentence. Should I repeat it a third time? The speed at which you move is quite fast in HL1.

Can't comment on difficulties, because i suck and always play on ''normal'' and it's enough of a challenge as it is.
Git gud and play on Hard or you really shouldn't be talking about the game, or genre as a whole. You'd probably have a better perception of the worth of all of HL1's advanced arsenal if you fought enemies difficult enough to force you to learn to use it (again, Marines and Grunts will chew you up if you "go in guns blazing"). At the very least you'd be able to remember that weapons exist beyond quote "pistol, a shotgun, and assault rifle, sniper rifle, nades and nade launcher + assorted melee weapon".

But scripted events/cinematic scenes. Yeah, those things can actually ruin the game if they are the main focus like in some of the modern action vidjas. It's like devs think you want to watch a shitty B movie instead of playing the damn game.
BUT WE NEED TO PUSH THE MEDIUM FORWARD WITH OUR INTERACTIVE IMMERSHUAN SIMULATOR SO YOU CAN FEEL LIKE YOU ARE REALLY AN AVERAGE PERSON THRUST INTO A LIFE OF SHOOTING HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE IN THE FACE. :dead:
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,515
HL1 > HL2. Explaining why is a waste of time. It ought to be obvious to anyone who isn't a figgit scrub.
 

Wirdschowerdn

Ph.D. in World Saving
Patron
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
34,562
Location
Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar
Looks like the Steam version will be out ..ugh..soon.

http://forums.blackmesasource.com/i...iries-about-the-mod/?postID=599162#post599162

The Steam integrations, MP and huge improvements across the board the selling points of the Steam release. Those SP improvements include:

Some new weapon models, some of the lower res models up-res'd
Almost entirely reanimated weapon set
Rewritten soldier AI
Entirely rerecorded and rewritten soldier voices
Entirely rebalanced singleplayer (yours truly!)
Loads of new models/props and textures to replace older, lower fidelity stuff
Craploads of bugfixes and improvements
Much higher game stability due to newer Source engine build and access to engine-level fixes
Better optimisation in places (particularly Lambda Core)
New particle effects and sounds for many weapons

That's just off the top of my head. It's very far from just a few nice new textures. There's plenty more which I'm sure I forgot. As well as supporting the dev team who've poured so much heart and soul into this game. If you're not interested in any of those things, then you can always stick with the mod release.


http://forums.blackmesasource.com/i...iries-about-the-mod/?postID=599432#post599432

The brunt of the work has been done in skill.cfg. I spent a long time on a careful balance pass, comparing mod values to HL1 values, and adjusting to bring them closer together where I thought it would be more fun - based on my own thoughts, the team's thoughts, and community feedback. I also worked with the programmers to add in some variables for things we couldn't previously change, such as the Vortiguant charge speed, or the Marines movement speed, etc.

The most notable change is probably the Marines. Not only did our lead programmer rewrite their AI entirely, their values and behaviour were adjusted a lot too. They're no longer aimbots, but are instead much more like HL1 in that they run around a lot (and move fast), and are very good at finding angles and applying pressure on you with nades and tactics. Testers and the team seem to think they're way more fun and less frustrating to fight now, and I certainly think that too. In particular some of the tougher set pieces like the QE ambush are really fun now because there's a lot of unpredictable, run and gun action. The LAV is also tough now.

The Vorts now behave much more like their HL1 selves - they're tankier, hit much harder, but charge slower so it's much more possible to dodge their shots. They're a bit more of a challenge now. In general, the Xen aliens are tougher than before, with a few exceptions such as the Houndeyes.

Weapons wise, they've been normalised a bit - there were too many weapons which were too good and a few which were too weak. The MP5 in particular is the mainstay weapon now, as it should be. Almost everything about it has been changed and it looks, feels, and plays totally badass now. New model, animation, sound, values, particle effects, bullet casings - the works. Other weapons have been tweaked too but the MP5 is definitely the main one.

We also have a brand new recoil system which replaces the old spread system. Before, bullets would fire within x degrees inside their cone of accuracy. This was frustrating as it meant at longer ranges you could be aiming perfectly on target, but the gun would not fire straight due to spread and would miss because the game randomly decided it should. (Note: this is how spread works in the majority of shooters, Black Mesa was no exception). But now, rather than random "spread" determining where your bullets randomly land (which hurt the MP5 in particular), the guns actually recoil properly and move your aim around with each shot, forcing you to adjust your aim. This is much more realistic and fun as it means you end up actually missing because your aim goes off the target. We've struck a good balance with the recoil - full auto MP5 for example is tough to keep on target at range but it is possible, making player skill more of a factor.

These are all subject to change and we're currently still testing all of these new values and designs - but the tester and team response thus far has been really good. We're excited to get the new balance changes out there and see what the community thinks - and make further adjustments and tweaks post release.

http://forums.blackmesasource.com/i...s-information-about/?postID=600620#post600620

We'll get you guys up to speed on the game's development, relatively soon. And I don't mean SOON™, I mean soon soon.
 

yellowcake

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
2,907
Location
Alas! in my skull
I've heard it's missing large chunks of the surface parts (surface tension?), which were the most fun IMO. Is it true?

Edit:

Then again I'm currently replaying HL1 in it's original look, that is without hi-res texture pack that came with OF, on a PII 450 MHz + VooDoo3 + CRT and I find the visuals excellent.
 
Last edited:

Dalek

Novice
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
14
The most notable change is probably the Marines. Not only did our lead programmer rewrite their AI entirely, their values and behaviour were adjusted a lot too. They're no longer aimbots, but are instead much more like HL1 in that they run around a lot (and move fast), and are very good at finding angles and applying pressure on you with nades and tactics. Testers and the team seem to think they're way more fun and less frustrating to fight now, and I certainly think that too. In particular some of the tougher set pieces like the QE ambush are really fun now because there's a lot of unpredictable, run and gun action. The LAV is also tough now.
Hgggng... It was my main grip with the remake, I'm glad to see they've improved it a lot. I managed to do it in hard, but the aimbot marines were bitches , especially cause MY MP5 was shit. Can't wait for it.
Not so excited for Xen as it isn't my fav part of the game, but still looking forward to it.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Nobody is going to play the Xen bits anyway.

They know that was a shit part of the original game, hence they wanna do something more special and ambitious with it in BMS.

Hopefully they will try to accommodate stuff from old concept art. Maybe outtake aliens as well?

Anyway, no one who has made it through RESIDUE PROCESSING has any rights to complain about XEN.
And why does no one complain about RP in the first place?
:decline:
It was bland and boring chapter revolving entirely around platforming through all sorts of garbage compactors and conveyor belts, if anything this was THE chapter that could be cut out in about 90% with no loss to the gameplay.

I've heard it's missing large chunks of the surface parts (surface tension?), which were the most fun IMO. Is it true?
It seems so.

Probably for the same reason they cut non-linear parts from ON A RAIL:
On A Rail was examined by the team, and a design document was drafted by level designer David Gillen which offered various possibilities configurations of the chapter with varying lengths due to cutting or leaving certain areas. The end result involved removing many unnecessary tunnel segments and reducing the amount of looping back on oneself to avoid player confusion and frustration.
:kingcomrade:

Then again I'm currently replaying HL1 in it's original look, that is without hi-res texture pack that came with OF, on a PII 450 MHz + VooDoo3 + CRT and I find the visuals excellent.
HL had very good visuals, blurry textures on geometry were the worst part, but not everything can be Unreal.
 

Icewater

Artisanal Shitposting™
Patron
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,954
Location
Freedomland
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
Sounds awesome, those marines desperately needed a re-balance. I suspected that after the first release they'd be so tired of the whole thing that it'd be the end but I'm glad to see they're committed.
 

skacky

3D Realms
Developer
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
2,506
Location
The City
To be honest On A Rail was by far the least enjoyable area in the game. The cuts they did to Surface Tension were completely unnecessary though.
 

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