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Black Mesa - legendary vaporware Half-Life remake finally out

Jaesun

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Half Life is still one of the best shooter I have ever played. It's awesome <3

Half Life 2 is awesome up until the Pilck up the can part. Then it all goes to hell.

Though I thought the giant fucking walker things were pretty cool. Very War of the Worlds. Played it once, never ever have any desire to play it again.
 

Metro

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It has great atmosphere but the gunplay is mediocre (which isn't surprising since the gravity gun is the main focus) and the vehicle sections are awful.
 

Jick Magger

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All the other weapons in the game just feel weak. The foley for most of them are really sub-par, most gunshots either give off a really pathetic popping sound or a dull wet thud when fired except maybe the shotgun, which is just decent-sounding. It really doesn't help that a majority of the weapons have this plastic-design to them (or in some cases designed on real 'cutting edge' weapons) that make them just look like you're firing nerf guns.
 

Lyric Suite

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It has great atmosphere but the gunplay is mediocre (which isn't surprising since the gravity gun is the main focus) and the vehicle sections are awful.

Gameplay is mediocre and the AI was worse than the original. Also, the writing in the game was fucking shit. It felt like it was written by a committee and it had none of the subtle character of the first game.

Visuals were very nice though. Even to this day the game looks very good and they obviously had quite a few talented artists, animators and designers working for them.
 

Carrion

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I don't know if the weapons in HL2 were generally that bad. The pistol and the SMG were pretty weak indeed and would've definitely benefited from better sounds, and the low amount of weapons in general was slightly disappointing, but the shotgun (especially with the secondary firing mode), magnum and crossbow were all very cool. I also liked the pulse rifle, which was visually kind of half-assed (especially the reload animation) but felt appropriately powerful and had a great secondary firing mode. The gravity gun was a gimmick, but it was mostly optional throughout the game and let you actually kill stuff in creative ways, so I didn't mind it at all. Episode One was pretty much Gravity Gun: The Game, though, which made it easily the worst part of HL2.

As a rollercoaster ride I still found HL2 very enjoyable because of its variety, encounter design (despite the low amount of enemy types and some overused boss fights), atmosphere and great setting. The environmental storytelling was very good, but the characters were basically there just to suck the player's dick, and the actual plot was nonexistent (to me it seemed clear from the start that they were just making things up on the way rather than having a clear vision on how it's supposed to end), only providing some kind of a reason for travelling from A to B for five hours. Like in HL1's case it has probably been over-analyzed by fans and given much more "depth" than it actually has.
 

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Half Life 2 is awesome up until the Pilck up the can part. Then it all goes to hell.

Though I thought the giant fucking walker things were pretty cool. Very War of the Worlds. Played it once, never ever have any desire to play it again.

Why is the can part bad? You can put it in the bin and he waves you on, or you can throw it back at him and he runs at you. You can outrun him and it is a pretty fun section of little consequence.
 

Jaesun

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Er maybe I didn't say that right. The Pick up the can part is perhaps THE BEST PART of Half Life 2. After that, it all turn to shit (except for the huge fucking walkers, that was awesome).
 

Akratus

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I don't get you people hating on HL2 but sucking HL1's dick.

Which shooters are better? Mind you, that would be any pure shooter, not an rpg fps like Deus Ex.
 
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All the other weapons in the game just feel weak. The foley for most of them are really sub-par, most gunshots either give off a really pathetic popping sound or a dull wet thud when fired except maybe the shotgun, which is just decent-sounding. It really doesn't help that a majority of the weapons have this plastic-design to them (or in some cases designed on real 'cutting edge' weapons) that make them just look like you're firing nerf guns.

The Shotgun in HL2 is honestly the only good gun the in game. It's almost a straight copy from HL1, which was itself a godly shotgun on the level of DOOM's, with HL2 adding a very nice big blood splash whenever you shot someone with it. Problem was that the enemies were crap. Normal HL2 soldiers were weaker than HL1 soldiers yet still sat in this uncomfortable zone where they couldn't quite die in a single shot, and there was basically no hit stun in the game so the shotgun felt weaker than it really was. Furthermore there was no real big-boy enemy like HL1's alien grunts, who HAD to be hitstunned in close combat.

On an unrelated note I installed HL:Source to run through a few areas and wow, I thought it was supposed to be faithful. In fact Valve really screwed with the balance. The SMG/Rifle is now like 2x as powerful and you can just bumrush enemy Soldiers/Vortis on Hard, and apparently they fucked up the Alien Grunt locational armor. Really annoys me the way Valve feels the need to "improve" older games, from what I've heard they've been screwing with HL2 as well.

I don't get you people hating on HL2 but sucking HL1's dick.

Which shooters are better? Mind you, that would be any pure shooter, not an rpg fps like Deus Ex.

Depends, do you want me to compare HL2 to arena shooters or modern shooters? It sits on this midway between them that relatively few games occupy. This in itself wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that HL2 just does a bad job at it.

Other games released aroudn the same time that I would say compare favorably to HL2 and would place midway on the Arena-Modern spectrum would be Halo, C&C: Renegade, Alien Vs. Predator games. I'd even throw in Doom 3 if we're talking about pure shooter mechanics, which were mostly held back by technical limitations preventing large areas and lots of enemies like in the originals. Aside from the shittastic shotgun of course.
 
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Gnidrologist

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I don't get you people hating on HL2 but sucking HL1's dick.

Which shooters are better? Mind you, that would be any pure shooter, not an rpg fps like Deus Ex.
That's just codex codexing. Hardcorer than thou shit. YO MAN I DUN PLAY GAEMS BEFORE 1989 PONG > EVERYTHING. ALSO, POPAMOLA LOLOL DURR GIB KKK NOW
HL2 is great shooter.
 

Akratus

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I don't so much have a problem with anyone hating on the half-lives, they are shooters after all. I just don't understand liking one and hating the other. They are both well designed shooters, technically advanced for their time and have good writing. I don't see much of a quality split between them.
 

Turrul

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HL2 felt like a tech-demo from time to time, while HL1 never had this feel.
 

Akratus

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Other games released aroudn the same time that I would say compare favorably to HL2 and would place midway on the Arena-Modern spectrum would be Halo, C&C: Renegade, Alien Vs. Predator games. I'd even throw in Doom 3 if we're talking about pure shooter mechanics, which were mostly held back by technical limitations preventing large areas and lots of enemies like in the originals.

You would call those games better than HL2? Are you fucking with me?
 
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I don't so much have a problem with anyone hating on the half-lives, they are shooters after all. I just don't understand liking one and hating the other. They are both well designed shooters, technically advanced for their time and have good writing. I don't see much of a quality split between them.

HL1 had some of the best FPS mechanics, and it completely reveled in them. HL2 watered down almost everything that HL1 was and instead tried to distract the player by filling up time with gimmicks (gravity gun, vehicles, cutscenes, NPC interactions and help in levels).

Hate is perhaps a strong word. When I say stuff like "HL2 is shit", I'm talking from the cynical perspective of everything not as good as the thing I like being shit. In reality my opinion towards HL2 is more of just a disdainful "meh". It wasn't horrible the first time through but I can't think of a single level of HL2 I'd be the least bit inclined to replay other than Ravenholm and the finale of Episode 2.

You would call those games better than HL2? Are you fucking with me?

Yes? No?
 

Gnidrologist

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Too much scripted events imo is the only real biggie and it wasn't even that bad in HL2, because they weren't cinematic cutscenes, just people talking some crap, while you toss cans at them.

I'm surely no expert on shooters, but other things seem Skyway level nagging. Weapon variety? There is a pistol, a shotgun, and assault rifle, sniper rifle, nades and nade launcher + assorted melee weapon. They are and have been in all ef-pee-eses i ever played (not that much admittedly) and i don't remember them ''vastly different'' apart from their obvious functional differences or damage/range ratings. Introduction of gravity gun actually is adding to variety. Had lots of fun with it, gimmick or not.

You are surely rose coloring enemy AIs of past. They have always been shit and are still shit. Basically not much progress has been made since doom. And i say it as a person who absolutely suck at action games. Difficulty usually comes from environmental hurdles. Like maps, where you can't get any cover, or open spaces, where you can be easily ambushed, or a guy with a shotgun camping right behind the corner of narrow one way corridor.

Puzzles are always gimmicks. There are no ''puzzles'' in real life combat environment.

Modern games ''emphasize mobility'' way more, because they are much more open ended and you never know from where the enemy sniper could be eying you out. Old shooters where mostly corridors upon corridors, where your ''mobility'' means ''go forward guns blazing''.

Large ''spread of environments''. :hahano:

- Rocket jumping and other associated jumping techniques.
- A large spread of environments, including a low-grav world.
Shoe-in gimmicks lel

Dunno what
- Very fast movement speed.
means.

Can't comment on difficulties, because i suck and always play on ''normal'' and it's enough of a challenge as it is.
But scripted events/cinematic scenes. Yeah, those things can actually ruin the game if they are the main focus like in some of the modern action vidjas. It's like devs think you want to watch a shitty B movie instead of playing the damn game.
 

Metro

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Shooters better than HL2 (just off the top of my head):

Any Serious Sam game (yes, including 2)
Killing Floor (ignoring level design/content)
Any Doom game (including Doom 3)
Shadow Warrior (pick your version)
Duke Nukem 3D
Return to Castle Wolfenstein

...and I'm sure I can think of at least a dozen others if I bothered. Honestly, HL2 is on par with RAGE.

People overrate the game because of the CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE and OMG GORDON FREEMAN crap.

I'm not saying it's a bad game. I think it's a 95+ or something crazy on metacritic. I'd give it a 70 and, again, it's getting points for the atmosphere and visuals in that total. Ignoring that stuff it would be closer to a 60.
 

Metro

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Coming from you the irony is overwhelming. Killing Floor is a bad game? The gunplay is some of the best of any FPS you untermensch. And, yeah Serious Sam 2 was consolized and mediocre but... guess what... still better than HL2.
 

Perkel

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Could you specify them?

One of the best shotguns
Amazing sound of submachine gun.
That rocket launcher.
Dat charged laser
Dat maneating creatures
Day C4
Only grenades sucked sucked due to their gravity but at same time they had good "boom" factor

In comparison all HL2 counterparts feel weak and sound awful.

HL1 is superior to HL2 in every way. Each gun was simply more complex in nature than each gun in HL2.
And that is HL1, now Opposing Force had even better mechanics and imo it was even better game than HL1.
 

Gnidrologist

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These are all superficial things, although i agree that weapon sounds in HL2 sucked. It has been modded in and out though.

I never understand when people say things like ''dat shotgun''. Does it mean it has high damage rating so it's easier to kill things with it? How does that enter into quality of gameplay?
 

Perkel

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These are all superficial things, although i agree that weapon sounds in HL2 sucked. It has been modded in and out though.

I never understand when people say things like ''dat shotgun''. Does it mean it has high damage rating so it's easier to kill things with it? How does that enter into quality of gameplay?

There is strick difference between damage and rawness of a weapon.
Shotgun in HL1 pack a punch and has other mode 2 shells at same time.


BTW best shotgun is in Soldier of Fortune 1:



SOF 2 also had good one:

 

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