Black Desert - Korean MMO - Tent cities, conservating clothing, Oh my

[Saark]

Seeing how I never had any graphical glitches, I'm guessing that it has to do with how powerful your PC is. I would imagine that none of the reviewers have anything less than an i7 and at least a GTX 960 and would never dare of thinking about testing games on reasonable specs to see how it plays. The game does look great when maxed out, would look even better if you could disable the goddamn post processing and bloom...

Something that annoys me quite hard, especially compared to the korean version which didn't have this "feature", is how RNG-heavy endgame PvP actually is. Fighting a higher-leveled player is annoying enough already since you need to have insane amounts of accuracy just to be able to hit him, but having stuff like stun/knockdown resistances added in our version is just plain retarded. It caps at 60% but having all 4 of your PvP disables resisted in addition to actually having to hit them in the first place is just retarded. No idea why they would add such a mechanic.

People are already hitting level 55 which was supposed to take 1-2 months of nonstop grinding (thats how long it took in the KR version), so unless you seriously commit yourself to leveling past 50 you will be pretty much useless in PvP once the Mediah update hits in ~2months since these people will probably level to 60 in less than a month too then. Good luck hitting a lvl 60 player when you're just 52 or 53 yourself.

 

[Drakron]

Oh there are glitches like hair glowing at night because of what I assume someone made the lightmap for the hair textures backyards.

PvP will always be retarded, like it or not the fact is this was created as a F2P game and its roots will always show, the "only" saving graces is they disabled selling Store stuff on the Auction House so you dont just have someone just buying their way to +15/20 weapons with the Cash Shop->Auction House route that is a double edge sword since you always lose to how can grind longer.

Hitting Lv55 is just happening with those people, I doubt many players are that high outside the $100 buyers that got it for Headstart and then just Team Farmed their way to 50 ...

 

[Gerrard]

Fighting a higher-leveled player is annoying enough already since you need to have insane amounts of accuracy just to be able to hit him

So this game has action combat and yet still has "to hit" chance? What the fuck?

 

[Saark]

Well, your damage doesn't really change from lvl 30-50 since the only way to scale damage is upgrading your weapon (and you'll most likely have it at +7 at ~lv35 up until lv50) and upgrading skills (where you go from like 400% weapondmg to 500%) which isn't exactly a huge boost. Monsters also don't get that much more hp so they really had to add an evasion/accuracy mechanic to prevent farming highlvl monsters early for massive XP gains. They should've just disabled it on players, or prevent players from being able to get evasion at all. The most used weapon, a +15 Yuria, has 15% accuracy which is a lot. Sadly most classes have evasion on their secondary weapon. Without that the whole mechanic would be fine.

 

[Stokowski]

Fighting a higher-leveled player is annoying enough already since you need to have insane amounts of accuracy just to be able to hit him

So this game has action combat and yet still has "to hit" chance? What the fuck?

It's more of an "armor penetration" mechanic.

 

[Sykar]

Which kills part of the fun of finding new gear: seeing how the appearance of your character changes. Sure, it often led to hilariously mismatched clown looks but at least in Ye Olde MMOs you had a sense of progression in two fronts: stats and looks. In TERA and Black Desert, and to a lesser extent pretty much every modern MMO, especially if it's F2P from start, you don't get that which is a shame.

So what is the problem? Would you rather pay full price and 15 bucks a month like you did in those oh so glorious MMOs? How else are they supposed to generate money?

 

[Saark]

Just play Valkyrie, except for the starter armours every type of armour looks entirely different.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Which kills part of the fun of finding new gear: seeing how the appearance of your character changes. Sure, it often led to hilariously mismatched clown looks but at least in Ye Olde MMOs you had a sense of progression in two fronts: stats and looks. In TERA and Black Desert, and to a lesser extent pretty much every modern MMO, especially if it's F2P from start, you don't get that which is a shame.

So what is the problem? Would you rather pay full price and 15 bucks a month like you did in those oh so glorious MMOs? How else are they supposed to generate money?

Where did I say that? I just pointed out that all of these games cuts corners in this aspect.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Would you rather pay full price and 15 bucks a month like you did in those oh so glorious MMOs?

Duh,ofc.

 

[Sykar]

Which kills part of the fun of finding new gear: seeing how the appearance of your character changes. Sure, it often led to hilariously mismatched clown looks but at least in Ye Olde MMOs you had a sense of progression in two fronts: stats and looks. In TERA and Black Desert, and to a lesser extent pretty much every modern MMO, especially if it's F2P from start, you don't get that which is a shame.

So what is the problem? Would you rather pay full price and 15 bucks a month like you did in those oh so glorious MMOs? How else are they supposed to generate money?

Where did I say that? I just pointed out that all of these games cuts corners in this aspect.

How is this cutting corners? This is the least impactful thing in a game. I do not see anything wrong getting some money from people who feel the need to feel "different".

 

[Thane Solus]

Btw if anybody wants to buy an account (travelers package 29.99 Euro) ill sell mine for 20 jeweuros, since i dont plan to play this again. No idea wtf was in my mind while buying this...

 

[Xenich]

So what is the problem? Would you rather pay full price and 15 bucks a month like you did in those oh so glorious MMOs?

For some this is the better option. With a box and sub purchase, the company then has to earn its money by continuing to provide content that retains the player. With the RMT approach, you just need to put up impediments to game play and wait for people to pay their way out of them.

It is the 10 dollar candy bar in the convenience store approach. You don't need to sell a lot of candy bars, you just need an idiot to pay 10 dollars every so often.

The point is, one is just looking for idiots, the other is actually looking to sell a worthy product to retain players. /shrug

 

[Drakron]

With a box and sub purchase, the company then has to earn its money by continuing to provide content that retains the player. With the RMT approach, you just need to put up impediments to game play and wait for people to pay their way out of them.

Well I got to say, arent you cute thinking that ...

Subscription based games already have cash shops, they also have no problem with selling inventory slots and other "QoL", the notion they would would do that is at this point fantasy, cash shops at this point are a part of MMOs no matter what payment option they offer so you might as well pick up the one that doesnt cost $59 + $15 per month, its cheaper.

The notion your $10 (not in 2016) would make then "provide content that retains the player" is fucking hilarious, it NEVER DID THAT and why? because people burn content at a much faster rate they can create, this is what lead to the Raider mentality that killed MMOs, the design of dungeons to "impede" completion as much as possible so they would have time to create the next one leading to the Elitism on group content that simply turned people off playing, content that is only fun for a small segment of the player population but its also the ONLY type of content that is created.

Self serving game design.

The point is, one is just looking for idiots, the other is actually looking to sell a worthy product to retain players. /shrug

Both are looking for idiots, at leas THIS idiot knows who he is one ... you are just fooling yourself, what you said? It never happened ... maybe earlier MUD or even UO maybe but MMOs are designed to keep suckers paying $15 a month so they can shat out another Dungeon Raid every 2 months.

 

[GarfunkeL]

How is this cutting corners? This is the least impactful thing in a game. I do not see anything wrong getting some money from people who feel the need to feel "different".

I don't have anything against "unique" costumes being sold in a cash shop. My point is that one of the great things about older MMOs was that as you progressed through the game, your characters equipment changed and this on only affected a stat sheet but your appearance. Even back in Ultima Online, people were working on clothes+armor combinations that made their avatars look cool/pretty/menacing. In WoW, you can wear a whole bunch of different gear, somewhat depending on your class, and this will change your appearance, sometimes quite radically. If I remember correctly, Age of Conan was one of the last MMOs to do this properly, though I haven't tried TESO.

In TERA and seemingly in BDO, this aspect has been completely cast aside - your character wears a single costume that is based on your class and as your gear improves, you flip between 1-2 textures and 3-4 colours. Obviously they see this as a way to force players to purchase costumes from the cash shop - yet that isn't enough, because you usually can't mix'n'match stuff.

Now if you're autistic and do not give a shit about aesthetics at all, more power to you. To me, this is a sore point and one reason that I'm enjoying myself at vanilla WoW server and a 2nd Er UO server instead of TERA and/or BDO even though they are technically much "prettier".

 

[Xenich]

With a box and sub purchase, the company then has to earn its money by continuing to provide content that retains the player. With the RMT approach, you just need to put up impediments to game play and wait for people to pay their way out of them.

Well I got to say, arent you cute thinking that ...

Subscription based games already have cash shops, they also have no problem with selling inventory slots and other "QoL", the notion they would would do that is at this point fantasy, cash shops at this point are a part of MMOs no matter what payment option they offer so you might as well pick up the one that doesnt cost $59 + $15 per month, its cheaper.

The notion your $10 (not in 2016) would make then "provide content that retains the player" is fucking hilarious, it NEVER DID THAT and why? because people burn content at a much faster rate they can create, this is what lead to the Raider mentality that killed MMOs, the design of dungeons to "impede" completion as much as possible so they would have time to create the next one leading to the Elitism on group content that simply turned people off playing, content that is only fun for a small segment of the player population but its also the ONLY type of content that is created.

Self serving game design.

The point is, one is just looking for idiots, the other is actually looking to sell a worthy product to retain players. /shrug

Both are looking for idiots, at leas THIS idiot knows who he is one ... you are just fooling yourself, what you said? It never happened ... maybe earlier MUD or even UO maybe but MMOs are designed to keep suckers paying $15 a month so they can shat out another Dungeon Raid every 2 months.

With a sub and an expansion, they have to keep you wanting to sub. You know what I did when EQ stopped providing content for me? I stopped subbing. This is why EQ lost a lot of subs.

I payed a static amount, quit when I was done. There was no advantage to try and gimmick me. Their only goal was to insure there was more content for me to play with each expansion, with each new content update. It had to appeal to me in order for me to want to buy this new content to progress through (a lot of people quit in PoP and in GoD because it was designed for that raider crowd, so people stopped playing).

FTP only cares that you spend money, as much as possible. So, all content is designed to facilitate this. Be it quest, to travel, to gear, to potions, to numerous gimmicks, the goal is to get you to spend more money in the store, to buy more, and content is designed to push you to do this.

If you think those are the same, then you are likely a FTPer and why they make so much money of said idiots. /shrug

 

[Sykar]

With a box and sub purchase, the company then has to earn its money by continuing to provide content that retains the player. With the RMT approach, you just need to put up impediments to game play and wait for people to pay their way out of them.

Well I got to say, arent you cute thinking that ...

Subscription based games already have cash shops, they also have no problem with selling inventory slots and other "QoL", the notion they would would do that is at this point fantasy, cash shops at this point are a part of MMOs no matter what payment option they offer so you might as well pick up the one that doesnt cost $59 + $15 per month, its cheaper.

The notion your $10 (not in 2016) would make then "provide content that retains the player" is fucking hilarious, it NEVER DID THAT and why? because people burn content at a much faster rate they can create, this is what lead to the Raider mentality that killed MMOs, the design of dungeons to "impede" completion as much as possible so they would have time to create the next one leading to the Elitism on group content that simply turned people off playing, content that is only fun for a small segment of the player population but its also the ONLY type of content that is created.

Self serving game design.

The point is, one is just looking for idiots, the other is actually looking to sell a worthy product to retain players. /shrug

Both are looking for idiots, at leas THIS idiot knows who he is one ... you are just fooling yourself, what you said? It never happened ... maybe earlier MUD or even UO maybe but MMOs are designed to keep suckers paying $15 a month so they can shat out another Dungeon Raid every 2 months.

With a sub and an expansion, they have to keep you wanting to sub. You know what I did when EQ stopped providing content for me? I stopped subbing. This is why EQ lost a lot of subs.

I payed a static amount, quit when I was done. There was no advantage to try and gimmick me. Their only goal was to insure there was more content for me to play with each expansion, with each new content update. It had to appeal to me in order for me to want to buy this new content to progress through (a lot of people quite in PoP and in GoD because it was designed for that raider crowd, so people stopped playing).

FTP only cares that you spend money, as much as possible. So, all content is designed to facilitate this. Be it quest, to travel, to gear, to potions, to numerous gimmicks, the goal is to get you to spend more money in the store, to buy more, and content is designed to push you to do this.

If you think those are the same, then you are likely a FTP and why they make so much money of said idiots. /shrug

I do not understand your elitist attitude here. Let's make a rough comparison of me playing 2 years WoW with me playing 2 years Marvel Heroes (FTP) for 2 years now:

WoW:
I do not have the exact numbers in my head so I will use some estimates: 60 Euros for base game plus expansions and additionally 15 Euros a month times 24: 60+360 = 420 Euros. Furthermore offers a lot of the same stuff you can buy in so called "FTP" games for the same price or even more espensive.

MH:
Between 150-200 Euros for a variety of stuff like stash tabs and a few costumes over the course of 2 years.

Summa summarum:
Subscription model gives you no real advantage since you are not guarantueed to get quality content. If you quit you might even have wasted a month or two since you will probably not have the motivation to really play much but that will depend on the individual, and also how generous the developer is, with some it is a real hassle to get your money back. So called FTP do not have that problem, you get what you buy. If they do not provide any interesting new content you stop playing or take a break without losing anything or having to fear a conflict with the company to get your money back in case you had a longer running subscription.
You are only an idiot if you cannot control yourself. Anyone with half a brain even if one just buys cosmetic stuff can play a lot cheaper than with a subscription model.
Also, there is no such thing as "FTP". Everything costs money so yeah the "FTP" aspect naturally comes with restrictions only an idiot would not, even the oh so praised PoE sells stash tabs and most of their skins and alternative spell effects are actually very expensive in comparison with other games of similar nature. MH sells you a full costume for about 5 euros up to 15 for extreme changes like converting the appearance to a completely different hero including new voice set and icons for abilities. You pay about 10 euros for a single pair of pants or armor in PoE or a single spell effect.

 

[Xenich]

I do not understand your elitist attitude here.

Most idiots don't. /shrug

Seriously, if I have to go into details to explain this to you (the logic is pretty obvious), then you are already a lost cause and the main marketing focus of today's MMO designers.

I have already wasted enough of your time here. I will move on out and you folks can continue the same circular love/hate relationship you have with your FTP/PTW mmos. I would say good luck, but to be honest I think you idiots are the cause of decline in all gaming, so instead I will say "go fuck yourself idiot!" and bid you a fare fuck off! /tips hat

 

[Saark]

How is this cutting corners? This is the least impactful thing in a game. I do not see anything wrong getting some money from people who feel the need to feel "different".

I don't have anything against "unique" costumes being sold in a cash shop. My point is that one of the great things about older MMOs was that as you progressed through the game, your characters equipment changed and this on only affected a stat sheet but your appearance. Even back in Ultima Online, people were working on clothes+armor combinations that made their avatars look cool/pretty/menacing. In WoW, you can wear a whole bunch of different gear, somewhat depending on your class, and this will change your appearance, sometimes quite radically. If I remember correctly, Age of Conan was one of the last MMOs to do this properly, though I haven't tried TESO.

In TERA and seemingly in BDO, this aspect has been completely cast aside - your character wears a single costume that is based on your class and as your gear improves, you flip between 1-2 textures and 3-4 colours. Obviously they see this as a way to force players to purchase costumes from the cash shop - yet that isn't enough, because you usually can't mix'n'match stuff.

Now if you're autistic and do not give a shit about aesthetics at all, more power to you. To me, this is a sore point and one reason that I'm enjoying myself at vanilla WoW server and a 2nd Er UO server instead of TERA and/or BDO even though they are technically much "prettier".

While I agree with most of what you said, having a finite progression especially in WoW meant that every single raider looked exactly the same before they implemented transmogrification. Before that every raider wore the same gear, and henceforth looked the same. Comparing games that have this feature to BDO is kind of moot since they had to specifically design/code/implement it.

As far as BOD goes I cannot talk about other classes, but Valkyrie has different textures/color schemes for literally every set that isnt NPC bought/Dobart Armour. Relative to the character creator the options of customizing your character are kind of limited, but there are a bunch (8 different ones) of crafting-clothes that you can and will wear as an outfit as long as you're not killing monsters nonstop. It's not ideal but there plenty of opportunity to look a specific way if you want to.

 

[Sykar]

I do not understand your elitist attitude here.

Most idiots don't. /shrug

Seriously, if I have to go into details to explain this to you (the logic is pretty obvious), then you are already a lost cause and the main marketing focus of today's MMO designers.

I have already wasted enough of your time here. I will move on out and you folks can continue the same circular love/hate relationship you have with your FTP/PTW mmos. I would say good luck, but to be honest I think you idiots are the cause of decline in all gaming, so instead I will say "go fuck yourself idiot!" and bid you a fare fuck off! /tips hat

Good riddance then fucktard without a single argument.

 

[GarfunkeL]

While I agree with most of what you said, having a finite progression especially in WoW meant that every single raider looked exactly the same before they implemented transmogrification. Before that every raider wore the same gear, and henceforth looked the same. Comparing games that have this feature to BDO is kind of moot since they had to specifically design/code/implement it.

As far as BOD goes I cannot talk about other classes, but Valkyrie has different textures/color schemes for literally every set that isnt NPC bought/Dobart Armour. Relative to the character creator the options of customizing your character are kind of limited, but there are a bunch (8 different ones) of crafting-clothes that you can and will wear as an outfit as long as you're not killing monsters nonstop. It's not ideal but there plenty of opportunity to look a specific way if you want to.

Your point about raiders looking the same is true, though WoW did allow people to wear PvP or RP gear as well, if for nothing else then to show off and this was made possible by the wide variety of different appearances of gear pieces.

I tried the sorceress and the ranger out in BDO and both suffered from the one "costume" thing. Granted, I didn't make it very far so it's entirely possible that more variety is introduced later in the game.

 

[Drakron]

I tried the sorceress and the ranger out in BDO and both suffered from the one "costume" thing. Granted, I didn't make it very far so it's entirely possible that more variety is introduced later in the game.

What you see in the character creator is what you get, I am very honest about it.

Well there is one exception, the Calpheon Noble Costume that is ... well what the Calpheon's nobles wear and its crafting only (meaning your workers craft it and you have to get the blueprint from the Tailor Anity Store) but the way Black Desert functions with armor it cannot really change, you basically get a set that works for your build and never change for it, there is no "level progression" in gear since there are no level requirement for wearing gear, heck people are leveling Tamers just for when the Ninja class comes since they share same weapon and apparently play similar.

There is something I did wanted to say and its this.

Cosmetics are something that without a Store will not be much of a priority and exist because of the Store, they very much pay for themselves but without the Store they would not exist because they eat up time that could be spend of what our absent friend Xenich calls "content", the time you spend on creating a new outfit can be spend on creating a new mob ... you can bring WoW but that happened because of WoW had itemization tier system that called for different types of armor,

Without a store its unlikely customization options would have much of a high priority, they do with a store because they simply sell well enough to justify their creation.

And this is why I said he was cute, we had a sea of failed MMOs not because WoW eaten then all but rather because WoW was a very different beast, a refinement of MMOs that come before (evolutionary, not revolutionary) that maintained a critical mass as other withered and died even with $15 monthly, the idea that developers will use those $15 in creating new content to retain players is simply ... well that is not what happened and its not because they used WoW model that was the problem, the problem was the way they thought would retain players was going to be the "Dungeon Raid Hamster Wheel", let me pick a very easy target ... Cryptic and Champions Online ... 2009 before Atari (and before PW), subscription based and what the fuck did they did with the $15? NOTHING! Game is in a life support and been so since they moved most of the development team to work on first STO and later Neverwinter earlier on its lifetime and STO was when they were still a independent company ... you have a shell of a game because they simply moved on to their next target were they did exactly the same thing (they also have a excuse for that one), I am sure, and I am having a bit *lot* of a laugh by typing this, VERY PASSIONATE about it but that doesnt change the reality and their insistence in using "subscription retention" that is nothing but systems created so you stay on line as much as possible and log in every day and play ... thats not retention, its fucking work. And I sick of it.

They are all slimeballs no matter what BS they spew like STO were they are all so great fans of Star Trek but apparently cannot get the fucking uniform colors right, they have no qualms on every 3 months throw another $30 ship out to the point Starfleet must have more ship classes in the current year that the US Navy in its entire history and this aint a new development ... they already doing it before and I bet some are kicking thenselves for making then account wide back them.

I might have said more that I should but really, of its many faults its still not chained to the Endless Raiding ...more that I can say for other subscription based that chases after that mirage, of "the endgame" ...

 

[Sykar]

How is this cutting corners? This is the least impactful thing in a game. I do not see anything wrong getting some money from people who feel the need to feel "different".

I don't have anything against "unique" costumes being sold in a cash shop. My point is that one of the great things about older MMOs was that as you progressed through the game, your characters equipment changed and this on only affected a stat sheet but your appearance. Even back in Ultima Online, people were working on clothes+armor combinations that made their avatars look cool/pretty/menacing. In WoW, you can wear a whole bunch of different gear, somewhat depending on your class, and this will change your appearance, sometimes quite radically. If I remember correctly, Age of Conan was one of the last MMOs to do this properly, though I haven't tried TESO.

In TERA and seemingly in BDO, this aspect has been completely cast aside - your character wears a single costume that is based on your class and as your gear improves, you flip between 1-2 textures and 3-4 colours. Obviously they see this as a way to force players to purchase costumes from the cash shop - yet that isn't enough, because you usually can't mix'n'match stuff.

Now if you're autistic and do not give a shit about aesthetics at all, more power to you. To me, this is a sore point and one reason that I'm enjoying myself at vanilla WoW server and a 2nd Er UO server instead of TERA and/or BDO even though they are technically much "prettier".

But ultimately most people wore the same by endgame. Furthermore you still payed a lot more money for it and it is still cheaper in a B2P game with a cash shop if you can restrain yourself a little and not buy every shiny costume or pet. I do not consider this to be a valid criticism, more like a nitpick.
Far more important than looks was always skill progression and skill customization for me. I do not care much how my character looks most of the time.

 

[GarfunkeL]

"Now if you're autistic and do not give a shit about aesthetics at all, more power to you." You didn't need to reply if you were only confirming that.

But ultimately most people wore the same by endgame.

No they didn't. Because each class had a unique tier armours but these tier armours were not the end-all, be-all in vanilla and TBC. In fact, depending on the exact content patch and class you played, you were better off with nothing but off-set items due to the individual bonuses. And while now everybody knows all the best items, that wasn't the case back in 2005 and 2006. So no, most people did not wear the same by endgame.

Drakron, you're probably right, it's not cost-effective from a production view point and WoW probably had its great variety because, as you said, it was the evolutionary next step after UO, AC, EQ and the smaller MMOs of that time.

 

[damager]

Speaking about the looks of gear, this game has visual armor destruction when durability gets low. Kinda like destructible cars in race games. When my robe was at 20% it was stained in clotted blood and one arm was ripped off. Pretty impressive.

 

[tet666]

They are aware of this (obviously it's the NR.1 complaint about the Game everywhere is is discussed) and it's something they most likely wanted to change for our version but it's up to the devs Pearl Abyss to do something about it, the CM recently said on the Forums they have requested this from the devs and it's something he personally want's to see as well.

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/47000-more-in-game-armor-sets/#comment-700116