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BG2 run, Kensai/Mage dual or Fighter/Illusionist

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
The dual class is just a mage with more health and who progressed as a full fighter for when it really counts (BG1). The spell level thing isn't that much of a problem for the multi.
 

Grampy_Bone

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It's a bloody long time since my last BG2 so my memory is hazy about Kensai Mage. WHat's good about it?

Sure, Kensai doesnt use armor so that fit nicely with Mage. BUT you are sacrificing mage level to get some kensai level: bonus to damage and tohit, bonusAC, fighter HP (7 or 9 level worth).
And what do you plan to fight with it? Long range use magic, short range use staff. AND? short range you are still screwed because no armor. And melee ability can not compete with summon spell to create meatshield.
The role of mage is high quality artillery, not melee fighter.
This make me curious?

The point of the Fighter/Mage dual class is to utilize Tenser's Transformation for maximum benefit. You need the fighter levels for decent hp (full hit die levels 1-9) and weapon mastery. Since you're going to be unarmored to cast spells, might as well use Kensai to stack some extra benefits on there. Stack preferred longsword/axe/katana with Hammer of Thunderbolts (25 str, +14 damage per hit). Become buzzsaw of doom. AC is easy to make up for with Bracers of Armor + Rings. Mage gives you access to plenty of other buffs like Stoneskin and Mirror Image, which are personal only.

So it's for a self-buffing fighter build. Using a Kensai/Mage as a caster is a pointless waste of time. Might as well go straight wizard specialist for the spell slots.
 

Grampy_Bone

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Isn't fighter/mage possibly THE WORST choice in all D&D games, both PnP and cRPGs? Varranted to be unsuccesful as both mage and fighter.

Mage levels: slow progression of every stat relevant for fighter: THAC0 / Base hit and save throws; the lowest hit dice in game. In 2e games: inability to use armor or to use armor and to cast spells, in 3e games: armor penalties and waste of feats to reduce it.

Warrior levels: VERY SLOW progression as a mage. Player going to face powerful wizards at higher level while being stuck at low spellcasting level.

Maybe with some combo of items (don't remember the item set from BG)... but then, the same character as single class makes better use of it.

The only succesful implementation of fighter/mage I have ever seen is Dak'Kon from PST. And it's only because of SPECIAL items, so overpowered it's close to cheating.

Depends on the edition. in 2E fighter/mage dual-classed and fighter/mage multi-class were different mechanics with different advantages and disadvantages. It was effective as a fighter with additional magic utility, unless your DM was really punishing with not allowing you to rest or getting the required magic items. Bracers of AC + rings of protection + good Dexterity could give you an AC fully inline with regular armor, and spells like Tenser's Transformation made you better than straight fighters.

In 3rd edtion multi-classed fighter mages were shit, because taking fighter levels directly gimped your caster level. There were some special feats and prestige classes in later books that made the combo more worthwhile, but 3E definitely favored specialization over multiclass builds, especially with casters.

4E made every class effectively some type of caster, so it doesn't really apply. I haven't played 5E so I can't say.
 

hell bovine

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Isn't fighter/mage possibly THE WORST choice in all D&D games, both PnP and cRPGs? Varranted to be unsuccesful as both mage and fighter.
In BG2 it is overpowered as either dual- or multiclass. Mage protection spells are superior to armor, especially once you get access to protection from magical weapons (every tough baddie wields one). On the other hand you don't actually lose much combat prowess compared to a pure fighter. You don't even need tenser's. The end result is a capable fighter that, once fully buffed, is practically immortal in melee.
 

Urbanolo

Augur
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
320
I always go for Figher/Thief/Mage, especially for solo runs. Thief multiclass is kind of not really that useful, but those backstabs multipliers are oddly satysfying and the traps are broken, killing Drizzt easy level 1. They also have the best HLA in the game, if you go with them to ToB (or just solo BG2).
 

Terpsichore

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Didn't it nail down to weapon choices lategame? I recall stuff like katanas sucking really hard in ToB because there weren't any with a decent +.
 

Haplo

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Sep 14, 2016
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Isn't fighter/mage possibly THE WORST choice in all D&D games, both PnP and cRPGs? Varranted to be unsuccesful as both mage and fighter.

Mage levels: slow progression of every stat relevant for fighter: THAC0 / Base hit and save throws; the lowest hit dice in game. In 2e games: inability to use armor or to use armor and to cast spells, in 3e games: armor penalties and waste of feats to reduce it.

Warrior levels: VERY SLOW progression as a mage. Player going to face powerful wizards at higher level while being stuck at low spellcasting level.

Maybe with some combo of items (don't remember the item set from BG)... but then, the same character as single class makes better use of it.

The only succesful implementation of fighter/mage I have ever seen is Dak'Kon from PST. And it's only because of SPECIAL items, so overpowered it's close to cheating.

3e Eldiritch Knight says hi! Along with at least half a dozen less popular prestige classes. If your DM allows for Mithrall Chain cheeze, you don't suffer any armor failure penalties. If he does not, you either focus more on Dex or go for Still Spell metamagic and cast in full plate with a tower shield. Mage/Fighter multiclasses are very potent and very fun in 3rd ed.
 

Terpsichore

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I do, the best and only katanas were from the original game and those are +3 top. You couldn't even touch stuff in ToB with those. Scimitars and Longswords are probably a better long-term choice, even though Celestial Fury is pretty overpowered in SoA.
 

oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
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I do, the best and only katanas were from the original game and those are +3 top. You couldn't even touch stuff in ToB with those. Scimitars and Longswords are probably a better long-term choice, even though Celestial Fury is pretty overpowered in SoA.

This is why you need to use Weimer's Item Upgrade mod for maximum Celestial Fury cheese.

Celestial Fury
Demon Heart
Wand of Lightning
20,000 Gold

-------

Celestial Fury +5
Old CF abilities.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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No. The best weapons are the vorpal two hander and the staff of the magi, then there's the level draining two hander in ToB. Other weapons like Crom Faeyr or Azure Edge might also be very, very good but those I mentioned are the best.
 

Perkel

Arcane
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Mar 28, 2014
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Just play druid and summon bears.

Only ToB enemies can do something about druid bears.
 

hell bovine

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Depends on the PC. One of the cheesiest weapons for a solo thief or bard (because you need UAI to use it) is Haerdalis' sword. It is only of a +2 enchantment (but even in Ascension there are a few tough baddies which can be hit by it), but it drains dex on each hit, no save.
 

Makabb

Arcane
Shitposter Bethestard
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Sep 19, 2014
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My preferred combo weapons are crom fayer and flail of the ages.


Running bersker in bg 1 ee now, gonna dual him in bg 2 to mage, running a solo fighter in bg 1 is very strong
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Feb 13, 2013
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The best weapons in BG2 are staff and two handed sword.
No. The best weapons are the vorpal two hander and the staff of the magi, then there's the level draining two hander in ToB. Other weapons like Crom Faeyr or Azure Edge might also be very, very good but those I mentioned are the best.

:lol::lol::lol:

My preferred combo weapons are crom fayer and flail of the ages.

Flail of Ages on-hand, Belm off-hand.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
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Oct 26, 2014
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Crait
The best melee weapons are staves; they are the only 2H weapon you can backstab with. Staves also have great progression- in BG: EE you can get Staff Spear +2 immediately after leaving Candlekeep and even buy a Quarterstaff +3; in BG2: EE you can likewise buy Staff of Rhynn +4 in the Promenade right after Chateau Irenicus, both Staff of Striking and Staff of Magi are available in Chapter 2, and Staff of the Ram +4 you can loot from Watcher's Keep whenever you feel up to it.

The best non-backstab melee weapons are the 2-handed swords, beginning with mighty Carsomyr, in addition to Silver Sword and Lilacor.
 

hell bovine

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The best non-backstab melee weapons are the 2-handed swords, beginning with mighty Carsomyr, in addition to Silver Sword and Lilacor.
Except FoA deals 8-13 damage (if counting the elemental damage). By comparison, both Lilarcor and the silver sword deal 4-13, only Carsomyr is slightly better with 6-17. However, with dual-wielding and improved haste, you'll hit the apr ceiling with FoA sooner than your fighters get GWW (and improved haste lasts much longer anyway).

The dispel and slow effects are both very useful, but the silver sword's vorpal effect offers a save, which makes the ravager or the axe of the unyielding better in that regard.
 

ga♥

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
7,593
I just finished a solo bg2 (+Ascension) on insane, inspired by this topic, MicoSelva's LP and bit of boredom.

So, is there any non-cheesy way to win the final battle for a solo char? I had to spam the whole area of skull traps and delayed fireballs (while still dying a innumerable times anyway) and it felt...unsatisfating
 

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