KickStarter Wellspring: Altar of Roots - tactical RPG inspired by JRPGs (formerly Bevontule)

[MTG_Derek]

Originally when 'free movement' was said, I thought he was referring to the radial-based movement and battlefield (as opposed to a grid). But now I'm confused. Is it the fact that it isn't confined to a grid that is bothersome or is it the fact that you can run around while selecting an action? Not trying to stunt or interrupt the conversation, but this is the first real time that anyone has been opposed to this particular movement scheme and I'm just trying to understand why

 

[Mustawd]

Is it the fact that it isn't confined to a grid that is bothersome or is it the fact that you can run around while selecting an action?

Hmm..aren't these the same thing?


Anyway, for me it comes down to two main things: (1) aesthetics and (2) functionality.

First, I just like grid based movement in turn based RPGs a lot better. For one, it very reminiscent of wargames where movements are done in hexes or squares.

Spoiler

And even when wargames didn't necessarily have a discrete grid, their square bases kind of formed an imaginary grid in and of itself.

Spoiler

Which to me means that games that have some of the same looks and feel just make combat feel more satisfying on a visual level:

Spoiler

Besides, having things confined to a grid makes movement seem natural. The video clip you showed earlier has some awkward movements as the PC is being position. For example, the model goes from being in a fighting stance to lowering the stance and into a walk/run animation in a very unnatural way. Whereas a turn based game would script the movement from location to location, so it looks more natural.

For example, look at how the movement is compare din Blackguards...



And compare that to movement from a standstill in your game...




This is what I mean when I say it looks goofy.


The other part of liking a grid is that it's just more functional. I can move my units discretely without having to worry about positioning them how I want (not withstanding accidentally hitting the wrong square). There is no fidgeting around trying to make sure my character is facing the correct way. And that leaves me free to think about what I should be thinking about: The tactics of the battle.



Anyway, it's obvious that your movement system is baked in, so I'm not suggesting that you need to change it for me to enjoy it. It's just my preference.

 

[Alienman]

Turn based is always good. Looks interesting.

 

[Maggot]

The free movement system looks pretty cool in that vid but that might just be the music.

 

[ArchAngel]

Wake me up when this game is at least early access level yawn

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Wake me up when this game is at least early access level yawn

This is actually at release level by modern standards, get with the times, nerd

 

[Tytus]

Wake me up when this game is at least early access level yawn

This is actually at release level by modern standards, get with the times, nerd

what they say - what it actually means:
early access - first playable build
release - alpha
release + day 1 patch - beta
release + three months of patching - gold
enhanced edition - actual release

 

[MTG_Derek]

Hmm..aren't these the same thing?

Maybe that's what you meant, but I see them differently. Free movement = being able to choose a skill, see its effect radius (circle, line, cone, etc.) and then move around with that skill selected, therefore dynamically adding and removing potential targets as they come into range. This eliminates the need to explicitly select 'Move' as a battlefield option since it can technically be done at any time as long as you haven't already 'queued' up a skill. Sure, it's a little different, but it all but eliminates the chance that you'll inadvertently do something incorrect during combat (in terms of selection, not tactics). Maybe that's the part that doesn't jive well, but it's somewhat of a necessity in this game, imo, having what I'll call 'continuous' movement as opposed to discrete (even though technically, it's all discrete.) It's easy to count tiles in a game like FFT, but a system like this could still exist in a grid-based game, but it's less functional. Obviously it's a lot easier to count up discrete blocks than try to 'measure' a distance. That's what this system is for. Personally, (I'm just a tad bit biased...) I love me some tile-based tactics game and I see the appeal of it. But it's been done to death. We wanted to try something different and we've found that there are some very interesting strategic opportunities when you're not working with a grid. Which brings me to...

so I'm not suggesting that you need to change it for me to enjoy it. It's just my preference.

It's too late, buddy. Changes are being made as we speak!

 

[crpgnut]

Glad I posted this over here. RPGWatch just doesn't have anyone who wants to talk deeper than My Little Pony anymore. I'm getting used to fighting with the 3 dudes now. Taunting is vital to get off in the first round, except in the easiest combats. Only the tank can take the kind of damage most monsters put out. Once he has their attention, then I can have DPS start killing things and keep the cleric just within range of healing but not close enough to take hits. I still haven't found the stores, but I've been getting better at the combat. I've almost completed the caves. There is one monster type down there that keeps wiping me though. It has this purple attack that does like 30+ damage to my whole group and there are two of them in a couple battles. I haven't won against that matchup yet. I've killed one, but the other kills my whole party before I get it down.

 

[MTG_Derek]

Glad I posted this over here.

I'm glad you're sticking with it. At first I wasn't sure if you actually enjoyed it or not, haha. The combat is quite challenging, I'll admit, and some enemies could definitely stand to be nerfed, but much of it can be dealt with by using the right tactics. With the stalkers, the best thing you can do is simply not group up and try to get out of the way when you see them charging the skill. I don't know if you noticed this, but there is a 2 or 3 turn (don't remember which) delay from the time the skill is charged before it goes off. I'm sure you've already realized this, but you can usually avoid it. If you do have to get hit by it, try to soak it up with Moroch (the healer/monk) since he has the highest magical resistance, whereas Apolith (the tank) actually has the lowest magical resistance. An enemy's tendency to use a particular skill depends on a lot of different factors, but for those specifically, they will tend to not use 'Permeate' unless they can hit multiple targets with it. I don't know how much you've delved into the combo system, but you can usually hurt one pretty badly with a Gut Punch + Backstab/Slash combo. Also don't neglect Firebomb as it can make a huge difference as well. If things get super bad, you can always kite them around while they take burn damage over a period of time. Finally, don't forget about your items too, in and out of battle, as they are instant heals and while overall weaker than Moroch's 'Chakra' or 'Aura' skills, don't need to be charged. Sorry, kinda just rambling at this point, haha.

I still haven't found the stores

I don't know what you have or haven't found so I'll start at the beginning: if you go back roughly to where you started the demo, you can exit the 'Atonian Steppe' area. If you have the minimap pulled up (you can toggle it with 'M' or using 'X' on an XBOX360 controller), you should be able to see a black and white arrow leading out of the starting scene. Once there, you'll be in 'Cephaline', which is the only village in the game. Once there, you can head along the path and up a hill to the right. Again, you can toggle the minimap using the 'M' button and you can essentially make it full-screen on the second or third press of 'M', I don't remember. From there, you should be able to see the stores in the center of town, which are marked with gray speech bubbles. Hope this helps!

 

[vonAchdorf]

Since Mordheim, I kinda like the free movement in a TB game, so it's intersting. I also like JRPGs, but here it's JRPG mannerisms (transition to the battle map) in a WRPG looking game, got to see how it feels in the end.

 

[Viata]

but here it's JRPG mannerisms (transition to the battle map) in a WRPG looking game

I may be wrong here by what you mean, but it's not the same as those Gold Box games?

 

[Mortmal]

Just tried the demo, the main character sure sounds like goofy with his rubber legs and duck feets, you will have to work a lot on it and allow more choices. Except that graphically its ok .It sound like a JRPG made in the west , overland map and music like final fantasy , run into monsters triggering turn based combat, fetch X item quest...Not really my kind of game , i cant really stomach fed ex quests anymore , thats boring . Hope it gets more original than that , you dont intend us to kill some ancient evil that has awaken or free some kingdom from the orcs right ?
Combat is ok , seems theres quite a few strategic options to select.

 

[MTG_Derek]

Hey, appreciate the feedback and thanks for trying it out, even if it isn't exactly your cup of tea.

the main character sure sounds like goofy with his rubber legs and duck feets

Yeah, there are definitely some issues with the main character model and some of the other assets, as alluded to in a previous post. I maybe didn't mention this, but we are a small team of two devs and neither of us are artists, only programmers. We obviously are not going to release a game with the character looking/moving like that

Hope it gets more original than that

I promise you that it will. We were highly torn on whether or not to even include those quests in the demo precisely for that perception, but it adds a slight amount of variety and allowed us to test the very basics of our quest/dialogue/interaction systems.

you dont intend us to kill some ancient evil that has awaken or free some kingdom from the orcs right ?

Quite some extrapolation there, huh? You actually have to venture to the dark tower of death and kill the night servant's bad-boy guard legion of orcs. Close though. All joking aside, there is a large and expansive plot behind this game, which is not going to be heavily expounded upon in what, again, is a demo. There are no orcs or fantasy races at all in the game.

Combat is ok , seems theres quite a few strategic options to select

It's a small taste of what we have planned in terms of allies, enemies and skills. Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to play it and offer feedback!

 

[crpgnut]

Yeah, I definitely missed the stores when I was in town. I'll need to run back there and look around more this weekend. I've probably sunk 15 hours in the demo, just messing around with stuff to see what I can break

 

[MTG_Derek]

Yeah, I definitely missed the stores when I was in town. I'll need to run back there and look around more this weekend. I've probably sunk 15 hours in the demo, just messing around with stuff to see what I can break

Awesome! I am impressed. And by all means, break any and everything that you can. There are a couple of bugs that we are already aware of, but maybe you can find a few more? (Not counting the enemies ) I'd also be interested to know whether you're able to equip stuff properly or if there's something wonky going on there as well?

 

[crpgnut]

My guess is that since the DPS guy can't wear the heavy armor, that's why I wasn't seeing it. You might change that if that's the case. The armor should show up for everyone, just not be equip-able. I'll look at it again and see if that's right though.

 

[Roqua]

The game looks great. Please remember to cater to pc players with a real GUI, controls, and no console inventory.

 

[crpgnut]

The UI is definitely a work in progress. The inventory system is really not in place, skills and stats and such aren't really interactable yet, etc. The game feels pre-alpha and there really is no motivation at all to play it, except to help out. I didn't get much time with it this weekend, but I did finally beat one group of creatures in the caves that have a ranged attack. I gathered all of the iron and hmmm something else that there is a ton of, but that was about it.

I'll keep the game in mind and would like to play it again once it hits beta. There are enough pieces here that it could become a decent game eventually.

 

[MTG_Derek]

Hey crpgnut, let me just say that I am glad that you spent time playing the game for us! It is very much appreciated and it's nice to hear your thoughts and impressions.

The inventory system is really not in place, skills and stats and such aren't really interactable yet, etc.

I am not entirely sure what you mean by this. The inventory system is very much in place, and I'm curious as to exactly what issues you had with it. Sure, not every single item is implemented, but there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 different items available in the game, nearly half of these being equippable items that directly modify or boost attributes, which are also very much in place and functional. Sure, there are a few issues to fix up, like making armor classes more obvious (light, medium, heavy), but I am not sure exactly what you mean by stats and inventory. Skills progression, admittedly, has not been implemented yet and we could probably make that more obvious

The game feels pre-alpha

Haha, yeah, the title screen quite literally says "Pre-Alpha Demo" as does the installer, so yeah, it's definitely very early in its development. However, I'd have to say that a pre-alpha keeping your attention for 15+ hours isn't too shabby, is it?

I'll keep the game in mind and would like to play it again once it hits beta. There are enough pieces here that it could become a decent game eventually.

I appreciate that very much and am very thankful that you took the time out of our schedule to play it. Again, it is a very early demo (do games even release demos these days or do they just go straight to kickstarter with a few pictures and a trailer?) and there is still a lot of work to be done! We'll get it there though.

 

[crpgnut]

Somebody else play this and chime in on the inventory system. I've done my share

 

[MTG_Derek]

Somebody else play this and chime in on the inventory system. I've done my share

I agree!

If anyone's interested, we'll soon be adding a rather large update to this current demo, which will include the following:

• Inn functionality
• A completely new main character model which looks and feels infinitely better than the original version
• Vast graphical improvements to the outside areas
• Atonian Canyon and Cephaline have been made more accessible and there are more shortcuts between various locations
• Significantly increased movement speed and improved collision detection/interactions with obstacles and interactables
• Increased loot drops and items to be found in all areas of the game, including some that were not available in 1.0
• Interactable items now faintly highlight when you are in their vicinity so that they can more easily be recognized and located
• Enemy behavior improvements and re-balancing

If you haven't tried it and still want to, I would highly recommend waiting until this new version is released within the next week or so.

 

[crpgnut]

Sounds good, Derek. I'll try to look at it again then too and update my impressions. I'm in love with Path of Exile at the moment, but it's just a fling

 

[Siveon]

Can't wait to try it. The game does have potential.

 

[adrix89]

I wish instead of a circle enemies would have a kind of masking effect that deformed the circle thus affecting your possible move.