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KickStarter Wellspring: Altar of Roots - tactical RPG inspired by JRPGs (formerly Bevontule)

agris

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I haven't played it, but that UI font looks straight out of Mass Effect. It's kinda jarring with the fantasy background, maybe go with something more appropriate / with serifs?
 

Merlkir

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(I've not played the demo and am judging just from the screenshots and videos)

There isn't anything about the game that makes me want to dive in, as opposed to the hundreds of games I have already bought on Steam.
So far it's not different, or captivating in any way - green grasslands with blue rivers like every other fantasy RPG, with swords and dragons...
I guess unlike much of the codex, a turn based combat system isn't enough to hook me.
(and I'm not advocating for wild originality, or striking weirdness, just something - anything separating the game from its competitors.)

Are you still in the phase of developing mainly the systems and engine, or have you worked on the story and setting already?
 

thesheeep

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I haven't played it, but that UI font looks straight out of Mass Effect. It's kinda jarring with the fantasy background, maybe go with something more appropriate / with serifs?
Agreed that the font looks 100% scifi, but I'd be very careful with serifs in games.
Can easily get unreadable.
 

MTG_Derek

Multithreaded Games
Developer
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Jul 9, 2016
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105
(I've not played the demo and am judging just from the screenshots and videos)

There isn't anything about the game that makes me want to dive in, as opposed to the hundreds of games I have already bought on Steam.
So far it's not different, or captivating in any way - green grasslands with blue rivers like every other fantasy RPG, with swords and dragons...
I guess unlike much of the codex, a turn based combat system isn't enough to hook me.
(and I'm not advocating for wild originality, or striking weirdness, just something - anything separating the game from its competitors.)

Are you still in the phase of developing mainly the systems and engine, or have you worked on the story and setting already?

I appreciate your criticism and admittedly, a lot of this simply comes down to personal opinion. By and large, the two most important aspects of this game are the plot and the battle system/combat mechanics, both of which are completed, pending slight alterations based on feedback. This game has been in active development for nearly a year and a half and during this time, we have focused on the core gameplay mechanics and spent less time actually focusing on the lore and setting since they are largely fleshed out and are, by contrast, more difficult to properly express as a small team. I will say that just because a game is turn-based does not immediately make it generic or like every other turn-based game as there is an infinite number of expressions of that idea: sure, there are a lot of similar games that follow a tried and true formula, but ours is not one of them: every single battle requires thought and attention, which is one of the foremost goals we set out to achieve. It's easier to show rather than tell what it is about our battle system that makes it unique, hence the release of multiple playable demos. That being said, I understand that not everyone wants to put the time into a demo or a large amount of further research, particularly if turn-based combat isn't your cup of tea to begin with.


I haven't played it, but that UI font looks straight out of Mass Effect. It's kinda jarring with the fantasy background, maybe go with something more appropriate / with serifs?

Agreed that the font looks 100% scifi, but I'd be very careful with serifs in games.
Can easily get unreadable.

This is a common criticism and one that we will probably address at some point. All I can say is that the sci-fi font does fit with the game as a whole, if not necessarily the particular settings in which you see it (think of any Star Ocean game.)
 

agris

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I haven't played it, but that UI font looks straight out of Mass Effect. It's kinda jarring with the fantasy background, maybe go with something more appropriate / with serifs?

Agreed that the font looks 100% scifi, but I'd be very careful with serifs in games.
Can easily get unreadable.

This is a common criticism and one that we will probably address at some point. All I can say is that the sci-fi font does fit with the game as a whole, if not necessarily the particular settings in which you see it (think of any Star Ocean game.)

Perhaps you could use a more stylistically neutral font that doesn't scream one genre or another?
 

Merlkir

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I appreciate your criticism and admittedly, a lot of this simply comes down to personal opinion. By and large, the two most important aspects of this game are the plot and the battle system/combat mechanics, both of which are completed, pending slight alterations based on feedback. This game has been in active development for nearly a year and a half and during this time, we have focused on the core gameplay mechanics and spent less time actually focusing on the lore and setting since they are largely fleshed out and are, by contrast, more difficult to properly express as a small team. I will say that just because a game is turn-based does not immediately make it generic or like every other turn-based game as there is an infinite number of expressions of that idea: sure, there are a lot of similar games that follow a tried and true formula, but ours is not one of them: every single battle requires thought and attention, which is one of the foremost goals we set out to achieve. It's easier to show rather than tell what it is about our battle system that makes it unique, hence the release of multiple playable demos. That being said, I understand that not everyone wants to put the time into a demo or a large amount of further research, particularly if turn-based combat isn't your cup of tea to begin with.

I must've phrased that poorly. I'm indifferent to the combat system, turn based or real time makes little difference to me. (either can be good or bad)
What doesn't grab me is the setting and environments, that is what I find generic. (and again, it could be perfectly lovely and well written, but there's nothing that would separate it from many other games in my mind - "Oh right, Bevontule, that's the game about X with Y.")

It might be just the right way into the heart of the typical Codexer, but it seems to me like you're marketing the game mainly by showing off the combat system. That's fine, but I just don't care, I wanna know about the rest of it and see if that hooks me in.
 

MTG_Derek

Multithreaded Games
Developer
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Spent some time revising the fonts/UI. Does something like this seem more genre-agnostic and/or appropriate?


3NwXP16.jpg
 

MTG_Derek

Multithreaded Games
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105
Just wanted to drop by and announce that Bevontule is now on Steam Greenlight! We'd love if you took some time to check out our page! I swear there were at least one or MAYBE two of you that liked the idea of the game?!

l4YHuF3h.png


Check it out here!
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
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Germany
Just wanted to drop by and announce that Bevontule is now on Steam Greenlight! We'd love if you took some time to check out our page! I swear there were at least one or MAYBE two of you that liked the idea of the game?!

l4YHuF3h.png


Check it out here!
what was the idea?
 

MTG_Derek

Multithreaded Games
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what was the idea?

Sorry, I just meant in the general sense. Maybe premise would have been a better word? In any case, (I won't gush for too long) the 'idea' is that Bevontule is a fusion of Japanese, Western, open-world sensibilities with a huge emphasis on the battle system, which is extremely tactical, very unique and actually challenging. Furthermore, where most tactical RPGs have battles occur in a linear, almost episodic-format, our game is very free-roaming (to an extent) with enemies that can be engaged appearing in the field. We also have a very fleshed-out plot as well as numerous other improvements and alterations to different systems (crafting, questing, bestiary, formations etc.)

Also, more shameless plugging (I swear I'll stop after this... maybe)

 

Reapa

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Germany
what was the idea?

Sorry, I just meant in the general sense. Maybe premise would have been a better word? In any case, (I won't gush for too long) the 'idea' is that Bevontule is a fusion of Japanese, Western, open-world sensibilities with a huge emphasis on the battle system, which is extremely tactical, very unique and actually challenging. Furthermore, where most tactical RPGs have battles occur in a linear, almost episodic-format, our game is very free-roaming (to an extent) with enemies that can be engaged appearing in the field. We also have a very fleshed-out plot as well as numerous other improvements and alterations to different systems (crafting, questing, bestiary, formations etc.)

Also, more shameless plugging (I swear I'll stop after this... maybe)


yeah, i'm not a nice person and my question was really calling your bluff. i see no idea besides turn based combat without a grid. that alone does not constitute a game and fails to arouse my interest.
 

Jack Dandy

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
I like the idea of the game, and voted :)

Good luck with it! Usually don't see this kind of polish from smaller studios!
 

Hyperion

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Jul 2, 2016
Messages
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Refreshing seeing turn-based games that look like they were at least made within the last generation of systems. Combat from what I've seen is almost identical to Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits, though. Not entirely a bad thing.

Any plans to let us use more than 3 characters at a time? Such a waste of a potentially good combat system with such a limiting party size...
 

Abu Antar

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Refreshing seeing turn-based games that look like they were at least made within the last generation of systems. Combat from what I've seen is almost identical to Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits, though. Not entirely a bad thing.

Any plans to let us use more than 3 characters at a time? Such a waste of a potentially good combat system with such a limiting party size...
I was thinking the same about everything said in this post.
 

MTG_Derek

Multithreaded Games
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Combat from what I've seen is almost identical to Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits, though. Not entirely a bad thing.

Shit! Nah, I've actually never played this game (heard of the series though), but after a quick look on Youtube, you're right, it is somewhat similar. There are still some glaring differences (visible turn order management, chain system, skill turn delays, environmental obstacles etc.) but I can agree that we both seemed to have the same idea. It's strange, I always thought that Arc the Lad wasn't exactly an obscure series, (maybe it's just this title?) so I'm surprised we haven't heard the comparison before. Either way, thanks for bringing it up, good to know.

Any plans to let us use more than 3 characters at a time?

This is actually a pretty tough decision for a few different reasons. While I whole-heartedly agree that 4 characters is way better than 3, I'm afraid that it will end up causing battles to take too long. Since combat is far more frequent in this game than it is in more traditional tactical RPGs, the added character management will add up quick. We'll have to also increase the number of average enemy combatants as well in order to offset adding an additional player character and overall, deal with a lot of balancing issues, which is fine, since we still have a lot to do on that front anyhow. Then again, maybe players won't care too much about this as long as they can control four players maximum.

Thanks for your feedback! It's definitely something we've thought of and definitely want to add providing we can strike the right balance.
 
Last edited:

Sarastro

Novice
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Oct 15, 2016
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10
You seem to be proud about the combat system, can you tell us whats special about it?

Will we be able to create our party or do we have to play with the pre made characters from the screenshots?
 

MTG_Derek

Multithreaded Games
Developer
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Jul 9, 2016
Messages
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You seem to be proud about the combat system, can you tell us whats special about it?

There are a couple of things that I think separate Bevontule from a lot of typical tactical-based combat games. Firstly, there is no grid. I believe that a lot of people mistakenly think this is something of a 'gimmick' that doesn't really offer anything except the right to say gridless. However, as someone who has played the game exhaustively and judging from the feedback from many others, it really does add quite a fresh spin. For starters, movement and acting aren't really decoupled like they are in most TRPGs. This means that you can actively be switching and analyzing different skills and abilities while moving around. This is more of a functional improvement, but it does speed up combat and tends to make it feel more dynamic and less error-prone. Take a classic like FFT--you'd have to basically count tiles. Sure, it isn't hard to do that, but it would be nice to just 'see' the range of any skill from any position without having to move there first--Bevontule solves this issue. This also tends to minimize mistakes made by the player. This also allows 360 degrees of targeting and/or motion, which opens up more interesting 'types' of attacks that deviate from the simple, 'hey, you're in this radius, I can hit you.' In this way, the targeting, in particular, almost seems like a turn-based MOBA-type game. We also have certain boss battles implemented (and many more planned) that are almost MMORPG 'raid-like' in that they require very careful positioning to deal with certain 'combat phases' and mechanics or require the tank to soak up a devastating attack. In many RPGs, roles don't really mean much, but in Bevontule, they are very important, but can also be 'spread out' to a large degree for different 'specs.'

The second part of the battle system is the emphasis on 'combat chains.' This is a fairly simple concept that boils down to, 'in the turn queue, any time there are consecutive skills executed against the same target, that target takes increased damage.' For that reason, it pays to position and try to queue up skills to be used on the same target, but not only that, but to try to save the most devastating skills for last. Since different skills have drastically different 'charge times', there can be an enormous amount of strategy involved in most optimally selecting the various actions for each character on any given turn. Enemies can also take advantage of this system and very often will! We also have a very robust, generalized and tuneable AI system that is smart enough to avoid your attacks, heal enemies, execute allies, move into ranges of buffs, and many, many more things. We want this game to be very challenging, but also to be 'winnable' with the correct usage of these combat chains. We also would like to have a difficulty system (enemies can be easily adjusted), however, so that more casual players can ignore this aspect more easily.

I hope I've given enough of an explanation. If there are things that are unclear, there are also several videos on our Youtube channel that show the battle system in action. Finally, we did release a fairly fleshed out demo back in November that features a few hours of gameplay and generally shows off the battle system, although several aesthetic and functional improvements have been made.

Will we be able to create our party or do we have to play with the pre made characters from the screenshots?

You won't be able to create the party as there is somewhat of a 'stricter' plot progression than might be found in a CRPG/open-world RPG, but there are many, many ways in which they can be customized in and out of battle :)
 

MTG_Derek

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Trying out the demo. Wonder how it'll run on my toaster.

It usually runs better if you have something in there--bagels, in particular, can improve your FPS significantly.

Really though, let me know how it goes. We haven't entirely figured out the minimum specs, but I'd be curious what your specs are and how well it seems to run :) And, of course, we'll take any other comments or feedback you have!
 

Jack Dandy

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
I'll take what I've said in the other thread - This ain't Dragon's Dogma! This is more like DQ8, but with far cooler combat.

My specs are here:
http://imgur.com/a/nhAWf
I suppose it runs pretty well for a Unity game in pre-alpha. Runs at a constant 30 FPS for me.
How old is the version in the demo?
 

MTG_Derek

Multithreaded Games
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I'll take what I've said in the other thread - This ain't Dragon's Dogma! This is more like DQ8, but with far cooler combat.

My specs are here:
http://imgur.com/a/nhAWf
I suppose it runs pretty well for a Unity game in pre-alpha. Runs at a constant 30 FPS for me.
How old is the version in the demo?

Awesome! Glad to hear it's running well and you're finding it enjoyable! The version in the demo is about six months old. We've enhanced way too many things to count (notably the UI, skill system, saving/loading, battle system fluidity/responsiveness, collision jitter and a ton of other graphical optimizations!)

I don't know for sure when/if we'll release another demo, but we hope it'll be somewhat soon...ish. Thanks again for trying it!
 

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