Baldur's Gate Beamdog's Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions

[Orobis]

Nice strawman bruh

mmm what? Now you've lost me.

Tedium is subjective.

Agreed.

For me, using Kelderp makes the experience unsatisfying and less difficult in terms of how you approach encounters.

To each his own.

I have beat BG2 SCS with and without "Kelderp" multiple times and fully aware of how OP he is. When you have played BG2 SCS for as many times as i have you get to a point where you realise there is only so many ways to win any given encounter. Adding extra tedium and extending the duration of the fights = more resting and downtime = wasting the players time, but this is the beauty of SCS, with the proper settings you can maintain a high difficulty while keeping the tedium to a minimum. I have no idea where you are getting strawman from.

 

[Space Insect]

I'm kinda curious, since I've spent so much time completing all of these sidequests, will further acts bring even more quests/areas? I feel like I've cleaned most of it. I'll be gone for the weekend. I need a good break from this. Shit's addicting as fuck.

There isn't anything as filled with content as Act 2, but there is still a lot of content to go through.

 

[hell bovine]

Nice strawman bruh

mmm what? Now you've lost me.

Tedium is subjective.

Agreed.

For me, using Kelderp makes the experience unsatisfying and less difficult in terms of how you approach encounters.

To each his own.

I have beat BG2 SCS with and without "Kelderp" multiple times and fully aware of how OP he is. When you have played BG2 SCS for as many times as i have you get to a point where you realise there is only so many ways to win any given encounter. Adding extra tedium and extending the duration of the fights = more resting and downtime = wasting the players time, but this is the beauty of SCS, with the proper settings you can maintain a high difficulty while keeping the tedium to a minimum. I have no idea where you are getting strawman from.

You are not the only one playing SCS on highest difficulty settings, and frankly not having Keldorn (whom I tend to turn into zombie food) doesn't make the game more tedious for everyone, that's the point. Just like you can beat SCS dragons, even with the HP increase, before chapter 6.

 

[Orobis]

like you can beat SCS dragons, even with the HP increase, before chapter 6.

Never said it wasn't possible just very difficult, the main reason i wait until chapter 6 is i don't like running around with carosmyr that early cause it turns the game into a joke even with the SCS option to nerf it.

I don't know what settings you play with but on my last run you're not killing the dragons before chapter 6, you just can't burn through 600hp (give or take) at that low a lvl with such little dps, hell the shadow dragon drains 2-4 levels per breadth + dispells the whole party at the same time. Also, this was on hard difficulty (monsters do +25% damage) with spell revisions.

and frankly not having Keldorn (whom I tend to turn into zombie food) doesn't make the game more tedious for everyone

I disagree, but again to each his own, everyone has their own play styles

 

[hell bovine]

It doesn't matter how much damage you can't dish out if you disable them first, which should be even easier with spell revisions, as it adds harsher save penalties to many spells (one of the reasons I don't use it). One disabler I don't recommend, however, is polymorph other, because those squirrels keep their dragon breaths. It is a bit hilarious to watch such a fiery squirrel of doom chase your party around, I'll admit.
(I've played with SCS on insane, which is another reasons NPCs like Haer'dalis are superior to Keldorn. Even more so with spell revs.)

 

[Orobis]

if you disable them first

But how do you disable them before the dragons kill your tanks? I have tried this and the tanks get gibbed very quickly, the shadow dragon hits for 30-50 damage non crit and again level drains. You need at least 2-3 casts of lower resists plus a greater malison (can't remember if Great Malison's stack) and even with 2 casters you just don't have the time to pull this off, at least from my experience, idk, maybe i was doing it wrong, this was more than a year ago btw so memory is a tad fuzzy with the finer details.

 

[Orobis]

NPCs like Haer'dalis are superior to Keldorn.

In the long run yes, but by mid game Keldorn > Haer'dalis, the blade kit is indeed awsome but it takes some time for it to truly shine. Not to mention it's more micro intensive.

 

[hell bovine]

I can't help you with tanks, because I don't use them, as I am terrible at keeping anything alive that can't cast spells. But one strategy* I've found useful is to position your party in a wide area around the dragon (not close enough to be in line of sight) and keep everyone on the move during the fight. Also, with SCS melee opponents switch targets if an NPC has damage resistance. The rat form from the sewer cloak gives you something like 99% and is good for getting the heat off your fighter. (alternatively, you can cheese terribly with it, by trying to block the lizard from moving )

*only one lizard in ToB knows a trick to deal with that, but unfortunately he also suffered from weird bugs in my game

 

[Orobis]

But one strategy I've found useful is to position your party in a wide area around the dragon (not close enough to be in line of sight) and keep everyone on the move during the fight.

This is exactly what i do, you have no choice but to do this or you will get nailed from the breath aoe level drain and dispel magic.

I can't help you with tanks, because I don't use them, as I am terrible at keeping anything alive that can't cast spells.

lol yea there is no way in hell you're killing the dragons without a proper 100+hp tank, at least with my settings, a 45hp or even a cleric with 70 or so hp fully buffed would get mauled. That initial hasted bullrush followed by breath to your face is just brutal.

The rat form from the sewer cloak gives you something like 99% and is good for getting the heat off your fighter. (alternatively, you can cheese terribly with it, by trying to block the lizard from moving )

Yea i'm aware of that cloak too but i don't like using cheezy/gamey tactics, just good old fashion melee and magic beat down.

 

[hell bovine]

You don't need a bloated hp tank to deal with SCS dragons on insane, that is my point. In fact, I consider melee to be the weakest option until ToB (where you get all the immunity & resistance granting equipment, plus fighter abilities). Because what that squishy mage can do, is put on an SI:abjuration. Even better, if that squishy mage is Aerie, she will also be able the cast negative plane protection, making her a prime candidate for lizard baiting. The idea is to run away from the dragon, never more than one character in its line of sight, in order to buy enough time for your mages to get the necessary spell sequence to disable it. A dragon cannot "haste bullrush" your party if they are scattered in all directions, and in that particular fight you get the advantage of the opening move anyway.

 

[Coma White]

In fact, I consider melee to be the weakest option until ToB (where you get all the immunity & resistance granting equipment, plus fighter abilities).

As a general rule of thumb, melee is inferior to ranged attackers with spell support in most encounters (even though the pure power of ranged weapons are toned down in Shadows of Amn from the first game). Though as hell bovine says, Throne of Bhaal gives frontliners some pretty insane shit.

 

[Orobis]

A dragon cannot "haste bullrush" your party if they are scattered in all directions, and in that particular fight you get the advantage of the opening move anyway.

What i meant by hasted bullrush is the dragon starts pre-buffed already with haste and usually 2-3 other buffs. When i start the fight someone has to initiate dialogue with the dragon, who ever that is, is going to get hit with the dispel magic + breath combo, doesn't matter how many buffs you have on that character, you're going to get hit with that combo, even if you immediately start running away after you talk to the dragon. The dispel always lands first before the breath and instantly.

The idea is to run away from the dragon, never more than one character in its line of sight, in order to buy enough time for your mages to get the necessary spell sequence to disable it.

Obviously, there is no other way to deal with a dragon that early in the game, what i'm trying to explain is that even using this strategy it's simply not possible with my settings. The dragon is pre-buffed already with 3-4 buffs, than once battle starts, contingency fires off and it slams up another 3-4 buffs, so now the dragon has 6-8 buffs, there is just no way you are burning through that many protections that early in the game with only 2 casters in the party (i don't like to run with gimick parties like 6 casters i always go 3 melee and 3 caster one of which is a cleric), even if you ran with 6 casters i just don't see how you can simply "disable the dragon", quite frankly i just don't believe it. 600hp give or take to burn through, and when the dragon hits 50% hp another contingency fires rebuffing him again.

Even better, if that squishy mage is Aerie, she will also be able the cast negative plane protection, making her a prime candidate for lizard baiting.

Negative plane protection lasts only 5 rounds and stripped by the dispel magic. Did i mention that dragons cast all spells instantly?

 

[hell bovine]

I know that SCS dragons cast their spells instantly, but unless si:abjuration doesn't stop dispel in your game, why would that be a problem for any mage? And if you don't want to bother with negative plane protection, there are two items that grant immunity to level drain that you can get before chapter 6, from what I remember. Aerie can use either.

And a caster-heavy party isn't any more of a gimmick than the walking dispel-dispenser Keldorn is.

 

[Orobis]

than the walking dispel-dispenser Keldorn is.

I never used him in the last 2 runs including the one i'm talking about, dispel magic is overrated, i never use it, i take him along primarily for his true seeing which is far more useful in an SCS run.

there are two items that grant immunity to level drain that you can get before chapter 6

I am aware of those items, when i mean taking on the dragons early i mean almost right when you step out of irenicus's dungeon, after you fill you're party first before doing any other quests, and than head right for the temple, that includes before going for lilarcor. It's not a matter of not bothering with negative plane protection, without those items that block against it, casting the spell is pointless cause it doesn't last long enough or it get's dispelled.

I'm really curious, what spells do you use to disable the dragon long enough to burn through 600 hp? And with such shit thaco and that under equipped it ain't weapons, so where is all your damage coming from?

 

[GarfunkeL]

I assume he's not talking about killing either dragon as soon as Chapter 2 starts but killing them at some point in Chapter 2/3. That's what I did in my last playthrough - killed them both as the last thing before departing for the pirate island. Certainly I was not able to kill them any earlier than that.

 

[Orobis]

I assume he's not talking about killing either dragon as soon as Chapter 2 starts but killing them at some point in Chapter 2/3.

My thoughts exactly.

The argument i'm trying to make is if it's possible to kill the dragons that early with a "super grognard" SCS setting, which i don't think it is without resorting to cheese/gamey tactics.

killed them both as the last thing before departing for the pirate island.

This is the point where i usually kill them as well, and as you obviously know, by this time all your characters are kitted out and lvl 12-14, the game becomes a cakewalk (more ore less).

 

[hell bovine]

I assume he's not talking about killing either dragon as soon as Chapter 2 starts but killing them at some point in Chapter 2/3. That's what I did in my last playthrough - killed them both as the last thing before departing for the pirate island. Certainly I was not able to kill them any earlier than that.

That's what I thought I was talking about too, but apparently now we're discussing killing SCS dragons fresh after Jonny's abode. Which might be an interesting challenge, but I don't have time or inclination to play right now.

 

[Parabalus]

The easiest way to kill the dragons early is using traps.

SCS makes them aggro when you plant a trap in their lair, but you still have time to set 2x per thief which is enough. SCS, however, makes traps stoppable by stoneskin so you need to time breach before the arrows hit, then you run around till he dies of DoTs. Tactics makes them immune outright IIRC.

They are also my favorite method for dealing with a certain demi-lich.

Spoiler

Put traps at the far end of the ramp leading to Kangaxx's tomb. Kill the lich, when he transforms, Ring of the Ram him into the traps. Some mods make him immune.

 

[Somberlain]

SCS gives dragons 480-800 hp so traps aren't exactly enough, even if you set the maximum amount.

 

[Ivan]

Asylum>Shark Town. hope the game gets back to the Urban city


never gets old:

 

[Coma White]

Asylum>Shark Town. hope the game gets back to the Urban city

A city, indeed. Though perhaps not the one you were expecting -- or hoping for.

 

[drgames]

I played a few playthrough of BG, original and enanched, but i haven't never finished it, should i play BG:EE or modded BG?

 

[Orobis]

I played a few playthrough of BG, original and enanched, but i haven't never finished it, should i play BG:EE or modded BG?

Modded BG.

 

[Krivol]

Yeah,if you are not full retard and are into modding there is no reason of using EE...

Well, if you love zooming in blurry pixel mess, then EE is great almost medicore.

 

[pippin]

Modding Baldur's Gate only requires pushing some buttons and opening some files. If you can install the base game on your own, then you can mod it.