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KickStarter BattleTech Pre-Release Thread

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Specifically, mech commander gold, not mech commander 2. Mech commander 2 was shit. MC Gold and Crescent Hawk Inception are the only good top down mech games I can think of, and only Inception is an RPG. It's been almost 30 years since anyone made a decent battletech rpg.
 

GarfunkeL

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Specifically, mech commander gold, not mech commander 2. Mech commander 2 was shit. MC Gold and Crescent Hawk Inception are the only good top down mech games I can think of, and only Inception is an RPG. It's been almost 30 years since anyone made a decent battletech rpg.
Ain't that the fucking truth.
 

Beastro

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Battletech from before they started burying it in metaplot when it was designed to be feudal mercenary with giant robots simulator. Structured kinda like Pirates!

And pay for jap mecha designs for God's sake, there have to be 50 year old Japanese nerds that will draft a good looking mech for a pack of cigarettes. You know damn well everything looked bad besides the stuff pulled from jap mecha cartoons.

No more lumpy American shit robots from guys that couldn't not fuck up symmetry and perspective ten times before breakfast! no more!

I'm the reverse. I'm sick of Japanese style humanoid mechs and have always loved the more utilitarian, faux-realistic mechs that look like tanks on legs, as is apt in a world like Battletech.
 

Beastro

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I'm the reverse. I'm sick of Japanese style humanoid mechs and have always loved the more utilitarian, faux-realistic mechs that look like tanks on legs, as is apt in a world like Battletech.

Forgot to add triggered the original conceptualization of Battletech in the 80s: A Western reaction to the Japanese mecha genre presenting a Western take on mechs and how we look on them - as tanks with legs fighting in gritty industrialized warfare, not aesthetically pleasing giant samurai or infantry dooking it out with oversized swords and battle rifles (the large melee weapons wielded by humanoid hands in Battletech annoy the hell out of me).
 

twincast

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I'm the reverse. I'm sick of Japanese style humanoid mechs and have always loved the more utilitarian, faux-realistic mechs that look like tanks on legs, as is apt in a world like Battletech.
Only thing I'm sick of (or rather, never liked to begin with) are "super robot" shows, and that more due to the associated tropes/bland writing than due to the magical mechs themselves. Not that a "real robot" show's writing can't be trite shite, and ability-wise most main characters' "real robots" nowadays veer very close to "super robots", anyway, but chances are still fairly high you get a quality experience with a Gundam (rip-off) story.
That said, yes, pseudo-realistic walking tanks provide for far more believable battlefields than gigantic (and not seldom flying) infantry quasi-exosuits, but they should still look better than the amateurish art that pervaded most tabletop publications until fairly recently.
 

Gozma

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I'm the reverse. I'm sick of Japanese style humanoid mechs and have always loved the more utilitarian, faux-realistic mechs that look like tanks on legs, as is apt in a world like Battletech.

No, you don't understand where I'm coming from. I'm not talking about cool anime designs, I'm talking about shit like being able to draw perspective properly. There were plenty of pseudo-utilitarian Japanese mech designs in "the unseen" like the Locust, Marauder, Warhammer, Goliath, probably more I'm forgetting (incidentally those first three are probably the three best looking battlemechs of all time). Of the humanoid mechs with heads and hands and rifles and shit the Japanese ones like the Wasp/Stinger or Battlemaster were also just way more competent. Seriously just look up how bad everything in late Battletech looks.

By mashing together a lot of different shows they were also able to convincingly fake the idea that there had been a lot of varied corporations and nations building mechs using different schools of design.

I grant that Urbanmechs are cool
 

Darkzone

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The best thing is that Battletech has used designs from japanese series and till now this are the best and most iconic designs. Look at the unseen mechs and compare them to the other designs. Fuck. Macross had the best designs ever. My favorite Mech designs are stil ofl the Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman and Shadow Hawk. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen
Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, Shadow Hawk and Battlemaster:
191px-3025_marauder.jpg.png
191px-3025_Rifleman.jpg.png
191px-3025_warhammer.jpg.png
191px-3025_archer.jpg.png
191px-3025_shadowhawk.jpg
191px-3025_bmaster.jpg
 
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DeepOcean

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Guys, isn't Battletech a setting where after centuries of civil war and widespread use of weapons of mass destruction, everything is fucked up and technology lost and the best mechs are rusting old machines needing some maintenance and the new ones are quickly assembled for war? I mean, I'm not an expert on Battletech but isn't overdesigned animu techs kind work against the setting? I personaly think too humanoid looking mechs are silly, sure, there is the rule of cool but Battletech setting kinda ask for something more fitting for the setting, animu mechs are a decline.

Searched a few mech chassis and I liked this guy more:
madcat.jpg

Simple, utilitatian, no bullshit, something that I see could be mass produced.

But this guy here, is pure animu influence:
p1806449163-4.jpg

Skull face, robotic hands, humanoid legs... I hate that stuff, sure, it looks cool to someone that like animu but this look like something straight from Pacific Rim and it is just wanting a kaiju to fight.
 

dibens

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Hairbrained Schemes playing on my heartstrings again; much like Shadowrun, Battletech was one of my most played games on Sega Genesis as a kid.

 

Gozma

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The first one is a Clan mech (which means it's supposed to be the kind of straightforward well maintained military vehicle an effective autocratic state would build, and all of its weapons are in easily swapped pods) called Mad Cat because it's a cross between two other mechs, the Marauder and the Catapult. It was the most popular "star" mech in the Clan era of Battletech publishing, on the cover of clan splatbooks and the Mechwarrior 2 computer game where you played as a Clan guy. Easily the best design of that era, good silhouette, showcases Clan stuff perfectly.

Second one is an Atlas which is probably the most popular American designed humanoid mech, mostly because in gameplay it's the maximum 100 ton mech size and it doesn't look as shitty as most of the other stuff that was left after taking away the unseen. That's kind of a uniquely ugly model for it, too.
 

Beastro

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No, you don't understand where I'm coming from. I'm not talking about cool anime designs, I'm talking about shit like being able to draw perspective properly. There were plenty of pseudo-utilitarian Japanese mech designs in "the unseen" like the Locust, Marauder, Warhammer, Goliath, probably more I'm forgetting (incidentally those first three are probably the three best looking battlemechs of all time). Of the humanoid mechs with heads and hands and rifles and shit the Japanese ones like the Wasp/Stinger or Battlemaster were also just way more competent. Seriously just look up how bad everything in late Battletech looks.

By mashing together a lot of different shows they were also able to convincingly fake the idea that there had been a lot of varied corporations and nations building mechs using different schools of design.

I grant that Urbanmechs are cool

TBH the Mecha genre, Japanese or Western regardless, haven't been a real focal point of mine. When it comes to Japanese only the two Patlabor movies really caught my eye for their grounded setting even if they have fairly typical anime-ish mechs with extendo arms and giant rifles and shotguns.

Also don't mix up a lot of corporations = many varied designs. One just as to look at modern tank and aircraft development. Today all modern MBTs have the same overall design with the internals like powerplant and electronics being what sets them apart. A more exaggerated example is 5th Generation Fighters that all look like slightly different F-22s.

In both cases the survival pressures of modern warfare have resulted in those designs being the most effective and survivable.

In Battletechs case we can't actually test the designs to narrow down which ones work and which ones don't, but a general rule of thumb in military technology is that the more exotic designs that pop up in an era the more that eras technology is getting stale and people are running out of simple, utilitarian designs that make the most of what it provides. One just has to look at late-WWII piston propeller planes that look cool, but actually didn't have much better performance than more conventional designs, and often had worse. The piston engines possibilities were exhausted by the war and people were trying to find major breakthroughs where there were none, then jet engines came along providing more potential to work with which led to a return to more conventional looking aircraft.

Regardless, the mecha genre is a good example of how naive pop culture is about the necessities of military vehicle design. One just has to acquaint ones self with the term "shell trap" and pretty much all mecha and tanks in fiction become death traps.

I'd rather prefer to see more cultural variations in mecha aesthetics then from corporations showing their difference cultures traits and outlook. One just has to look at the little differences in American, British, German, French and "Soviet" (Legacy Warsaw Pact, Chinese and Indian) warships today right down to the different paint schemes and colours each prefers. One just has to see a Bliue-ish-Grey hull and Orange-Brown deck to know it's a Russian ship, or that a Haze Grey one with a simple, clean look is an American derived ship.

The best thing is that Battletech has used designs from japanese series and till now this are the best and most iconic designs. Look at the unseen mechs and compare them to the other designs. Fuck. Macross had the best designs ever. My favorite Mech designs are stil ofl the Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman and Shadow Hawk. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen
Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, Shadow Hawk and Battlemaster:
191px-3025_marauder.jpg.png
191px-3025_Rifleman.jpg.png
191px-3025_warhammer.jpg.png
191px-3025_archer.jpg.png
191px-3025_shadowhawk.jpg
191px-3025_bmaster.jpg

To me only Rifleman and Warhammer stand out as sane designs there. Maurauder is a typically overly-stylized Japanese mech with a lot of curves and unnecessary features, topped off (literally) with that cannon that looks like it would snap off if the mech accelerated too quickly, let alone if it fired, and would be worthless given how inaccurate it would be. Now that I take a second look at it it reminds me of Star Trek spaceships with too many thin, long critical areas that could easily be blown off to cripple the mech. Just look at those knee and elbow joints.

The other three look too human with hands being the dominant "weapon" and I can't identify any weapons on Archer, nor does it look like an electronic warfare type mech. The latter two look more like human sized power armour, all the more so given their pair of weapons identified (the far right all the more so given it's hand wielded weapon.

Rifleman and Warhammer do look nicely simple and utilitarian being essentially solid legs to carry everything on a solid foundation, a simple, solid chassis to carry the powerplant and pilot with enough armouring and "grounded", modest weaponry and electronics for arms and on the shoulders. I do admit though with Archer that it looks too humanoid and under-armed. Give it a pair of gun arms like those to the left and it would change the whole design. It does have good legs with long feet that look like it would both move well while supporting a large amount of weight.

My favorite Clan Omnimech due to its looks is the Vulture:
MWLL_Vulture_CBT_version_by_MechLivingLegends.jpg

The reverse ankle/knee joint mechs look awesome from a combination of Rule of Cool legs and the fact that their chassis set up and weaponry are simple yet look sane. One also has to keep in mind that how common "normal" legs are in nature and that cuts to the basic requirements of legs - to be a simple solid foundation and support to keep animals up, speed is secondary. An elephants legs certain wouldn't look neat on a mech, but they'd probably be a good place to start from than a more fragile humanoid leg let alone more bird-like ones. And birds don't have reverse knee joint legs, those are their ankles - a reverse knee would be having a very delicate knee where there's the most pressure on a leg. Think: If you're ankle seizes up you could still use your knee to compensate while you can't use your ankle to compensate nearly as much for a seized knee.

It also helps that they're so odd looking that it helped designers free themselves from matching the human aesthetic with a "head" cockpit on top and human proportions. From a utilitarian, military eye you can see that it's a simple cockpit on top, power plant and electronics below and weaponry slung on each side in a modular way that would easily be taken off and replaced if damaged.

Also keep in mind that the reverse joint mechs like Vulture, and above all the Timberwolf/Madcat are the real icon mechs in most people's minds, for good or ill.
Guys, isn't Battletech a setting where after centuries of civil war and widespread use of weapons of mass destruction, everything is fucked up and technology lost and the best mechs are rusting old machines needing some maintenance and the new ones are quickly assembled for war? I mean, I'm not an expert on Battletech but isn't overdesigned animu techs kind work against the setting? I personaly think too humanoid looking mechs are silly, sure, there is the rule of cool but Battletech setting kinda ask for something more fitting for the setting, animu mechs are a decline.

Searched a few mech chassis and I liked this guy more:
madcat.jpg

Simple, utilitatian, no bullshit, something that I see could be mass produced.

But this guy here, is pure animu influence:
p1806449163-4.jpg

Skull face, robotic hands, humanoid legs... I hate that stuff, sure, it looks cool to someone that like animu but this look like something straight from Pacific Rim and it is just wanting a kaiju to fight.

The human form is a good starting base, it's just like I said above, we consciously or unconsciously add unnecessary bits to it because we want to complete the full human look. That head (with "eyes" and arms with five fingered hands hands are unnecessary. Now I could see a round "head" cockpit working, it reminds me of early warship turrets before the advantages of sloped armour became apparent, like this:
103040-016.jpg


As for hands, hands are great if you need some utility for a mech if it has to grab something, but a mech is massive and isn't going to need to be dexterous enough need all five of those fingers, it's not going to be knitting or typing, it doesn't need two, it just needs one simple claw or fingers in triangle positions to grab stuff be it to clear rubble, or possibly grab onto another mech to drag it back like people to with wounded. That latter part is heavily pseudo-realistic. Vehicle recovery is only been feasible due to a combination of wheels and treads helping the recovery vehicles large doses of power enable two multi ton vehicles to be moved by one - when it comes to 50ish ton tanks the only other thing that can recover one is another 50ish ton tank or a recovery vehicle based on the chassis of one. The only reason why we're able to haul a wounded solider back, or an ant haul a wounded comrade, is our weight to scale.
 
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Gozma

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Things from late Battletech I am comparing the good unseen mechs to, quality-wise:
382px-ArcticFox.jpg.png


382px-3055U_Commando.jpg.png


521px-Whm-9d_warhammer.png


It was at this point you would purchase a new TRO and immediately stop playing Battletech. They went from excellent copied designs to typical '90s RPG book art, which is to say, terrible for everything except explicitly unrealistic stuff. Luckily now the internet gives access to waaaaaay more skilled people that can work fast with waaaaaay more powerful tools to generate good mech art.

Even in the relatively early stuff almost everything that wasn't licensed looked like it would immediately fall over or couldn't move in the first place.

As far as realism stuff, since no giant robot is realistic it's always going to be one of those things where everyone thinks they drive the right speed; everyone that drives faster is crazy, everyone that drives slower is a pussy.
 
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Beastro

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Things from late Battletech I am comparing the good unseen mechs to, quality-wise:
ArcticFox.jpg


3055U_Commando.jpg


Whm-9d_warhammer.png


It was at this point you would purchase a new TRO and immediately stop playing Battletech

Even in the relatively early stuff almost everything that wasn't licensed looked like it would immediately fall over or couldn't move in the first place.

...

Ok, I'll give you that and see you're point.

(I also see the middle artist wasn't smart enough to leave his name off of his drawing)

Any mech designer should be told to learn simple warship, tank design rules and why they are the way they are, then try to draw sticking to those rules before moving onto designing their own mechs so the same rules of design get carried forward.

A huge problem with the Zumwalt class destroyers today is that the USN didn't hire actual naval engineers to design the thing but aircraft engineers which knew nothing of the old naval design lessons learned ages ago and added things that haven't been in warship design, like tumblehome and a wave piercing bow, since the 1880s.
 

Gozma

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I edited in some stuff in that post

That last one is the reimagined version of the Warhammer they had to use after the lawsuit. Imagine my heartbreak
 

Darkzone

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Beastro
The Archer has two LRM-20 ( Long Range Missile ) racks on his left and right turso, one med laser in each arm and also two rear facing med laser in his turso.
The Marauder is a copy of the Zentraedi Tactical Pods, a Glaug Commander Type. And yes this is a common objection that the joints are to small due to the torque caused by the weapons, and i share also this opinion. But it is not necessary true, because this is dependent on many factors. And our common notion that they use only steel on steel joints with machine oil is so stupid like it can be. Because it is never told how the joints really function. Yes myomer fibres are the muscles of the mech, so this implicates joints that are more like normal metal joints in our century, but everything else is kept in darkness. The torque could be captured by intelligent materials that can liquefy and become solid due to electricity. Or they can be magnetic joints without friction, hold in place due to strong magnetic force. And yes a Mech has a reactor in his body and therefore he has enough juice. (Yes this is SCI-FI and not the reality, because in reality the pilot would die of cancer after few test drives.)
Your comment about the capabilities of the upper cannon is nonsense. The top speed of the Marauder are 64 km/h and normal walking speed is 42 km and that would not snap the cannon off even if it would be made from steel, and yes the Mechs need time for acceleration. And the Marauder cannot accelerate even with 7m/s^2. Also gyroscope mechanically stabilised controlled cannons are on all modern tanks with automatic target recognition.
The materials used in mechs is not steel (iron = 7.87 g/cm^3) and not even titanium (4.5g/cm^3), despite in some cases called so, like Endo Steel. So we don't know the qualities of the materials used in Mechs.
(I KNOW THAT THIS IS FICTION!!!)
And always think, that what is smaller is also less likely to be hit. And that makes the Mechs sadly a nonsense, due to their upright position they are the perfect targets for any target shooting.

Gozma look and cry:
warhammer_low_poly_by_punakettu.jpg
 
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Beastro

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But it is not necessary true, because this is dependent on many factors. And our common notion that they use only steel on steel joints with machine oil is so stupid like it can be. Because it is never told how the joints really function. Yes myomer fibres are the muscles of the mech, so this implicates joints that are more like normal metal joints in our century, but everything else is kept in darkness. The torque could be captured by intelligent materials that can liquefy and become solid due to electricity and etc.

I'm not even assuming it's materials contemporary to our times. The fact is that a lot of military design is conservative and redundant. If we have material that allow for mechs to be feasible when a humanoid or elephant like (tweeked for bipedel action) is still going to be a safer bet than a reverse joint one.

(I KNOW THAT THIS IS FICTION!!!)

And always think, that what is smaller is also less likely to be hit. And that makes the Mechs sadly a nonsense, due to their upright position they are the perfect targets for any target shooting.

Hence my use of the term pseudo-realisic. I would not want to recover a mech. It just would all that practical without a massive flatbed tracked vehicle with cranes, essentially a land version of a heavyl-lift ship, but then what do you use to recover that if it breaks down? All this is is a refined Rule of Cool that scratches our itch for more practical looking shit that is fundamentally impractical.
 

Darkzone

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I'm not even assuming it's materials contemporary to our times. The fact is that a lot of military design is conservative and redundant. If we have material that allow for mechs to be feasible when a humanoid or elephant like (tweeked for bipedel action) is still going to be a safer bet than a reverse joint one.
For a robot that is not really important. Our biolgical solution is due to our biological heritage, this appiles also to the elephant. Meet the commen grasshoper with his jump legs:
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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
giant-grasshopper-24T5830-03D.jpg


Meet the BigDog:


Also take a look at the ostrich running:
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
I think I do like the Vulture better now that I remember it, because the Mad Cat arms look like super fragile bendy straws with oversized guns on the "wrists". The Vulture gun-hands at least look intuitively light enough that they wouldn't twist off the arms in a breeze. On the original Marauder because of the low slung profile at least all the small joints would be hidden behind the main fuselage or the gun-hands if you were looking down its forward arc.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
For a robot that is not really important. Our biolgical solution is due to our biological heritage, this appiles also to the elephant. Meet the commen grasshoper with his jump legs:
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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
giant-grasshopper-24T5830-03D.jpg


Meet the BigDog:


Also take a look at the ostrich running:


And our biological heritage came from such legs being the best means of being stable and carrying a decent amount of weight due to the gravity the Earth, a gravity one can assume most colonized worlds in Battletech have as well by assumption like in almost all science fiction settings. On top of that one could assume that reverse joint mechs are then specialized for light gravity worlds (and occasionally pressed into service on heavier ones as needed), but from my typical, cursory exposure to the franchise that is never brought up and they operate side by side with humanoid mechs as an everyday thing as viable alternatives.

It's a reasonable arguement argued by others that, if there is life on other worlds (in this topic that centers around gravity) and if worlds like are own are the only ones able to support such life, then it's not a leap to expect said life to closely resemble our own in rough form.

Now I know the given strength of the material used in legs in Battletech is far stronger than ours used in real life, but a reverse joint leg will always carry less than a heavier one, and when it comes to warfare the main drive is equipping the heaviest weapons as can be loaded onto a vehicle because that usually is the driver in battle. On can see that in the evolution of tanks and especially warships, where the smaller sized, once set, increasingly become larger and heavier to mount better weaponry. Look at Destroyers which once were tiny ships barely weight 1000 tons which now are as heavy cruisers once were, and going back to the 19th Century, match most battleship displacements.

The main place I could see fast, reverse joint legs being used is for lighter mechs acting as a screen and recon element for the heaviers with something like a Vulture acting as medium to medium-light mech to help give the smaller ones some ability to stand up to contact with enemies once met.

For those pics/vids:

First example are on an animal with highly specialized legs meant to propel them that aren't built for walk, much less carrying much weight. Have you ever seen a grasshopper try to walk? They can manage but it's not what their hind legs are designed for. They're also built primarily to give a grasshopper a quick means of escape, not a the best animal or leg to build a combat vehicle around.

Second is a machine built pretty much like any four legged animal, but this isn't Star Wars, the franchise theme is bipedal mecha.

Third is an animal with legs built for running, not carrying much weight and a bird at that whose every bit of their body is centered around saving weight to fly (in the ostriches ancestors case, in which the ostrich has re-purposed for speed on land). As said before, good for light or very light mechs, not something the size of the Timber Wolf.

I think I do like the Vulture better now that I remember it, because the Mad Cat arms look like super fragile bendy straws with oversized guns on the "wrists". The Vulture gun-hands at least look intuitively light enough that they wouldn't twist off the arms in a breeze. On the original Marauder because of the low slung profile at least all the small joints would be hidden behind the main fuselage or the gun-hands if you were looking down its forward arc.

I know. It's never sat right with me.

I blame that on inertia and the franchises popularity. The Timber Wolf is THE mech in the franchise in most eyes (most of all the eyes that did the franchise marketing) and God forbid someone would tamper with even if that tempering made sense and would result in a better design.

That does remind me too that plating and shielding isn't used often in Battletech designs and armour thickness is something you have to look to the numbered stats of a mech to see where it's thin or thickest at as oppose to a tank or human armour where it's visibly mostly mounted forward.
 
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Renegen

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I used to obsess about every mech in MW4, here's another favourite of the community the Loki:
191px-Thor.jpg


Actually I always liked playing with the Thanatos, using non symmetrical mechs allowed to have more powerful weaponry on as little tonnage as possible.
191px-Thanatos.jpg


I don't have too much hope for this new game however, I hope it's an RPG and we get some grand adventure but it just feels like a cheap clone of Shadowrun where instead of 5 runners you have 5 mechs (out of 12 in total!) that can use 2 actions per turn. Nothing worse than simplistic TBS.
 

Jaesun

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but it just feels like a cheap clone of Shadowrun where instead of 5 runners you have 5 mechs (out of 12 in total!) that can use 2 actions per turn. Nothing worse than simplistic TBS.

WAT? Do you have info about this we have not heard yet?
 

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