Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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TBS Battlestar Galactica: Deadlock - simultaneous turn-based space fleet strategy from Slitherine

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by LESS T_T, May 16, 2017.

  1. MercantileInterestgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Assume the ships experience momentum without friction. Series did that very well. In fact, the series did a very good job working out the implications of low-tech sci-fi. Of course, Colonial society was completely ridiculous but that largely stemmed from the shallow mindedness of the writers. Wonder whether the Politics part of this game handles the matter better.
     
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  2. Angelo85gender: ⚧ Liturgist

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    Capital ships are certainly the main focus of the gameplay, but the majority of ships have carrier capacity and there are plenty of starfighter squadrons on any given battlefield as a result. You can also spectate the starfighters from the well-known camera angle of the new show where the cam is just besides the cockpit. Looks pretty neat in-game actually.


    The tutorial spans the first three or four missions (depending on how fast you play I'd say a good hour or two if you take things real slow) and gameplay features get introduced after each mission. Tylium is used indeed as a resource for jumping. If your fleet stays stationary for a turn the cost gets reduced so there's definitely another tactical layer to be found there.
    The system map is indeed looking a little bare bones but the sparse presentation helps providing a quick overview of the strategic situation IMHO.


    Each turn can be replayed as often as you like from different perspectives and after each battle you can watch the whole thing in real-time from any perspective for that actiony cinematic feel. The game also provides nice default camera angles similar to the ones from the new show. The dogfights look pretty nice in that one, there's usually plenty fighter squadrons on the field.
    If you are a table top player the closest thing to this game is the X-Wing miniatures game. It's mainly about positioning and anticipation, I like it personally but to each their own.


    Yes the Z-axis gets used, you can tell your ships to move up or down free-form (up to a certain limit) and it matters in-game as each capital ship has armor sections not only on the sides, front and back but also on the top and bottom. So hits from underneath or up above do get tracked and have in-game consequences.


    The fighters zip all over the place just like in the show, quick turns and all but you don't directly control their crazy movements you just point to a place you want them to move or attack (or defend for that matter). The capital ships don't really get impacted by movement friction stuff. So all-in-all it does not really impact the gameplay. In regards to the politics part you got the different colonies and they send you the Tylium ressource. If cylons attack them they send you less, if you reinforce them with fleets you can fortify the position and get send more. It's a bit like in X-com with the different countries contributing to the defense fonds but it's not very deep, at least not so far but I haven't played all that much yet.
     
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  3. Executrgender: ⚧ Savant

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  4. Make America Great Again Taka-Haradin puolipeikkogender: ⚧ Arcane

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  5. Make America Great Again Taka-Haradin puolipeikkogender: ⚧ Arcane

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    It's been released.
     
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  6. da_raysgender: ⚧ Learned

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    That is looking fraking nice . Any brave codexer or Battlestar Gallactica fan have giving it a whirl ? Always interested in a TB space/sci fi game and BSG Deadlock seem like an interesting title.

    If anyone can give a good feeling of the combat ( which seem to be a solid part of the game , there seem to be a lot of other stuff , ressource management , ship construction , officers ) , how much depth is there and of course the overall fun factor.

    Steam reviews seem to compare it a lot to the mod in HW2 ( for thoses who didnt know , there is a big ass mod for HW2 based on BSG ) .
     
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  7. da_raysgender: ⚧ Learned

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    well fuck it. Seen a few video of it, look nice but like someone pointed earlier , TB is a bit weird for a BSG game . Kinda break the fluidity a bit. I was watching tho not playing , maybe its a bit different in the XO seat . that said im really itching for a good space / TBS and BSG , so currently downloading right now.

    Gonna post a fews impressions after the tutorial . i REALLY hope ressource management , ship construction , officiers and everything outside fleet combat is well done and feel ''BSG''

    here is an added bonus for BSG fans

    Show Spoiler
     
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  8. Hellraisergender: ⚧ Arcane

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    I am not very far in (current campaign mission will unlock Viper mk. II blueprints) but here's some observations so far while playing on the hardest difficulty level.

    Overall the tactical combat is the bulk of the game's complexity. Campaign map mechanics are pretty simple, this does not mean that the campaign map is pointless or brainless however. Where you station your fleets matters a lot. Basically every jump costs tylium and tylium is the proper currency of the game (req. points are also used but not as important as tylium from what I see so far). You get a free jump (no tylium cost) after a fleet stays in one place for a longer period of time. But so far I have maybe not rushed a jump once so far. The reason is simple. There are 12 colonies and 4 stars, apart from one of those planetary systems you have at least 3 colonies that can be attacked in each (they grant you Tylium per turn, unless bombarded by Cylons), plus lifeless useless rocks where cylons might rally before striking a colony. You might ignore them at first as they're orbiting a worthless rock but then that escort or scout group gets reinforced and decides to have a picnic on Virgon. Also every turn you delay helping a colony its panic rises.

    On the other hand, at this stage I have one shipyard, two fleets. Want to reinforce a fleet, especially fast and in another system? Pay tylium for jumps. Oh, but there are cylons lurking along the way (or will be), your lone ship is likely to jump into cylons or vice versa. You send the whole fleet to escort it to the other, spending more tylium and not having a fleet elsewhere and not building more ships. Toasters everywhere just waiting to jump to some uninhabitated rock like Icarus or strike at Tauron denying you tylium. There's definite tension and the higher fleet point pools of the cylons on the highest difficulty level doesn't make shit easier.

    I need to wait and see if there is any more depth to the blueprints/research than visible at first glance. Same as far as ship customization goes, could have been better but I will see what the game throws at me later. But the options seem decent so far.

    Regarding combat, at first it doesn't seem all that complicated but its actually quite deep as far as tactical options go. Different ships have different firing arcs and armour thickness on their 6 sides which opens up possibilities. Lots of ways to position ships, flank or exploit other weaknesses. 3D space does make a difference although the "altitude" plane seems a bit limited and the ships always level so they can't be pitched straight up or something. The defensive/offensive focus slider matters, as does boosting thrusters as a 3rd option. Launching munitions such as guided missiles also is not a brainless choice. Smart fighter use can win battles as they are very versatile, they can harass vessels without proper flak, they can shoot down missiles (but only if they are in the correct position), scout and save your own ships from enemy fighters. Or help your capital ships by attacking whatever they are attacking if you just want to do a slugfest.

    My only butthurt so far is that Cylons can sometime jump into battle during it to reinforce what I originally see as a non-threatening raid that I can engage, while I do not believe I can do the same (at least yet). Easy fight I think I kill a ship, two more jump in. I mostly handle that despite the attrition and something else jumps in. Also it appears there is no retreat jump option in tactical battles, at least yet.
     
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  9. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

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    Why did they release this game for Xbox One and PS4? How are you supposed to play this game with gamepad?
     
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  10. da_raysgender: ⚧ Learned

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    Thanks for the review mate! I just finished the 1st mission and gotta admit its very nice to control your fleet in a 3axis envirronement . The replay at the end of the mission is a nice touch. And fucking toaster! That Cylon scout cutted speed while getting hunted by my 2 manticores and that resulted in a collision course for 1 of my fighter. Cylon eleminated , but 1:1 ratio in a war vs Cylons aint exactly a win. Gonna restart on a higher difficulty . And out off curiosity Hellraiser , whats the biggest fleet you had to control? Just imagining controling a fleet of 10+ starships vs a Cylon fleet of similiar numbers must be quite chaotic . In a good way.

    As for playing this on console , i assume its a conspiracy to convert has much gamepader as possible to the :obviously: side of mouse and keyboard. And that also mean no MP for me if i have just a 0,000091% chance of stumbling on an XboX user :)
     
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  11. Toffeligender: ⚧ Atomkrieg, ja bitte Patron

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    Having completed 8 missions on Commander diffuculty, I have two questions:
    1. I have unlocked both torpedo munitions and Viper MK II upgrades, how do I equip/upgrade my fleet with those?
    2. Can you assign multiple officers to one fleet? (Don't have enough requsition points just to try to save and load if it's possible)
     
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  12. ssergender: ⚧ Arcane Cuck

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  13. Norfleetgender: ⚧ Moderator

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    I don't think it's possible to be in this thread asking this question and have NO idea what Galactica is: You are in SPACE. You PEWPEW things. That is all that you need to know.
     
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  14. Hellraisergender: ⚧ Arcane

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    1. I assume you also spent the RP on them in the blueprints screen. You can change loadout during pre-battle FTL insertion planning where you position your ships. Just be aware that unless Daidalos is also in the fleet (or system? Not sure) you need to pay a supply cost for switching. I upgraded vipers on all my carriers in my Caprica fleet and it cost a decent amount, at least as much as starting production on a Manticore or Adamant.

    2. No, one officer per fleet. I guess this is because the fleet wide bonuses would need to stack.

    Overall yes, since in the end it is just about space fleets blowing shit up. There's just some minor pandering by shoving relatives of characters from the show into it all the time everywhere (it takes place 50 or so years prior). All you need to know is that mankind originated on a planet named Kobol but left it and settled 12 worlds around 4 stars, 2 thousand years prior. One of those worlds invented AI and now there are killer robots waging war which humanity could lose. Some people sympathize with the robots. Also FTL is instant but calculating a jump is a bitch so range is limited by the accuracy of the nav systems.

    The only thing to remember is that it tries to stay true to the conventions of combat from the series, so as far as weaponry is concerned it might be a bit limited. Pretty much in even a hard sci-fi setting you would have stuff like directed energy weapons and here it is only kinetic (mass drivers/railguns) and missiles with a large role of strike craft (primary defence against missiles, especially nukes).

    The bigger question is if the game is worth it if it didn't have the BSG license slapped on it and if it would get noticed without it. I will see once I finish it. I mean it is fun so far, but for the same concept even sans license I can think of at least a couple of things that would make it a better tactical/strategy game. I do not believe they utilized the potential fully in some cases. Could have gone in a more x-com direction, with some more/better strategic map mechanics and ship crew experience (only officers get it).

    In other news. Got a first "eliminate warband" mission to clean up a strike group operating out of Zeus (one of the few uninhabited gas giants). So I expect there to be some light carriers and medium cap ships like talons and revenants, send in my fleet of adamants (light carriers with good broadside guns) and manticores (light ships). I position my fleet as usual so far (wall of adamants with one side facing the enemy's approach direction). Only a few unidentified contacts so I seem to have the numbers advantage. Notice a lot of missiles being fired and a lot of fighters, so I assign the fighters to intercept (this is a bit clunky, fighters assigned to defend do not seek out the missile mid way so they need to be close to the missile when you give the order).

    Fighters ID the first target, a Nemesis (electronic warfare light ship). Nothing unsual. Then they ID the second one in the back. A Basestar (giant carrier and missile platform, biggest Cylon ship). The other 3 ships turned out to be three more base stars and a carrier. This is the first time I encountered any of those ships so it was a bit of a surprise. Luckily I had a lot of fighters on standby otherwise eating 3-4 volleys of missiles would decimate the fleet. And the Basestars didn't have nukes.

    Played until 6 a.m., didn't happen in a long time :M
     
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  15. Hellraisergender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Fortunately or unfortunately you can have only up to 7 capital ships in a fleet plus Daidalos. But I can tell you that with 7 it already gets problematic to plan turns. Because you have 7 ships plus at least as many fighters squadrons (I wonder what is the maxmimum, 3 wings per ship maybe?). And if you don't plan it properly you are bound to lose a firefight due to bad focus or not turning when one side of the armor gets blown up even when on paper you might win. And the AI loves to focus critical objectives so it is easy to lose if you don't check everything on the highest difficulty level. My only failed mission so far is when I was supposed to rescue a Tylium freighter for 1k worth of Tylium. I think it will be easy, but then the Cylons jump with raiders nearly next to it and even with boosted thrusters I barely get to the freighter before it gets blown up.
     
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  16. Bliblablubbgender: ⚧ Magister

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    Played it a while now, it's certainly fun. A little repetitive tho, but that's part of this type of game. Thankfully auto-resolve works in your favor (most of the times at least).

    Yet, there are a few things that trigger me:

    Armor facing: It's wonky as shit. I lost count how many times I almost lost ships because the game ignored the fact that the facing had changed. In one mission Battlestar Codexia survived with one frakking hitpoint, because the enemy was using boomerang ammo to hit her unarmored front. Instead of her fat ass he would only be able to hit for 2 turns already. :RAEG:

    Collisions: Happens. Part of the simultanious turns. But why an enemy just scratching the paint of my frigate makes her blow up without taking dmg himself is beyond me...

    Micromanagement: Is there way to group fighters? Having to assign targets for 14 Viper squadrons is a needless chore. Ctrl-click doesn't work at least.

    Fighters are gods: Not really a complaint, but still weird. Viper MK2 are so OP they could do all the work along, while your ships chill at the horizon. Cylons have no AA ability (aside from the raiders you always target first), making fighters literally indestructable. Plus contrary to real life, having yuge amounts in the "air" makes them getting even less hit, aside from being a massive cloud that should guarantee losses. When I use my 14 squadrons mainfleet, the worse that happened so far, was having 3 of them go down to 31/32 hps. Even tho the cylons have vastly out-teched me by now. Spent too much time dicking around. :oops:
    Only my scrap fleet with only 4 squadrons managed to get them damaged, to 2x/32. Not even a 3rd of the hps lost.

    Baiting: Seems that you can exploit the AI by baiting them. I had a 500fp shit detached from my mainfleet to extort protect a colony, and the next 3 rounds Cylons would drop everything to beeline for her. But since my mainfleet was chilling there I could clean the system without even moving. Feels cheap.


    Anyway, still a fun game for the occasional hour. Seeing Basestars blow up in the replay never gets old, even if they kill the framerate.

    Funfact: X-COM corrupted me. I thought a colony defecting was final and entering the spiral of decline. So I restarted. Aahaha nope. Game is so casual compared to X-COM, you can always just visit them and the come back to the fold.

    Also, aren't the 12 colones supposed to be in one system, as opposed to the 4 neighboring systems in this game?
     
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  17. *-*/\--/\~gender: ⚧ Learned

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    ^^ pretty much what he said - okay game that gets old after a while, especially when shots coming right from the side or even rear magically hit your front armor, nearly invulnerable fighters have more firepower than the battleship that lanched them and all the other wonky stuff.

    Not a bad game per se, but I think Slitherine would be better off pouring the effort into Sanctus Reach expansion rather than this.
     
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  18. Galdredgender: ⚧ Generalist Patron

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    It is not the same dev studio, and they already are working on Imperial Guard for Sanctus Reach.
    From Steam Forum
     
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  19. *-*/\--/\~gender: ⚧ Learned

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    Huh, for some reason I thought Slitherine is a developer.

    I read that thing on steam, but at this rate, it will take them a decade to add all the w40k races. :D
     
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  20. Galdredgender: ⚧ Generalist Patron

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    Don't worry about it, Games Workshop only gave them the licence for Guard and Chaos demons (wtf???). So they cannot add all the W40K races, unless they manage to broker a better deal with GW.
    They litterally only got the licence for the Sanctus Reach campaigns, so no race that did not set foot here is allowed :(
     
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  21. Hellraisergender: ⚧ Arcane

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    So far I made little progress in the campaign in the past few days. Mostly popping cylon moles and building up additional fleets. I have 3 out and it took me ridiculously long to realize I can level up officers without exp by spending RP. Of course, RP is needed for unlocking tech, but in hindsight besides Vipers MK II, the Adamant and Artemis I wouldn't say tech is a must have. Speaking of which some thoughts on strategy so far in the campaign.

    The most non-obvious thing in the game is knowing where the guns are placed and that apparently it is best to be a bit lower than the enemy with the Artemis, Minotaur and Adamant to have more of the guns firing. Sadly the game lacks a proper manual on what ships have what capabilities and there is no wiki.

    The Adamant is by far the best fleet filler in the campaign. It is reasonably fast and manuverable, the broadside damage is good and it has a munitions slot although with a 3 turn reloading time. Oh and of course you get a squadron slot for vipers. The tylium cost is very good for what you get. Also, because the AI likes to focus high point value targets, they don't become useless later on as they rarely get fired upon as long as the Cylons see anything more expensive than an Adamant. I fly them into crossfire from 3-5 Arachnes and Revenants and they almost never get shot because an Artemis is always more attractive for the toasters.

    The Artemis is a bit underrated by some. Sure, point for point the Adamant is more cost-effective but then you hit the 7 ship per fleet limit and cost effectiveness matters little when Cylons jump in 9 ships in a battle. The firepower from its guns is decent and it has long range artillery guns (just don't expect them to hit shit without posture set to maximum attack). Two squadrons is the biggest advantage of this ship, as Viper MK II win battles. You get flak capability (although this disables all non-artillery guns on it when enabled) and its a Cylon magnet, so you can use it to bait missiles after Arachnes show up. Also you get a munitions slot that reloads in 2 turns.

    Manticores stop becoming useful after Arachne's show up. The problem is that cost-effectiveness matters little when the Cylons field fleets larger numerically than you can filled with big scary ships with big scary missiles and lots of guns.

    Minotaurs are arguably useless. The main problem here is that having guns is nice but engaging in a slug-fest is something you want to prolong as long as possible (Cylon doctrine of long range missiles and fighters also seems to be best for Colonials). Also they are kind of a Cylon magnet, but without the flaks, artillery or fighters that make an Artemis useful even if it needs to focus on getting killed. Its advantage is that you get guns, and only guns, cheaply. But cheap fleets don't win fights when the Cylons have apparently a post-scarcity economy centred around total war.

    Rangers are good, but they run into the problem of being a Cylon magnet. Still, two munitions slot with the lowest munition reload time is very good and its disadvantage can be mitigated by simply having it sit way in the back, with a spare fighter squadron, firing missiles at targets identified by other ships.

    I do not have Atlases yet but they seem to be weak on paper which I will note below. Yes two viper squadrons sound nice. Then again Vipers are the best weapon in the game. I will have to see if 2 vipers is better than an Archer with two salvos.

    Overall, as far as facing the Chrome Centurions in their Spaceships is concerned, it seems the Colonials best bet in the Campaign is not to engage them directly until the very last moment. Vipers are superior to Raiders and outside of Raiders Cylon anti-fighter capability simply does not exist. Its just a question of sending out vipers ASAP and blobbing them together into a death cloud. Kill as much crap as possible before the Cylons even fire one shot at anything other than a viper. I rarely see viper II drop below 30 hull out of 32, if they do it is because they flew into my own flak field.

    The biggest threat from the Cylons are their missiles first, guns second. Well ok, there are heavy raiders, Nemesis' hacking and Wardriver hacking as well. Also raiders do hurt if you let them get into firing range. But the thing is, strike craft are easy to manage. The nemesis can be annoying but it needs to get into your gun range first and it is easier to kill than Revenants and Arachnes which you do not want to get close. But if there is one thing that made for the biggest spike in difficulty, is fleets full of Revenants and Arachnes. Arachnes seem to be able to fire missiles every turn. Face 5 of them and the sheer amount of missiles is difficult to manage. And their guns do hurt, not as much as the Revenant, but they hurt. The only way to really combat them effectively is to not let them get a lock and kill them with vipers. Or to kill off their Revenant escort with Viper mk IIs and charge in with battlestars acting as missile bait with flaks on. Well, I guess PCMs and Sweepers also work but I do not have those yet.

    I think swapping the Artemis munitions slot from missiles to a PCM might be a good idea, but I would have to see how it work in action.

    IMO Revenants and Arachnes are by far much more difficult to manage than basestars. For basestars viper defence when missiles were launched was enough. Basestar guns are not very threatening so all you need to do is kill missiles and close the distance. With Revenants you want to pound them from as far away as possible, with Arachnes you want to simply kill them ASAP.

    Contrary to what the tooltips say I cannot add a 7th ship to a fleet with the Daidalos in it. Although even if I could I still think the two extra vipers are not worth the inflexibility and risk of bringing Daidalos to battle from mid-game onwards. Early on those two squadrons are a significant advantage. But after Cylon task forces get larger babysitting the thing becomes tedious. Furthermore you cannot auto-resolve battles where the Daidalos is present and there's lots of tedious toaster mole popping going on.



    Also there's a roadmap published by the devs for some changes in upcoming patches. Campaign configuration and retreat jumps are the two most needed ones IMO. I also wouldn't mind attrition as long as it also applied to Cylons and their repair bases could be destroyed. With FTL retreating this could open up some new strategy to dealing with Cylon blobs. In Stardrive 2 I likes to build ships with railguns and fighters, kill as much as possible from long range and retreat before the enemy moved into range of his guns :M

     
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  22. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
    So, this is a Star Trek game?
     
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  23. Bliblablubbgender: ⚧ Magister

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    RPs are always tight, since you need them for research. Sadly, after a while promoting officers though battle becomes a problem, when Cylon fleets start at 3000/3900 FP, so going in with an unleveled 2000 FP officer doesn't cut it anymore. Best to level two of them early if you want backup fleets, even if you don't have the ships to fill them yet.

    Gun placement on ships is a clusterfuck, since it's not only the amount/direction they fire, but also the dmg/acc for them. You can see it by going to the "turrets" menu for each ship and check them. Obviously the shitty accuracy of the Battlestar's top artillery is neglectable against large targets.

    Adamants are FAR better than the Manticores, for a lowly 250FP more. The only ships I lost so far were those corvettes, because their low HP/armor made them popcorn after a while...

    The best fleet setup I use so far is (IIRC): the shipyard, 4 Artemis Battlestars and 2 Adamant frigates. Thanks to Artemis costing 1550 FP instead of 1500 FP, the rest FPs can't be used. :argh:
    Gives you 12 Viper Mk2 squadrons, 6 missile tubes plus the ship's guns. The Battlestars charging in front, while the frigates go flanking. You could replace the frigates with another BS if you are more into guns than one extra missile. Shipyard is still safe (aside from one mission with Cylon backup), but I know my fleet will have to leave spacemum behind eventually. Sad.

    At first I thought torpedos were shit, because they miss a lot. But! You can fire them at targets while they are still unidentified. Target a slow moving dradis contact that launched a fighter (hopefully a Basestar) early and you will be ready to fire a 2nd salvo when you are closer.
    Protip: Artemis missile tubes are at their "neck". I once had my turning fleet fire each other in the ass, because I thought the missile bays would be in the back. :roll: Yes, there is friendly fire.

    I completely skipped Minotaur and the other ship in the upper resarch line. Fighters are just too good to sacrifce them for extra missles and low hp boats.

    And yeah, Revenants are the most annoying bitches so far. Soooo many turrets. Basestars are pretty lulzy compared to them. Those are simply too large and slow moving, so everyone can hit them from the other side of the map. I did encounter two new ships recently (one of them the Arachne), probably some Cylon battlestar equivalent. Nothing that triggered me like the Revenants tho. They didn't go missle crazy yet, but when Cylon missles become a problem, it will be time for flak and PCMs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
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  24. Hellraisergender: ⚧ Arcane

    Hellraiser
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2007
    Parrots:
    7,273
    Location:
    Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
    The first patch is out and, as expected, battlestar artillery gets a buff (and gets idiot-proofed because people did not know they need to focus fire big ships with it*) and fighters get a nerf. Also both battlestars got more hullpoints and light turrets got nerfed. Seems to be a change to make the big toys more useful in a slugfest. Now I need to check what kind of turrets adamants use :M

    Also they fixed that bug/feature that deprived me of winning 1k tylium in a defend a Tylium freighter mission (the mission was unwinnable because the cylons spawned one turn away from it).

     
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  25. Circuitgender: ⚧ Educated

    Circuit
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Parrots:
    98
    When playing on consoles, the battles are already scripted and require no control from the player. You just have to mash the buttons once in a while for your console not to go in the sleep mode.
     
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