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Battle Brothers Pre-Release Thread

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Very nice changes. A minor thing on the cool to have list :
It would be nice to be able to see both the stash, and the roster when in the equipment screen, in order to get a better idea of the total supply of weapons and armors, and the current numbers.
Once the battle brothers specialize, it might not help much, though, as they will probably be equipped depending on their specialty.
 

rapsdjff

Overhype Studios
Developer
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
330
What I would love to see would be some kind of 'rolling the dice' info when you attack or defend. I like to know what's happening in the background.
Hm. Could you give me more of an example of what you have in mind? Different factors influencing the hitchance are already displayed in the tooltip that shows when targeting an opponent. Actual calculations in combat also aren't all that complex, being mostly just defense subtracted from attack skill equals hitchance, as described in the tooltips in the character screen. You can also read up on the combat mechanics here.

It would be nice to be able to see both the stash, and the roster when in the equipment screen, in order to get a better idea of the total supply of weapons and armors, and the current numbers.
I agree, it can be a bit cumbersome currently. Unfortunately, as I said previously, the problem is that we want to support a minimum resolution of 1024x768 while also avoiding having to do two or more layouts (and later on skin them) for different resolutions, given our limited resources and all. At that resolution, there is just not enough space to fit both on the screen at the same time at a discernible size. If resources should somehow become a non-issue in the future, we'll revisit this.

Would be a shame if i did not try the demo, since i got the avatar and all. Downloading!
Sooooo.. how did you like it? :M
 

RedScum

Arbiter
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Aug 20, 2011
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846
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The prestigious north.
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Tried the hill scenario 2-3 times now, not emerged victorious yet. Could really use some fastforward button to speed things up with over 20 characters moving about.
 

34scell

Augur
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
384
I think riposte is too powerful; a single shield bro could theoretically dominate multiple stronger enemies with shield wall + riposte. Perhaps you could limit the number of counter attacks (and add an upgrade to the number of attacks in the skill tree)?.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I think riposte is too powerful; a single shield bro could theoretically dominate multiple stronger enemies with shield wall + riposte. Perhaps you could limit the number of counter attacks (and add an upgrade to the number of attacks in the skill tree)?.
Actually, I was thinking the same about the spearwall. Both actions potentially allow a lot of attacks for their costs.
 

Liston

Augur
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
200
I think riposte is too powerful; a single shield bro could theoretically dominate multiple stronger enemies with shield wall + riposte. Perhaps you could limit the number of counter attacks (and add an upgrade to the number of attacks in the skill tree)?.
Actually, I was thinking the same about the spearwall. Both actions potentially allow a lot of attacks for their costs.

They could lower activation fatigue cost and add fatigue cost on each strike. If they tweak it correctly the ability would work the same for the most probable scenario (~3 successful strikes) but it would provide more cost-benefit considerations if you got lucky.
 

rapsdjff

Overhype Studios
Developer
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Messages
330
Have you experienced the skills to be actually unbalanced/broken in play, though, or are this only theoretical considerations for now?

Consider also that those skills are special and are (given the right situation) supposed to be stronger in some way than basic attacks. We balance this by limiting their use with high fatigue costs; a bro could, depending on armor load, use the Shieldwall+Riposte combo for no more than 2 turns in succession, during which he can't perform any regular attacks, and after which he'll be completely fatigued. For Riposte alone to be cost-effective, the player depends on the goodwill of enemies to attack and miss at least 2 times. During this, the player gives initiative to the opponent and runs the risk of them hitting and potentially killing the bro before he can get his 2+ attacks in. If we nerf this, I think your idea of limiting the number of potential counter attacks and have more be unlockable via skilltree is a good one.

Since Spearwall doesn't have a synergy with Shieldwall like Riposte does, bros can use it for more rounds in succession. It can be pretty strong also because it can stack with one or two other Spearwall users on adjacent tiles, significantly increasing the chance for getting one of their attacks in. On the other hand, it can be soft-countered by the AI using Shieldwall prior to engaging targets with Spearwall up (at least if they carry a shield), and simply prioritizing non-Spearwall targets (which zombies don't do, though). The primary use of Spearwall should be keeping enemies at bay, with some damage ontop. For this reason, the skill already does reduced damage (which the tooltip apparently doesn't show, I'll rectify that). If it is your experience that using Spearwall alone is somehow the most effective/secure way of killing opponents, though, it needs rebalancing. Lowering the damage it inflicts further could be a good start to keep its unique mechanic in place but make it less of a killing-skill, as could a +5 fatigue cost adjustment or so.

The idea of a lower activation cost for Riposte and Spearwall and their automated attacks instead have some fatigue cost is also interesting. I'm not convinced yet because it would be kind of an exception in the current skill system and to the zone of control mechanic (those attacks also come for free), and make things harder to plan for and keep track off. There are some advantages to it also, though. We'll give it some thought.
 

Liston

Augur
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
200
Have you experienced the skills to be actually unbalanced/broken in play, though, or are this only theoretical considerations for now?

To be honest it's more theoretical consideration at this point because I haven't spent enough time with the game to make definitive comments about balance. A couple of times a bro with a spear and height advantage was able to hold alone against 3-4 zombies and kill most of them without losing any health. It just seams that it's OP if you manage to get 4-5 strikes in a turn.

Also I really like what I've seen so far, this game definitively have great potential.
 

34scell

Augur
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
384
I don't know if it's unbalanced, but it seems incongruous when the other skills are about smaller tactical differences, rather than turning a bro into a killing machine in specific situations.
 

Crabcakes

Overhype Studios
Developer
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
68
Location
Hamburg
Hey, that sounds like a lot of good old bro-action is going on!
By the way, get ready for some hardcore stuff. Medieval style decapitations, smashed in skulls and guts popping out!
Enjoy!
war-whatisitgoodfor.jpg
 

RedScum

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The prestigious north.
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Emerged victorious from the line battle, Bros prevail! Used the same setup as previous scenario - changed two bowbros for 2 sword + shieldbros. Archers feels kinde underwhelming when you can just increase your front with two more soldiers. Only lost 1 guy in this fight when i changed my setup.
Also it felt really good to see the necromancer and his last skeleton archers on the run when my battle brothers started closing in on them! Run you pale bastard, run!
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Emerged victorious from the line battle, Bros prevail! Used the same setup as previous scenario - changed two bowbros for 2 sword + shieldbros. Archers feels kinde underwhelming when you can just increase your front with two more soldiers. Only lost 1 guy in this fight when i changed my setup.
Also it felt really good to see the necromancer and his last skeleton archers on the run when my battle brothers started closing in on them! Run you pale bastard, run!
You can give them backup weapons in the inventory. I usually give them a bill, as it only takes one round to equip, and allow them to fight without risking their lives too much when it comes to melee(as they have pretty crappy helmets HP wise).
 

Crabcakes

Overhype Studios
Developer
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
68
Location
Hamburg
I´ve got the slight feeling that some balancing tweaks might be incoming :)
Meanwhile, have a look at some guts spilling out! yay!
guts.jpg
 

rapsdjff

Overhype Studios
Developer
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
330
Update Time!

Dev Blog #15: Progress Update – Fatalities, new weapons and more…

While we said before that our focus is now on the strategy part of the game, we’re constantly tempted to add little things to the tactical part as well. Seeing you play the demo and provide feedback gives us a lot of inspiration, and this is why this week we went back and added some new features and reworked others.

If you haven’t played our combat demo yet, get it here (DOWNLOAD) and tell us what you think and what you would like to see in the game! Do mind that the changes below are not part of the demo yet!

Reworked Damage System
We want our weapons to feel different not just with with unique skills, but also in how they perform against armored and unarmored opponents. Previously, a select number of weapons gave a small damage bonus when hitting armor. That made some weapons slightly better suited against armor, but it didn’t have that much of an impact damage-wise, since basically every weapon did a good chunk of damage to armor anyway. In fact, it didn’t seem to influence player strategy much at all.

We’ve now reworked that system so that different weapons perform significantly better or worse against armor in a way that has a definite impact on gameplay and equipment selection, while at the same time presenting this in a way that should be more clear and easy to understand. This is how it works:

Each weapon has a base damage range with a minimum and maximum damage value. If a target with no armor is hit, that damage is applied in full to the target’s hitpoints.



If, however, the target is protected by armor, a second property of every weapon comes into play, called the “effectiveness against armor”. This value is a percentage number that governs how much of the weapon’s damage is applied to damage any armor on a hit instead of hitpoints, for as long as there is armor left. For example, a dagger has an effectiveness against armor of 60%, so only 60% of its damage applies to damage and reduce a target’s armor. Clearly, then, a dagger performs better against unarmored targets. On the other hand, a warhammer has an effectiveness against armor of 200%, meaning that it does double its normal damage to any armor. Other weapons, like swords, might have a higher base damage and thereby be better at killing off unarmored and lightly armored opponents, but against heavily armored opponents, a warhammer is king.

Double Grip
If you’ve played the demo, you might have noticed that shields are seriously important. In fact, other than not having a shield to spare in the first place, there wasn’t ever a good reason not to wear a shield and just have one hand free.

That’s somewhat authentic, of course, since shields apparently were essential on medieval battlefields. On the other hand, we want to give you, the player, choices. We don’t want every single Battle Brother to be equipped the same. Not wearing a shield doesn’t need to be equally as viable as wearing a shield all the time, but there definitely should be situations where it makes sense and where you have to make a choice that isn’t a no-brainer.

We’ve now introduced the concept of “Double Grip”. When equipped with a one-handed weapon and having the off-hand free, Battle Brothers (and for that matter, many enemies) will use both hands to swing their weapon and enjoy a significant damage increase. From now on, in situations where you favor increased damage over increased defense, whether in your spearwall or when fighting a single powerful enemy, you can just order your men to put their shields on their backs and swing away with full force. As it happens, this is also a small piece of additional historical accuracy added, as a lot of weapons were actually long enough to be used both with one or with two hands. We’ll see how it works out in the game as time goes on, but already we’re quite satisfied with the added gameplay options and authenticity.

New Weapons
In the wake of the new damage system we also implemented two new weapons into the game. Of course, like all weapons, they come with their unique skills that should give them a tactical niche of their own.

The Warhammer
This weapon is designed to be as effective as possible against armor and thus will be more important in the later stages of the game when armor will be more common. The base damage is moderate but it does a lot of damage against armor. The warhammer’s skills support this design even further.



The first skill, “Batter”, is an attack with the sharp side of the hammer. On top of any armor damage done, it always also inflicts a small amount of damage to hitpoints, no matter the armor protecting the target, by the mere force of impact.

The second skill, “Crush Armor”, does exactly what it sounds like. The hammer is used to batter, deform, rip and otherwise render the target’s armor unusable. It does no damage to hitpoints other than a small amount with every hit by the force of impact, just like “Batter” does. However, it inflicts double the warhammer’s damage to armor. This skill excels against heavily armored targets and is best employed to destroy armor before engaging with other weapons.

The Military Cleaver
The military cleaver is a version of a regular cleaver used by a butcher but designed for warfare. It is not well suited against armored opponents but it can rip terrifying wounds on unarmored targets.

cleaverwithskills.jpg


The first skill, “Cleave”, causes bleeding wounds that inflict additional bleeding damage over the next two turns if the attack does any hitpoint damage at all (i.e. isn’t completely absorbed by armor).

The second skill is called “Decapitate”, an attack aimed right at a target’s neck. It does more damage to hitpoints the more the target is already injured, and therefore is an excellent finisher for already wounded opponents, especially those that have a lot of hitpoints. If the attack kills the target, it is decapitated and you can see it’s head flying through the air! Yeah, we just added that feature, but see the next point for details.



Fatalities
Dealing the killing blow to an enemy now has a chance of causing a so-called fatality effect. Fatalities differ for each weapon type. For example, bladed weapons can decapitate and gut a target, and blunt weapons can crush the head. Different skills also have a different likelihood of causing these; the “Decapitate” skill will always decapitate, and the “Swing” skill of Greatswords has a higher chance to do so than the “Slash” skill of one-handed swords.

Fatalities serve two purposes. First, they portray the fatalism of our pseudo-medieval engagements, especially in light of our perma-death mechanic. If your favorite veteran Battle Brother dies now by getting his head chopped off, it should hurt even more. A medieval battlefield really is no picknick. Second, there are actual gameplay effects, at least when fighting the undead. Necromancers are unable to raise the bodies of characters that have been decapitated or their head smashed in. Grabbing those cleavers could be a good option when fighting an army of zombies!

 
Last edited:

rapsdjff

Overhype Studios
Developer
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
330
Probably not anytime soon. We really want to focus on getting the strategy part of the game done now in order to have all the core pillars of gameplay ready and to make a big step towards an early access version with which to fund further development. There's still some balancing to be done with the new damage system, and in order to get most people to give the combat demo another shot, we'd probably have to add new scenarios and at least one new enemy, preferably non-undead, all of which would be a detraction from getting us to where we need to be with the game as a whole. We may consider doing an updated combat demo further down the line.
 

Bibbimbop

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
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Jan 12, 2014
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8,550
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Shadow Banned
Love it so far, and the changes seem to be heading in the right direction.

I really wish there were replay function, though, and the ability to load up and watch old battles.

Second wish would be a detailed stat screen after the battle with kills, damage output totals versus armour and health, most used tactics, plus whatever else you can throw in.

The first skill, “Batter”, is an attack with the sharp side of the hammer. On top of any armor damage done, it always also inflicts a small amount of damage to hitpoints, no matter the armor protecting the target, by the mere force of impact.

I'd suggest a different term here. “Batter” usually implies multiple blunt force strikes. The skill sounds more like a “Pierce” or a “Penetrate” action.

The second skill, “Crush Armor”, does exactly what it sounds like. The hammer is used to batter, deform, rip and otherwise render the target’s armor unusable. It does no damage to hitpoints other than a small amount with every hit by the force of impact, just like “Batter” does. However, it inflicts double the warhammer’s damage to armor. This skill excels against heavily armored targets and is best employed to destroy armor before engaging with other weapons.

If metal armour is being torn, there's a chance of dents and jagged edges restricting movement, too. Not sure whether you can fit that into the system. However, in general, I believe your system could have more debuffs for enemies. Maybe thrown nets and bolos? Placed traps?

Are there plans for character attributes like Strength modifying damage and Endurance modifying fatigue recovery?

Lastly, will it ever be possible to have more than 12 characters on a map? Line Battle has left me with an itch for 20v20 or so.
 

rapsdjff

Overhype Studios
Developer
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
330
Yay!

I really wish there were replay function, though, and the ability to load up and watch old battles.

Probably not something we'll do. Sorry.

Second wish would be a detailed stat screen after the battle with kills, damage output totals versus armour and health, most used tactics, plus whatever else you can throw in.

Yep, we're going to have a stat screen like that after every mission, though we've yet to see what stats it will contain exactly. In addition, every Battle Brother will have a stat screen of his own (the history tab that can already be seen in the combat demo but isn't used yet).

I'd suggest a different term here. “Batter” usually implies multiple blunt force strikes. The skill sounds more like a “Pierce” or a “Penetrate” action.

Thanks. This is a name we changed multiple times and never were completely satisfied with. It doesn't help that none of us are native English speakers. I guess it's time to change it again.

If metal armour is being torn, there's a chance of dents and jagged edges restricting movement, too. Not sure whether you can fit that into the system. However, in general, I believe your system could have more debuffs for enemies. Maybe thrown nets and bolos? Placed traps?

Good idea. Thrown nets are already on our list - goblins are supposed to make frequent use of them, and the player will be able to loot and use them as well. We didn't consider placed traps before but I'll put it down for things to discuss. We're going to have more debuffs in general for the final game, some of which can only be afflicted by magical means (i.e. by certain enemies or magic items), such as temporarily being entangled by vile roots or blinded.

Are there plans for character attributes like Strength modifying damage and Endurance modifying fatigue recovery?

We won't have strength, endurance or similiar attributes in addition to the character stats currently in the game. Players will be able to raise hitpoints, morale, maximum fatigue (or stamina, if you will), melee and ranged skill, as well as melee and ranged defense of their Battle Brothers on levelup. In addition, with each levelup, a passive skill (or perk or feat, if you prefer) can be selected to further specialize the Battle Brother; to have a character be extraordinarily strong and do increased damage, then, you'd just have to pick the appropriate skill from the skilltree. Although this is still heavily subject to change, we currently have 9 different small skilltrees, including "leadership" (skills related to morale), "mobility" (related to movement on difficult terrain) and "constitution" (fatigue and related effects, like immunity to being knocked back).

Lastly, will it ever be possible to have more than 12 characters on a map? Line Battle has left me with an itch for 20v20 or so.

The current limit is set at 12 per battle because at some point managing more people could really strain the player’s ability to keep track of everything, not to mention rounds taking forever, since we would also have to scale up the number of opponents. That number is not set in stone, though, and we’ll see how it plays for a while and whether we should keep it like this.
 

SmartCheetah

Arcane
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
1,078
Are you guys planning something like a wall of fame(or rather shame) where player could check all his battle bro's who already died (and maybe how they died and how many things they took with 'em?)
Would be a nice addition.
 

rapsdjff

Overhype Studios
Developer
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
330
Yes. It will include the name of the Battle Brother, a few stats and who/what killed him, e.g. "Otto, gutted by a Werewolf".
 

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