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Battle Brothers Pre-Release Thread

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
nice game. only started it once and bought myself a 4th mercenary thinking if he's expensive he'd be more valuable. had to read 16 pages of this thread to understand why i lost my first battle and everyone got killed and the combat log wouldn't tell me why my people died. maybe stuff like that should be somewhere in the game like a big fucking warning in the intro: "you will suck, your bros will die and you will learn!" only thing left to do is start over.
on a side note, since i'm not gonna read another 16 pages because i wanna play it again: what's up with the real time on the map? all i hear is turn based tactical combat and the world map sucks my coins and food out of my pockets while i look at / search for locations. as a turn based player, which i am whenever i feel like playing a turn based game, this is a huge issue. maybe i'll get used to it. maybe not. but what were your thoughts when you made such a design decision? i mean it should be clear from the get go that someone who wants to play a turn based game does not want to be put under time pressure.
I'd also like to know why your units can miss in this game. if it's about tactics, what is the point of the randomness generator?

The real time map and being being able to miss in combat, coupled with permanent death, is part of the X-COM way of evoking tension that the game is going for (the devs are big X-COM fans). Outside of combat, not having turns means that you are never safe while moving around and you have to keep an eye on your resources. Inside of combat, being able to miss means you are almost never guaranteed to deal with a threat and have to be able to react to unexpected results. Me, I liked it in X-COM and I like it here as well. It's part of why I'm recommending the game to people not just as an RPG, but as a spiritual sequel to X-COM. The combat is also so lethal that hitting or missing does not slow it down - that's usually my problem with it in other games, as I just get bored having to wait for someone to get hit and die already.

Just in case you didn't know, you can pause on the strategic map by pressing space. The game's UI isn't very clear on this (it'll get reworked at one point in the development process), but it helps if you want to look around at your own pace. The missing also becomes less of an issue as you play more, as you learn how to make the most of the Outnumbered bonus, what weapons to use against whom and get some levels on your mercs.
yeah, i played some more and got used to the whole thing. real time outside of combat still bothers me, though. they could have gone with turn based map movement with low view range. as in lower than walking range. the danger would have still been there but moving around at a certain set speed and waiting on the loot/gear to get repaired for minutes because you are at least somewhat safer near a town would not have been such a bore. also fucking trees on the combat map piss me off. they hide stuff from me that my units could see very well. seriously, just make them smaller or replace them with symbols of trees. and give me a fucking hex grid i don't really know most of the time where one ends and another begins. gonna post more issues if i find more.
aside from that, the game is incline all the way. nice job. since the game is playable and good i'll mark it as released early access on my list thread.
game unrelated issue: please don't use diablo 3 as an example of anything, especially not when it comes to itemization. i wouldn't even call the special items legendary, i'd go with artifacts. i'm almost sure you're not stupid enough to implement the boots of shitting fire while kiting but if you notice the "almost" in this sentence you should realize why it's not good to mention diablo 3.
EDIT: like i said, if i find more issues i'll post them. i can't say i like the perks and the perk system. here's my suggestion: since the game is in early access: make them powerful, make them mandatory or optional (as in, if i click on my soldier and saw that he leveled up but didn't invest anything in perks, remove the level up arrow, else i can't keep track of level ups or make me choose), balance them out with powerful penalties. not gonna suggest whether they should all be situational, or all general, or both since i'm not gonna spend hours of thinking up some and then comparing them in my mind. the game is at an experimental stage and people should have something to experiment with. it's also single player so it doesn't need to be microbalanced. none of that +something% crap. it's just too easy and predictable and not fun for the player to chose between numbers and it's lazy of you to implement it that way. i also don't like how i need to spend a certain amount of perk points to be able to unlock more perks. it doesn't make any sense. i might not need all or any of the previous perks and if the higher tier perks are too powerful for lowies, why would the game allow lowies to be ambushed by orc warriors? if the game is open world and anything goes, don't impose level requirements. make it interesting, not linear. for more randomness and rogue like feeling + a bunch of replayability and motivation to release mercs and hire new ones you could even randomize the penalties. here's an example from stone soup mutations: you can get antennae growing on your head which let you detect creatures behind walls if i remember correctly but you can't wear any helmets any more. here's the addaptation to your game: max mustermann learned from experience to watch out for color contrasts when looking over the battlefield. he gains +3 vision. he thinks it's one of the most important reasons for still being alive so he refuses to wear any headgear that impairs his view. feel free to play some stone soup or come up with your own ideas, but please replace the boring perk system. the randomized version: max mustermann learned from experience to watch out for color contrasts when looking over the battlefield. he gains +3 vision. he also sprayed his ankle too often and is now very careful when walking. he needs +1 action points for every move on the battlefield. i don't think you can argue that this kind of advancement isn't much more natural, organic, personal and fun.
it also kills max mustermann every time you retreat, since he's never gonna make it to the map margin before the enemies get him. :smug:
next issue: world map speed seriously needs to be increased and/or the repair, recover health system needs to be made instant. it's just too stupid to wait around till your healt/gear fills up and it will be done since it's also stupid to attack anyone with missing health/bad gear. i get it how it can happen that you get attacked when not yet at full health/repaired gear but i've been playing since yesterday and not once did that happen. a simple effective solution would be repairing, healing in towns and outposts. you could even let the system in place and still implement instant healing and repairs in towns since having arrived at a town people will want to do stuff like get quests or move on, not wait several days there so the stuff and health gets fixed. i know even towns get attacked, but seriously the towns have some kind of basic militia to help anyway. so when they get attacked the fights are not that hard. OR you could just implement turn based world map. it would/should speed things up quite a bit. also the map needs more population. as it stands it feels empty. lots of moving around, not many objects (caravans, armies, locations). i know they are there, but i'd just like more of them and less need to move around for days with nothing to see.
next issue: i'm not sure rogue likes need different difficulty settings. been playing on easy and since i can buy heavy armor from the start all the time my people rarely get killed if at all. i thought this game was about having your units get killed. why is this an issue since it's basically my fault for playing on easy? it's an issue because it removes the element of surprise and the element of learning to play the game. monster abilities, trying out perks... so you think to yourself, normal is pretty hard why not learn about the game a bit before playing on normal and try easy instead? and by the time you're done much of the incentive to play it again on normal or even hard is gone because there's not much new for you to experience. remove difficulty levels. choose a starting environment that provides some challenge and go with that.
 
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sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,687
The world map is probably going to be revamped, but there's a lot of time left for that. Healing/repairs are slow because otherwise you wouldn't ever take the shape of a 'damaged' party. I sometimes go into fights and try and keep some brothers out of harms way because they're too beat up. In the future, when a larger roster is available with the ability to 'bench' people, it'll make more sense gameplay-wise to slowly heal up (in the same manner that X-Com/XCOM do). Repairs need to be necessarily slow because equipment is meant to be exchanged and rolled through. I personally like the idea of my men getting rather beat up in the field if they take too many fights on in a row.

Perks are being looked at. They're all actually quite new and balance changes are constantly coming. Diablo 3 is not being used as a reference point for loot. Legendary items will be necessarily rare.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
The world map is probably going to be revamped, but there's a lot of time left for that. Healing/repairs are slow because otherwise you wouldn't ever take the shape of a 'damaged' party. I sometimes go into fights and try and keep some brothers out of harms way because they're too beat up. In the future, when a larger roster is available with the ability to 'bench' people, it'll make more sense gameplay-wise to slowly heal up (in the same manner that X-Com/XCOM do). Repairs need to be necessarily slow because equipment is meant to be exchanged and rolled through. I personally like the idea of my men getting rather beat up in the field if they take too many fights on in a row.

Perks are being looked at. They're all actually quite new and balance changes are constantly coming. Diablo 3 is not being used as a reference point for loot. Legendary items will be necessarily rare.
nothing wrong with having to fight with a less than optimally prepared party if you do not do so by choice. doing it by choice would be 'stupid' as in bad risk management of party leader. also necessarily slow does not compute since nothing is keeping me from waiting except for the time i have to spend waiting, which is not a good way to motivate me to fight with a damaged party. equipment cycling is also not something a mercenary party will do if it doesn't have to. if i give someone a set of armor and weapons i do it for reasons. i'm not gonna exchange it if i don't have to and since waiting for it to be repaired does not risk the life of my men i will wait. it just won't be fun. cycling party members does give some sense to the slow healing and repairs but it does not make sense on it's own without the need to cycle them. especially since they will cost more upkeep. of course if the game would somehow make fighting urgent we'd have a whole other scenario.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
are the devs still bros? been looking at the last few pages of the thread and while they were all over the first 15
So my campaign so far:

I'm starting to get the hang of things, did a couple of quests and got some decent gear. However, during a fight with some crappy bandits (whom we were completely butchering) one of my guys took a VERY UNLUCKY arrow and sadly, passed away. Even though his death didn't mean game over (far from that) I had to scale back a bit and currently the only quests I'm getting are Fedex "go to city X" quests. No more contracts to kill stuff. Also, there is a "destroy den" contract, but it's WAAAAAY above my power level. The game became pretty slow atm, since those Fedex contracts give very little profit. Usually half of the reward goes toward merc upkeep. Any tips? Also: is there any way of checking a guy's stats BEFORE I hire him? This is specially annoying with archers, since most guys that come equipped with a bow are NOT competent archers AT ALL.
mercs cost next to nothing on their own. you usually pay the biggest amount for the gear they wear. you can keep the gear, fire the merc, hire new merc and repeat. if you don't have enough money you basically don't get to choose merc abilities. it's that simple.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,041
When is release version coming? When is "ready to play" version coming? When is enhanced edition (we all know it will have it) coming?
 

Eyestabber

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
4,733
Location
HUEland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
When is release version coming?
According to Lucky, April, 2016.

When is "ready to play" version coming?
EA version is already pretty meaty and FUN. There is also a demo, but I don't know its status (I own EA).

When is enhanced edition (we all know it will have it) coming?
I've yet to encounter a single bug in this game, despite the fact that the game is a year away from release. So I doubt an EE will ever come. Devs are pretty aware of what they can and can't accomplish with a small team and the game reflects that.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,041
wtf, it is in EA 1 year before release?!
So this will be another Grim Dawn?
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,687
are the devs still bros? been looking at the last few pages of the thread and while they were all over the first 15
So my campaign so far:

I'm starting to get the hang of things, did a couple of quests and got some decent gear. However, during a fight with some crappy bandits (whom we were completely butchering) one of my guys took a VERY UNLUCKY arrow and sadly, passed away. Even though his death didn't mean game over (far from that) I had to scale back a bit and currently the only quests I'm getting are Fedex "go to city X" quests. No more contracts to kill stuff. Also, there is a "destroy den" contract, but it's WAAAAAY above my power level. The game became pretty slow atm, since those Fedex contracts give very little profit. Usually half of the reward goes toward merc upkeep. Any tips? Also: is there any way of checking a guy's stats BEFORE I hire him? This is specially annoying with archers, since most guys that come equipped with a bow are NOT competent archers AT ALL.
mercs cost next to nothing on their own. you usually pay the biggest amount for the gear they wear. you can keep the gear, fire the merc, hire new merc and repeat. if you don't have enough money you basically don't get to choose merc abilities. it's that simple.


Rap is currently moving and getting situated. I'm currently writing events which will be the next addition.

Eventually, the quests will be expanded upon. Right now they just give you a general baseline to do stuff.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
10,055
wtf, it is in EA 1 year before release?!
So this will be another Grim Dawn?

Not exactly the same boat, as you can see from this forum alone: A) They worked on it for years before going EA and B) They did not run this through kickstarter. Furthermore, the game as it is even now is actually pretty damn fun. Plus, if you haven't bought it why are you butthurt about how long it will be in EA?

PS go back to shitting on hatred.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,041
wtf, it is in EA 1 year before release?!
So this will be another Grim Dawn?

Not exactly the same boat, as you can see from this forum alone: A) They worked on it for years before going EA and B) They did not run this through kickstarter. Furthermore, the game as it is even now is actually pretty damn fun. Plus, if you haven't bought it why are you butthurt about how long it will be in EA?

PS go back to shitting on hatred.
Because I don't play EA games anymore and it made me very sad to find out it is coming out in 1 year.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
10,055
Because I don't play EA games anymore and it made me very sad to find out it is coming out in 1 year.

Eh, like I said the developers worked on it quite a while before going EA and have produced a decent game already, I logged about 40 hours so far before I started playing other stuff. BB's combat is very satisfying, can build characters up quite differently, and combat can be quite brutal. Although, at the moment it only has a sandboxy campaign mode in which questing is pretty rudimentary (easy fedex/protect caravans between towns/scout lairs/destroy lairs) but I don't see these guys failing to deliver a great game. I think it's 20 dollars well spent but that's just my opinion.

Purchasing and playing now isn't going to spoil anything since the random sandbox is disconnected from the full campaign they are working on so it's not like an Underrail/AoD situation either.
 

Lucky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
672
April/May 2016 is the target. They intentionally made sure that they had more time than strictly necessary, so that they can be sure that they'll reach the deadline. Barring some sort of massive incident, I expect them to finish the game on time.

As for whether game is worth getting, let me quote my own post from earlier in the thread:

Game is ace. I got sold on the game when I got slaughtered by some bog-standard zombies in the demo for breaking formation. Fights can go badly rather quickly if you’re not careful.

Combat is similar to HoMM3, in that it takes place on a grid and is turn-based, with turn-order being decided by initiative. There are also zones of control; friendly fire by archers; fatigue, morale and armour mechanics, with an injury system on the way. The troops themselves are single characters that you level up, rather than troop stacks, and you don’t level up the ‘hero’. Same goes for gear. You don’t kit out a hero but your mercenaries and what gear they have decides what skills they have. That’s one of the things I really like about the game, since it incentivises switching between weapons as the situation demands it rather than always using the same things.

The overworld map is where you travel around in real-time (with pause, if needed). There’s a day/night cycle that affects travel speed and visibility, plus traveling takes up money (mercenary wages) and supplies. Running out can mean desertion. There’s no base like with HoMM3. You can recruit mercenaries in towns and get supplies, but those are locations to visit rather than bases you control. This also means that losing all your mercenaries in battle means game over (though you can try and flee during the battle). Towns are also where you get contracts, which are your main source of income, and can get destroyed by enemies. There’s also a lot of emphasis on exploration, with enemies and sites that aren’t towns being hidden from you until they come into sight. You can also get ambushed in this way.

Right now the story is fairly bare-bones, but the developers plan to expand on that with there being a Great Enemy for you to fight that grows in power as the game progresses. However, the emphasis is on replayability, so while there will always be a ‘Great Enemy’ that tries to sweep the land, which one of the factions it turns out to be will vary per playthrough as it’s the natural result of the interaction between the different factions. You can also knee-cap it by disrupting the factors that would allow it to gain power.

It's already worth the price, in my opinion. Not comparable at all to most Early Access games, which tend to barely be playable.
If you're still in doubt, just try out the demo. It gives you a decent idea of what the combat is like, though the Early Access version is obviously more advanced (world map, more enemies, levels, perks, weapons, quests, etc).
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
13,465
I think the game could benefit from including your own stronghold and crafting.

:troll:
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
10,055
I think the game could benefit from including your own stronghold and crafting.

:troll:

I know you're trolling but they have said they are not going to go down the stronghold route for actual campaign since they are aiming to emulate a mobile mercenary band but they did say they plan to introduce customization there outside of combat and it would behoove them to do so, party skills really improved the whole Mount and Blade series.

Crafting would be great we've all seen how fun compulsive gathering is in RK47's Inquisition and Witcher 3 LPs.

:troll:
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,460
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
This is easily in the top five EA releases of all time and will probably be goty 2016, so yes, go buy it.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,357
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I think the game could benefit from including your own stronghold and crafting.

:troll:

I know you're trolling but they have said they are not going to go down the stronghold route for actual campaign since they are aiming to emulate a mobile mercenary band but they did say they plan to introduce customization there outside of combat and it would behoove them to do so, party skills really improved the whole Mount and Blade series.

Crafting would be great we've all seen how fun compulsive gathering is in RK47's Inquisition and Witcher 3 LPs.

:troll:
Actually, MnB managed to do the transition from mercenary to landed lord quite well, so I have no doubt they could pull it out. Playing a band of mercenary sounds a bit disjointed from having to win the war for your side.
 

Eyestabber

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
4,733
Location
HUEland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Playing a band of mercenary sounds a bit disjointed from having to win the war for your side.

ja2-aim.jpg
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
2,964
I've read the description and I'm really looking forward to this! I understand it's in EA so I won't buy it just yet (just a personal rule), but I would LOVE to be able to purchase it via GOG.
Do you have a plan to make it possible in the future?
Yes, once the game is done we'll definitely get in contact with GOG. For now, like vonAchdorf said, pushing patches to just Steam is a lot easier for us than maintaining several different builds and potentially creating patches manually for them. Unless their policy has changed, GOG also doesn't feature games in Early Access.


was release question, found my answer up thread.

ignore this post.
 
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norolim

Arcane
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,012
Location
Pawland
Updated my ginormous list of must play RPGs.
 

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