Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Batman: Arkham Knight

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
24,992
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
So, is this game any fun yet?
TLDR gameplay is worse than the other games. Ain't no technical difficulty patch gonna fix that.

If you a Batman fanboy it's worth it at a discount. Technically it'll be fixed, just like Arkham City was delayed to be fixed (enough). The only difference is that they decided to release early but it's not like the timeline changes.

I'm only posting actually just because I'm playing the game (and I'm a Batfanboy). Call it OCD. Once I'm done with this game I'll probably be off this topic. Maybe run back to playing Spess Mehreen.
 

Echo Mirage

Arcane
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
1,572
Location
Tirra Lirra by the River
The Batgirl DLC was released today (minus the PC version) And clocks in at around a hour overall. It Looks pretty good from the videos appearing on Youtube. Much better than the trailers for it at least.
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
24,992
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
The Batgirl DLC was released today (minus the PC version) And clocks in at around a hour overall. It Looks pretty good from the videos appearing on Youtube. Much better than the trailers for it at least.
Lol now DLC I'm gonna wait for a sale, unless they do manage to patch the texture and memory issues.

BTW I got bugged that I can't activate the ending, because I got 13/14 side missions done before the game was over. Lololol I'll have to do all the Riddler stuff before I get an ending.

But I watched the ending videos and it's safe to say there's going to be DLC that is about what happens after the ending.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
DLC like this is always full of shitty tacked on side missions and never worth it... even at sale prices.
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
24,992
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
DLC like this is always full of shitty tacked on side missions and never worth it... even at sale prices.
When I think DLC sale I think $1 or less lol.

Anyways, the Arkham City DLC was pretty nice, Harley Quinn's Revenge. Partly because they added a new character with different moveset and whatnot.

Which reminds me... Dualplay in Arkham Knight is so shitty. Yet again it's because of encounters - there are barely any encounters, and I'm pretty sure they took away most of the side characters' gadgets. Oh yeah, and of course the encounters are so easy there's basically no reason to use the feature. And there's only one challenge with it :roll:
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
4,119
Location
Chicago, IL, Kwa
Anyways, the Arkham City DLC was pretty nice, Harley Quinn's Revenge. Partly because they added a new character with different moveset and whatnot.

Perhaps I'm misremembering things again, but wasn't Robin included as a playable character on challenge maps in the base AC collector's edition?

Regardless, I couldn't disagree more about Harley Quinn's Revenge. I find it to be one of the most shocking and blatant DLC cash-grabs in recent memory. It was a 1.5 hour "story" DLC marketed as a direct continuation of the events depicted AC. Well (apologies for the lack of a spoiler tag), it turns out the "story" amounts to:
A) Batman gets captured
B) Robin goes in to save Batman
C) Batman pouts and says "I was fine!"
D) Robin and Batman split up to stop Harley's plan (which I'm a little fuzzy on, but I think involved bombing her own base of operations?)

There are Adam West Batman episodes with more involving plots.

I would rant more about that shitty DLC, but I'm fairly drunk and tired.
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
24,992
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Anyways, the Arkham City DLC was pretty nice, Harley Quinn's Revenge. Partly because they added a new character with different moveset and whatnot.

Perhaps I'm misremembering things again, but wasn't Robin included as a playable character on challenge maps in the base AC collector's edition?

Regardless, I couldn't disagree more about Harley Quinn's Revenge. I find it to be one of the most shocking and blatant DLC cash-grabs in recent memory. It was a 1.5 hour "story" DLC marketed as a direct continuation of the events depicted AC. Well (apologies for the lack of a spoiler tag), it turns out the "story" amounts to:
A) Batman gets captured
B) Robin goes in to save Batman
C) Batman pouts and says "I was fine!"
D) Robin and Batman split up to stop Harley's plan (which I'm a little fuzzy on, but I think involved bombing her own base of operations?)

There are Adam West Batman episodes with more involving plots.

I would rant more about that shitty DLC, but I'm fairly drunk and tired.
I dunno, I don't remember.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,443
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Mangoose Opinion? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...-points/14309-Without-Robin-Batman-is-Nothing

Batman Needs Robin

Batman has a complex relationship with his allies. In the comics Batman has numerous crimfighting friends that are all grouped under the somewhat nebulous title of "Bat-family": Robin, Bat Girl Batwoman, Nightwing, and Catwoman are the big names everyone recognizes, but the full list of heroes is filled with interesting, funny, and obscure names. But even this list understates the complexity of the relationships. Apparently there have been five people operating under the name "Robin", five different Batgirls, plus some spinoff variant characters like Red Robin, Red Hood, and Spoiler.

943520.jpg


But in the movies and the videogames (we're just talking about Arkham here) it's not nearly so simple. Writers seem to prefer the loner take on Batman. From a storytelling perspective, this seems a little backwards. In an animated medium, we need other characters for Batman to talk to so he can explain what he's thinking and doing. The Arkham games handle this by having him call Alfred or Oracle once in a while and simply explain to them what he's planning, so that the person holding the controller knows what they're supposed to be trying to accomplish. But in comics we have narration boxes and thought bubbles that can tell us anything we need to know, without Batman needing to say a word.

I'm sure part of this is because Bat-family characters (and Robin in particular) do not have a good reputation among general audiences. People remember the cornball antics of 60's Batman live-action series, or they remember the disaster of Batman and Robin, and they assume that all stories with Bat-family characters will naturally be campy and cheap. They don't read comics and they have no idea how the team dynamic is "supposed" to work. They have no frame of reference, so they just assume Robin and friends are wrong for modern audiences. This line of thinking even applies to people choosing what sorts of Bat-products get made: Executives, publishers, and movie directors. And while we're at it, it also includes me from four years ago.

The first Arkham game seemed to follow this line of thinking. Robin doesn't appear in any form, and without any in-game cues to work with, I naturally just assumed this was a version of Batman's universe where Robin didn't exist. So I was really unhappy in Arkham City (the second game) when Robin entered the story out of nowhere and offered to help. I started shaking my head at the screen. I did not want this kid hanging around, getting in my way, and clogging up my Batman fantasy with goofy teen angst. I was relieved when Batman told Robin to go away and that he could handle things himself. It didn't make a lot of sense in the story (Batman really did need help, and there was no good reason to get rid of Robin) but I was glad to be rid of him because I assumed he'd ruin the tone of the story and get in the way of the brawling mechanics.

Then last month Batman: Arkham Knight opened my eyes to the truth: Robin wouldn't hinder the Arkham gameplay, he would perfect it.

943528.jpg


In Arkham Knight, there are two sub-plots in the game where you team up with allies. One has Batman paired with Catwoman, and the other teams him up with Nightwing. (Who is the original Robin, and a different person from the current Robin. It's complicated.) This is where the game really shines. Last month I ranted at how the Batmobile is an obnoxious and dissonant feature that smothers the core mechanics. Some people pointed out that, "This is the third game, and they needed to do something new." I agree, and I think these team fights should have been it. The whole game would have been much stronger if they swapped the two features and made the team fights part of the core game, and left the Batmobile in the optional sidequests.

Having a partner around gives Batman a sounding board without the need for him to constantly phone up Oracle and Alfred every couple of minutes, like a clingy kid calling his parents from camp. Instead, he can talk to someone who is directly involved with the fight, not someone on the other side of the city who can't even see what he's doing. The sidekick gets to crack some jokes at the expense of the bad guys, which is something Batman can't do since he's got that Bat-stick up his butt.

But most importantly: These team fights are delightful fun. It's the normal Arkham brawling mechanics with a twist: Once you defeat a few guys, you can do a team combo. Batman will throw a foe into the air and Nightwing will intercept the hapless goon and give him a pummeling. Then you seamlessly exit the maneuver in control of Nightwing. Fill up the special meter again and do another team takedown, and the same thing will happen again, ending with your control returning to Batman. The sidekick character (Nightwing or Catwoman) has their own set of moves and their own quirks that add another layer of variety to the fights.

The game even manages to work a bit of characterization to the fights. The heroes call out to each other during a team combo, and so we get some character banter mid-fight. Nightwing is always joking about Batman getting old, Catwoman is playfully sassy, and Batman is all business. This makes the game less stiff and modal. You're no longer switching between "talking mode" and "fighting mode". The two are blended together in a way that makes this feel like an action scene you might see in one of the animated Batman shows. The team fights in Arkham Knightfeel like the rough draft for a larger and more ambitious way to blend our combat with our storytelling.

Without spoiling the end of Arkham Knight: It's pretty clear that developer Rocksteady isn't going to continue with the current formula of Batman doing everything himself and leaving Robin behind to clean the Batcave. They've called Arkham Knight the end of their "Trilogy", which hints that whatever happens in the world of Bat-games, it's time for something new. I really hope that "something" is based around the team-ups we see in Arkham Knight. It's smart, it's fun, and it fits the source material a lot better than driving around Gotham in a tank.
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
24,992
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Infinitron A talking head on a commset takes less manhours to work on than cutscenes with an animated full body. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Though now I'm a little confused as to why WB allowed Rocksteady to spend so much time on the game (as in they had another company do Origins just to fill in the time gap between releases).
 

yes plz

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,159
Pathfinder: Wrath
The whole "Batman doesn't work without Robin!" crap is just objectively false. For starters it only ever seems to be said by people who seem to think they're somehow 'enlightened' when it comes to Batman and want to show how much more they know about the character and franchise than others (see: that fucking article, "They don't read comics and they have no idea how the team dynamic is "supposed" to work. They have no frame of reference, so they just assume Robin and friends are wrong for modern audiences. This line of thinking even applies to people choosing what sorts of Bat-products get made: Executives, publishers, and movie directors. And while we're at it, it also includes me from four years ago.").

Yes, the Bat-Family is an important part of the mythos and (like most things) when used well they can be a great part of a Batman story but for a character that's existed for almost a century, though, there's no single "right" way to tell stories with him. One of the very best comic runs for Batman was Alan Grant's roughly three year Detective Comics run, which barely featured any supporting characters (Gordon was the only one to be featured regularly and usually only for a few panels per issue) and instead just focused on Batman solving cases and punching people, essentially being an early comic form of Batman: The Animated Series.
 

Azalin

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
7,327
The whole "Batman doesn't work without Robin!" crap is just objectively false. For starters it only ever seems to be said by people who seem to think they're somehow 'enlightened' when it comes to Batman and want to show how much more they know about the character and franchise than others (see: that fucking article, "They don't read comics and they have no idea how the team dynamic is "supposed" to work. They have no frame of reference, so they just assume Robin and friends are wrong for modern audiences. This line of thinking even applies to people choosing what sorts of Bat-products get made: Executives, publishers, and movie directors. And while we're at it, it also includes me from four years ago.").

:hmmm:

Care to elaborate on that?
 

yes plz

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,159
Pathfinder: Wrath
The whole "Batman doesn't work without Robin!" crap is just objectively false. For starters it only ever seems to be said by people who seem to think they're somehow 'enlightened' when it comes to Batman and want to show how much more they know about the character and franchise than others (see: that fucking article, "They don't read comics and they have no idea how the team dynamic is "supposed" to work. They have no frame of reference, so they just assume Robin and friends are wrong for modern audiences. This line of thinking even applies to people choosing what sorts of Bat-products get made: Executives, publishers, and movie directors. And while we're at it, it also includes me from four years ago.").

:hmmm:

Care to elaborate on that?

????

That part was from the article Infinitron posted, hence the quotation marks.
 

Azalin

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
7,327
Oops sorry,guess I shouldn't be drunk when I browse the codex,nevermind,going back to drinking now
 
Last edited:

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
24,992
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
The main supporting character really is Alfred. That's one big thing I like from Morrison's run. He made Bruce realize that he was never alone. From the very start, when he thought he was a failure of a vigilante (in the very beginning when he wasn't even Batman, when the Bat first crashed throught he window)... Alfred was there.

Robin's just... a silver age thingie it seems like. But afterwords he did develop into something more. One thing being that it gave Bruce the feeling of having an actual family, of being a "father," in contrast to him being growing up an orphan. And of course what happened to Jason Todd.

Interesting thing about Robin is that he actually shines in the Titans, because he has that leadership capability he caught from Batman as well as being charismatic himself.

As a sidekick IMO he really isn't that great except as a plot point or two. Or just giving Batman someone to interact with on the job.
Oops sorry,guess I shouldn't be drunk when I browse the codex,nevermind,going back to drinking now
What? There is absolutely nothign wrong with being drunk on the codex.
 

yes plz

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,159
Pathfinder: Wrath
A Lonely Place of Dying makes the case that without Robin Batman becomes too obsessive and involved with his whole 'one man against all crime and corruption' stuff, leading him to become self-destructive, so he needs someone to reel him in and keep him grounded, and that he just needs someone to watch his back in general. The Bat-Family in general is important for stories like Knightfall and No Man's Land, where the idea is that Batman can fail and occasionally needs help, but in general I do prefer solo Batman stories, especially when they're the more self-contained crime ones.
 

Talby

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
5,510
Codex USB, 2014
I never liked Robin. It was cool how his only role in Arkham City is to show up and be told to fuck off by Batman.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
As Mangoose mentioned Robin is a very fine charachter on his own and able to show off his qualities. As a sidekick however, he's just.... there.
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
24,992
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Best Batman & Robin is Dick & Damian.

I guess what annoys me is the PLEASE HIT ME IN THE DARKNESS colors of the Robin suit. On the other hand I do get that without the contrast in colors, he'd probably look even more dull.

Understood it's capefaggotry, and I almost never give a shit, but my suspension of disbelief still goes "Eh wha?" every now and then.

Now I recently (finally) read "The Cult" and I liked how Robin skulked around in noir detective overalls. Maybe that's how it should go. Master of disguise, ridiculous combat acrobat. As I don't mind the costume colors in combat. And that would still maintain the contrast without being dumb in teh darkness.
A Lonely Place of Dying makes the case that without Robin Batman becomes too obsessive and involved with his whole 'one man against all crime and corruption' stuff, leading him to become self-destructive, so he needs someone to reel him in and keep him grounded, and that he just needs someone to watch his back in general. The Bat-Family in general is important for stories like Knightfall and No Man's Land, where the idea is that Batman can fail and occasionally needs help, but in general I do prefer solo Batman stories, especially when they're the more self-contained crime ones.
2865113-funny_batman_mind_blown_joker.jpg
 

AW8

Arcane
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,852
Location
North of Poland
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
http://steamcommunity.com/games/208650/announcements/detail/145589580833757497

Update on patch planned for release in August
18 JULY -GARY.LAKE-SCHAAL
As an update, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, Rocksteady and our partners are targeting an interim patch update for existing players to be released in August. This update will address many of the issues we listed in ourJune 27 update. We will provide additional details as we finalize that interim patch over the coming weeks.

We would like to thank you for your continued patience and invaluable feedback. We are continuing to monitor and listen for any additional issues and are driving towards a full update for everyone as quickly as we possibly can.

Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment

Fookin' August? Is someone hoggin' the Speed Force?
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
AAA Early Access!
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom