Game News Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Update #29: Combat Mechanics Overview

[Achiman]

Make Blobbers Great Again.

Build a wall against shit blobbers and make them pay for it.

 

[Lady_Error]

The fact that there are good blobbers coming out at all is a miracle.

 

[Grotesque]

this game needs lots of combat animations not to look cheap otherwise

 

[Excidium II]

All this talk about MMX is bringing back memories about the game. Dat combat doe.

Also reminds me of the shitty overworld, and how they said you couldn't walk through trees and stuff because it would look off in 3D.

The fact that there are good blobbers coming out at all is a miracle.

Which is odd if you ask me, it's not something that takes a lot of expertise to make satisfactory.

 

[Excidium II]

Also there is a decent amount of new blobbers, you just have to learn japanese.

 

[mutonizer]

Also there is a decent amount of new blobbers, you just have to learn japanese.

Now I know you're trolling, geeeebus.

 

[Excidium II]

trolling

Be less new.

 

[Xzylvador]

MMX was a glorified mobile game, and not a very good one at that.

It was glorified? I must've missed that.

 

[Zeriel]

I don't get all the mobile talk. It was only released on PC, and nothing about it screams "mobile" to me. It had a plethora of keybinds, good interface, etc. If you mean the game sucked, just say that. There's nothing about it that is mobile-esque, save maybe some idea of budget or aesthetics.

 

[you know what time it is]

Since when keybinds or UI make a game worthy of anything? It was simplistic, cheap and boring hence the constant mentions of mobile platform, cause that's where those qualities are usually present.

 

[undecaf]

MMXL certainly wasn't a shiny beacon of anything. But it was serviceable enough to carry itself through.

 

[Zeriel]

Since when keybinds or UI make a game worthy of anything? It was simplistic, cheap and boring hence the constant mentions of mobile platform, cause that's where those qualities are usually present.

"Mobile" is not a descriptor of quality--it can be a symptom, but it's not a direct correlation. When people say Shadowrun was a mobile game first, they were pointing to its shitty save and level design architecture, not its overall quality. That's what I'm getting at here. There's nothing about MMX that says "this was designed for mobile". I mean, if we're going to just call any game that seems low budget mobile, why aren't we calling Grimrock or Wasteland 2 mobile?

 

[Darkzone]

As i said before BTIV will be the best game from InXile, besides BT2005. (I still think that BTIV needs The Bard singing The Bard Song.)
I agree that parts of the UI look hideous, because they lack a certain coherence, but this is currently just a mockup.

 

[Llama-Yak Hybrid]

Why the fuck the warrior with dual blades has reach 2? Why the fuck some dude with a longbow needs to be able to hit something "4 squares away"...it's a fucking longbow. Ping pong bleed battles? Perfect combo? Why can't we have simple things that make some damn sense. Why does everything need to be become "the new and amazing funfair ride of the year!".

I guess the point is that they want to sell a blobber in at least 500k units. To make it they want to make the combat "cool", because blobber fans are even less numerous than isometric RPG fans.
Now the question is how will they deal with combat frequency. If it's all finely crafted with little to no random encounters such approach will result in good blobber that may be somewhat shit to replay unless there will be really lots of variety between party compositions. We'll see.

The worst possibility is of course that they'll make the combat both slow, input-heavy(both of which are a must if you want to make "tactical blobber") and it'll happen as often as in Wizardry 8.

 

[Zed]

I agree that parts of the UI look hideous, because they lack a certain coherence, but this is currently just a mockup.

just FYI this was said about WL2 for many iterations, and is being said for Numenera now as well.

 

[Andhaira]

Why this sudden hating on MMX? It was/is a fine, fine game. The only real issue with it was the intensive system issues/GPU heating issues, aside from that the game is sweet. Not much more you can ask for in a turn based blobber to be honest.

It's a tablet game, much like shadowrun. (which admittedly, got a little better with expansions)

No, it's not a tablet game by any stretch of the imagination. Mechanics wise it is actually deeper than any prior M&M RPG game. Yes the game world is smaller than M&M 6-8, but they did not have the budget to make such a huge world like that. MMX has flaws certainly, but it's still a fantastic blobber.

I really look forward to Bards Tale also, and hope it is even better than MMX. What worries me though is they are trying to reinvent the wheel, what with adding more complications in combat and the like. That's not a bad idea per se, but is reminding me of what WOTC tried to do with D&D4e. Instead of adding new features they should just make a polished turn based blobber, with interesting classes, spells, special abilities and powers for each class. No need to add complications like giving multiple tactical options per turn per character; it can be done well I suppose but they should not try it in the first game.

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah, I get nervous when people want to innovate in the blobber space. Doing old-school dungeon crawlers right is not easy. It's meat and potatoes, but it's meat and potatoes that is often fucked up. I'd feel a lot better about them being super creative if they released an arch-conservative BT reboot and then were trying to dial things up for the sequel. But Fargo's always got to chase those mainstream bucks, I guess.

 

[Andhaira]

But Fargo's always got to chase those mainstream bucks, I guess.

I don't think he wants mainstream bucks, I think he wants to innovate and modernize the blobber. Kind of like old school RPGs (tabletop) have had modernized mechanics; many worked (Pathfinder, wfrp2e, Shadow of the Demon Lord) and others crashed and burned. (D&D4e) Again, not a bad idea but possibly a bad idea for the very first game. As you said he really should focus on the meat and potatoes, but add in more player choices within that framework, like more classes, spells, a feat like system, etc rather than reinvent how combat works.

 

[Lord Azlan]

Enough of this story-fag renaissance with PoE and all that. I am getting on that horse but sometimes I still struggle with the concept that PC world is ideal medium to read a forest full of trees.

WL2 was very accessible and enjoyable - but struggled a bit with DoS.

The Mr Blobbies of this world also need some TLC. I really liked MMX - I thought it was a decent attempt. Small and sweet - I think they got the Blobworld systems right.

Then we had the sublime LoX - just loved those kebabs and stun v bleed options. Shurikens baby!

I don't really do this sort of thing - but inspired by Codexians to put my money where my mouth is - I heavily invested into BT4.

The enhanced trilogy is already in draft and what true bard could ever ask for more? In fact I reckon BT4 > Tides of Torment.

In truth BT + Wizzy + M&Ms will always be greater than Gates, Torments and Fallouts.

BT4 will prove it for sure!

 

[Zeriel]

But Fargo's always got to chase those mainstream bucks, I guess.

I don't think he wants mainstream bucks, I think he wants to innovate and modernize the blobber. Kind of like old school RPGs (tabletop) have had modernized mechanics; many worked (Pathfinder, wfrp2e, Shadow of the Demon Lord) and others crashed and burned. (D&D4e) Again, not a bad idea but possibly a bad idea for the very first game. As you said he really should focus on the meat and potatoes, but add in more player choices within that framework, like more classes, spells, a feat like system, etc rather than reinvent how combat works.

Yeah, but what is the impetus to "modernize"? The underlying motivation is always to get more money by broadening your audience. The idealistic point of view is that you can have your cake and eat it too by streamlining the game to appeal to more people without removing anything the old fans considered essential, but at the end of the day that's where that thought process comes from. There is, after all, a difference between modernizing and just putting in new mechanics because you think they'd be fun.

 

[Infinitron]

Substantive changes to the formula were inevitable because Grimrock/MMX sales would be a disappointment for inXile. If you recall, they want to try to create some crossover appeal with CCGs; I would expect battles to feel like "duels".

But I'm pretty sure whoever buys this is still going to be far from the "mainstream".

 

[you know what time it is]

Since when keybinds or UI make a game worthy of anything? It was simplistic, cheap and boring hence the constant mentions of mobile platform, cause that's where those qualities are usually present.

"Mobile" is not a descriptor of quality--it can be a symptom, but it's not a direct correlation. When people say Shadowrun was a mobile game first, they were pointing to its shitty save and level design architecture, not its overall quality. That's what I'm getting at here. There's nothing about MMX that says "this was designed for mobile". I mean, if we're going to just call any game that seems low budget mobile, why aren't we calling Grimrock or Wasteland 2 mobile?

Level design, combat design, everything design is extremely simple and straightforward as seen in mobile games. I always thought that WL2 had browser game level of quality when it came to skillchecks and opening/looting stuff. Mobile/tablet/browser are as good as any words to describe that whatever it's applied to can't be even called mediocre by PC standards (however low they might seem nowadays).

 

[Zeriel]

Wait, have we already gone to page 3 in a BT4 thread without flagellating ourselves over the misery of Fargo namedropping Hearthstone in relation to his hardcore blobber? It's just the Fargo Effect, or the InXile effect or whatever. It's why I was surprised when this update looked vaguely competent. They try so hard to make it sound like they're making Babby's First Hardcore RPG, then release games that are much more complicated than you'd expect based on their messaging.

This also looks like it will be the first InXile game that doesn't have completely terrible art. I wonder why--new hires, I guess, aren't most of the people working on this game in the new Louisiana studio?

Since when keybinds or UI make a game worthy of anything? It was simplistic, cheap and boring hence the constant mentions of mobile platform, cause that's where those qualities are usually present.

"Mobile" is not a descriptor of quality--it can be a symptom, but it's not a direct correlation. When people say Shadowrun was a mobile game first, they were pointing to its shitty save and level design architecture, not its overall quality. That's what I'm getting at here. There's nothing about MMX that says "this was designed for mobile". I mean, if we're going to just call any game that seems low budget mobile, why aren't we calling Grimrock or Wasteland 2 mobile?

Level design, combat design, everything design is extremely simple and straightforward as seen in mobile games. I always thought that WL2 had browser game level of quality when it came to skillchecks and opening/looting stuff. Mobile/tablet/browser are as good as any words to describe that whatever it's applied to can't be even called mediocre by PC standards (however low they might seem nowadays).

Level design I'll grant you, but combat design? Are you for real? The MMX thread often had people criticizing it for being too hardcore relative to previous Might & Magic games. It had a fuckton of combat options and a mobility aspect that didn't exist in a lot of M&M games.

 

[Darkzone]

I agree that parts of the UI look hideous, because they lack a certain coherence, but this is currently just a mockup.

just FYI this was said about WL2 for many iterations, and is being said for Numenera now as well.

Ok that is true, then let us hope that this is just a mockup.

Substantive changes to the formula were inevitable because Grimrock/MMX sales would be a disappointment for inXile. If you recall, they want to try to create some crossover appeal with CCGs; I would expect battles to feel like "duels".
But I'm pretty sure whoever buys this is still going to be far from the "mainstream".

I have a similar impression.

 

[Infinitron]

This also looks like it will be the first InXile game that doesn't have completely terrible art. I wonder why--new hires, I guess, aren't most of the people working on this game in the new Louisiana studio?

Same art director as Wasteland 2, Maxx(xxx) Kaufman.