Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear - Gameplay and Mechanics Thread (NO political crap!)

[Reapa]

I was reading the other thread in hope of finding an answer to the question why my mage is casting cure light wounds on other party members. It didn't take long to realize the thread had nothing to do with the game. it seems our conductors have become accustomed to these sjw and political correctness circlejerk discussions and no longer intervene. Please keep posting that crap in the other thread and discuss the game here.

 

[taxalot]

THANK GOD for this thread.

 

[Snorkack]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

 

[Doktor Best]

Its Adnd. Up until now good combat and exploration so far. The strong setting helps alot, writing is not always as bad as people make it, it has some good moments even. Tumblerina Scott dialogue stands out like a rusty nail once in a while which is kinda bothering though. I'd say the game is on Icewind Dale level of quality.


Anyone else got the problem of characters not following orders properly sometimes? I tell them to cast a spell and despite them being in range they stand around idling with still having the spell symbol on their portrait.

 

[Black]

I like how the thread with the political crap has 100+ pages

 

[Doktor Best]

It has Trannies in it. Codexians are drawn to it miles wide like moths to the light.

 

[Reapa]

it seems the AI overrides the actual abilities of the characters it governs. i haven"t played siege of dragon spear yet because i don't want to start a game with loot i haven't found myself or without loot i would have found myself. so either the ee is broken or the siege of dragonspear brakes the ee. it"d be nice if someone with some insight could comment on these bugs like if and when they plan to fix them since i'm getting sick of playing this broken shit and i understand i can't import from the original bg.

 

[ArchAngel]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

Do enemies in PoE use invisibility potions and then backstab your characters?
Are traps on top of enemies and if you move to melee to engage you set the trap? For instance web traps that if you get caught those enemies make a short work of you.
Archers behind locked door shooting you through windows?
Mages that start combat with sequencers and Contingencies?

SoD has all of this and more (on Insane difficulty at least).

 

[Ludo Lense]

How linear is the game?

 

[ArchAngel]

How linear is the game?

ToB level linear.
Or in more details, you travel with an army and each time you move there are multiple maps to explore and some dungeons.

 

[Parabalus]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

The game is currently unplayable because the difficulty shifts downwards every time you load, you can't just re-up it because it messes with the increased spawns. This could be worked around, but it also applies to the new Legacy of Bhaal, which you can't set in the options (think HoF in IWD, you get dumped to down to insane and screwed).

I played through the first area cluster before I rq because of the above and it seemed pretty good. The combat is pretty good, LoB had me reloading in the first dungeon and resorting to wand use, quests seemed interesting enough for me to give a fuck about completing them. Voiceovers should be insta muted tho.

What stood out to me were the items - there were a lot of really unique usable stuff for which I'm sucker for. I actually looked at the full list (offical forums), since I won't be playing till they patch it, they really made an effort in this regard.

it seems the AI overrides the actual abilities of the characters it governs. i haven"t played siege of dragon spear yet because i don't want to start a game with loot i haven't found myself or without loot i would have found myself. so either the ee is broken or the siege of dragonspear brakes the ee. it"d be nice if someone with some insight could comment on these bugs like if and when they plan to fix them since i'm getting sick of playing this broken shit and i understand i can't import from the original bg.

It's bugged like crap, dunno how this makes it past QA. Basically, after you finish your initial dungeon, the inventory of all your companions should go into your chests. Then, if they can join you in SoD they should keep their equipped items,so they'll have them when you recruit them, else they get dumped in the chest too. This second part doesn't work on both counts.

The "best" option I found is to import the pre-Sarevok save, because the "Final save" deletes your containers and if you kill Sarevok you can't set the difficulty to LoB. When you finish the tutorial dungeon put everything in a bag of holding and then when you recruit people dump all their gear on the ground.

The AI with the toggles seems like a step in the right direction, but then they can't add a simple "Use only healing spells only when out of combat" to it.

Do enemies in PoE use invisibility potions and then backstab your characters?
Are traps on top of enemies and if you move to melee to engage you set the trap? For instance web traps that if you get caught those enemies make a short work of you.
Archers behind locked door shooting you through windows?
Mages that start combat with sequencers and Contingencies?

SoD has all of this and more (on Insane difficulty at least).

This PoE comparison is disingenuous because it doesn't even HAVE invisibility like that, but rogues sure as hell will shadowstep to your backline on PoTD.

I agree though, SoD encounter design is pretty good.

How linear is the game?

Saying you are railroaded is probably an understatement, IWD2 seems like the proper comparison.

 

[CptMace]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

Do enemies in PoE use invisibility potions and then backstab your characters?
Are traps on top of enemies and if you move to melee to engage you set the trap? For instance web traps that if you get caught those enemies make a short work of you.
Archers behind locked door shooting you through windows?
Mages that start combat with sequencers and Contingencies?

SoD has all of this and more (on Insane difficulty at least).

No, Yes, Yes, No.
Although question 1 and 4 could be simpler :
1) does poe have invisibility = no (well, none that i recall).
2) does poe have sequencers (lol) = no.
ps: game has changed since 1.x. In a good way.

Not sure it makes SoD that great though, invisible backstabbers were in IWD.
Does it have ogre shamans casting earthquackes, venomous fogs and deadly bees ?

 

[ArchAngel]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

Do enemies in PoE use invisibility potions and then backstab your characters?
Are traps on top of enemies and if you move to melee to engage you set the trap? For instance web traps that if you get caught those enemies make a short work of you.
Archers behind locked door shooting you through windows?
Mages that start combat with sequencers and Contingencies?

SoD has all of this and more (on Insane difficulty at least).

No, Yes, Yes, No.
Although question 1 and 4 could be simpler :
1) does poe have invisibility = no (well, none that i recall).
2) does poe have sequencers (lol) = no.
ps: game has changed since 1.x. In a good way.

Not sure it makes SoD that great though, invisible backstabbers were in IWD.
Does it have ogre shamans casting earthquackes, venomous fogs and deadly bees ?

I have not seen these traps in base game, maybe expansion. Also I have not seen traps as deadly as web spells.
Also I have not seen in base game encounters where enemies fire behind closed doors.
It has Orc Shamans casting Bless, Call Lightning and removing debuffs from their allies.

The game is currently unplayable because the difficulty shifts downwards every time you load, you can't just re-up it because it messes with the increased spawns. This could be worked around, but it also applies to the new Legacy of Bhaal, which you can't set in the options (think HoF in IWD, you get dumped to down to insane and screwed).

I played through the first area cluster before I rq because of the above and it seemed pretty good. The combat is pretty good, LoB had me reloading in the first dungeon and resorting to wand use, quests seemed interesting enough for me to give a fuck about completing them. Voiceovers should be insta muted tho.

I didn't have problems with difficulty reverting to less than Insane.

This PoE comparison is disingenuous because it doesn't even HAVE invisibility like that, but rogues sure as hell will shadowstep to your backline on PoTD.

I agree though, SoD encounter design is pretty good.

Shadowstep is not the same. In SoD enemy will use a potion, go into backstab position, attack and use the potion again. in PoE they will shadowstep and then just fight like any other character.

 

[CptMace]

ps: game has changed since 1.x

It has Orc Shamans casting Bless, Call Lightning and removing debuffs from their allies.

You mean druids. I'm talking about a dude that knocks all your party on his ass, throws aoes on it and then proceeds to come at close range to fuck you up with a giant club. That's the new poe ogre shaman in a nutshell.

 

[Beastro]

I like how the thread with the political crap has 100+ pages

Because the threads more fun than the game~

I didn't have problems with difficulty reverting to less than Insane.

Have they done a quick patch since release?

Was happening to people on max difficulty, the one you can't change back to after the start of the game.

 

[LizardWizard]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

Do enemies in PoE use invisibility potions and then backstab your characters?
Are traps on top of enemies and if you move to melee to engage you set the trap? For instance web traps that if you get caught those enemies make a short work of you.
Archers behind locked door shooting you through windows?
Mages that start combat with sequencers and Contingencies?

SoD has all of this and more (on Insane difficulty at least).

Is your PoE PTSD really so bad that you're presenting things modders implemented better 15 years ago as some kind of Beamdog accomplishment?

 

[ArchAngel]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

Do enemies in PoE use invisibility potions and then backstab your characters?
Are traps on top of enemies and if you move to melee to engage you set the trap? For instance web traps that if you get caught those enemies make a short work of you.
Archers behind locked door shooting you through windows?
Mages that start combat with sequencers and Contingencies?

SoD has all of this and more (on Insane difficulty at least).

Is your PoE PTSD really so bad that you're presenting things modders implemented better 15 years ago as some kind of Beamdog accomplishment?

Well aVENGER should defend himself vs these attacks... I think he said he worked on encounter designs.

 

[GrainWetski]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

Do enemies in PoE use invisibility potions and then backstab your characters?
Are traps on top of enemies and if you move to melee to engage you set the trap? For instance web traps that if you get caught those enemies make a short work of you.
Archers behind locked door shooting you through windows?
Mages that start combat with sequencers and Contingencies?

SoD has all of this and more (on Insane difficulty at least).

Is your PoE PTSD really so bad that you're presenting things modders implemented better 15 years ago as some kind of Beamdog accomplishment?

Read the last few pages of this thread: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-baldurs-gate-series-thread.80753/page-67

I'm pretty sure he just wants a job at Beamdog.

 

[Parabalus]

I have not seen these traps in base game, maybe expansion. Also I have not seen traps as deadly as web spells.

Web spells - the thing you counter by equipping a ring or a sword for half a second? Are you even trying?

Shadowstep is not the same. In SoD enemy will use a potion, go into backstab position, attack and use the potion again. in PoE they will shadowstep and then just fight like any other character.

They did that in vanilla BG2 too, it's nothing new. PoE rogues actually have the same pattern of one-hitting your backline, except you can't just stoneskin and laugh at them.

Read the last few pages of this thread: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-baldurs-gate-series-thread.80753/page-67

I'm pretty sure he just wants a job at Beamdog.

I actually liked the EEs and even said a kind word or two about them in that thread, but this guy just seems like shill.

Is your PoE PTSD really so bad that you're presenting things modders implemented better 15 years ago as some kind of Beamdog accomplishment?

This seems to be a pretty widespread problem on the Codex, you'd think Sawyer personally raped each and every poster while whispering "Shhh...this is what balance feels like.".

Because the threads more fun than the game~



Have they done a quick patch since release?

Was happening to people on max difficulty, the one you can't change back to after the start of the game.

Still happening to me - too bad they are too busy dealing with political fallout instead of fixing game-breaking bugs.

Well aVENGER should defend himself vs these attacks... I think he said he worked on encounter designs.

He's probably in his bunker waiting for things to die down. I hope he brought a lot of food.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Because the threads more fun than the game~



Have they done a quick patch since release?

Was happening to people on max difficulty, the one you can't change back to after the start of the game.

Still happening to me - too bad they are too busy dealing with political fallout instead of fixing game-breaking bugs.

Is that thing even worth it? I liked the idea of a challenge mode that binds you for the rest of your playthrough, but Legacy of Bhaal just seems way too cheesy. Saw a guy running through it and he was basically forced to abuse backstabbing and area transitions.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

The game is currently unplayable because the difficulty shifts downwards every time you load, you can't just re-up it because it messes with the increased spawns.

This might've been patched, I saw other reports, but haven't run into it yet.

 

[Reapa]

So, apart from the subpar writing, does SoD actually offer worthwile gameplay elements, i.e. interesting encounter or level design?

it seems the AI overrides the actual abilities of the characters it governs. i haven"t played siege of dragon spear yet because i don't want to start a game with loot i haven't found myself or without loot i would have found myself. so either the ee is broken or the siege of dragonspear brakes the ee. it"d be nice if someone with some insight could comment on these bugs like if and when they plan to fix them since i'm getting sick of playing this broken shit and i understand i can't import from the original bg.

It's bugged like crap, dunno how this makes it past QA. Basically, after you finish your initial dungeon, the inventory of all your companions should go into your chests. Then, if they can join you in SoD they should keep their equipped items,so they'll have them when you recruit them, else they get dumped in the chest too. This second part doesn't work on both counts.

The "best" option I found is to import the pre-Sarevok save, because the "Final save" deletes your containers and if you kill Sarevok you can't set the difficulty to LoB. When you finish the tutorial dungeon put everything in a bag of holding and then when you recruit people dump all their gear on the ground.

The AI with the toggles seems like a step in the right direction, but then they can't add a simple "Use only healing spells only when out of combat" to it.

you need to read the op. It's my fucking MAGE that casts cure light wounds. this is not a minor AI glitch, it's a fucking disaster. Mages can't cure light wounds!!!

 

[Reinhardt]

Mages can't cure light wounds!!!

Even Bhaalspawns?

 

[Gay-Lussac]

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Bhaalspawn_abilities

 

[Rivmusique]

Crossposting:

Planned on reading this thread when I was done with my first playthrough, still back on page 23 though. Damn, this shit is HOT!

Oh well, quick thoughts:

Spoiler

Played on insane-with-no-damage-increase, chaotic-neutral fighter/thief that was created just for SoD. You start with 64 000 xp, totsc cap was 161 000. You also start with pretty shitty items, If I'd have imported I'd have been packing lots of wands and potions. And the neutral party starter party was not to my liking, 2 casters, Neera and Jaheira. I was going to go mage/thief, wished I had.

Enjoyed it a fair bit. The AI is much better than any of the vanilla IE games, ranged try to run from melee, they switch targets to lower AC members if they're within range, they use potions well and they focus fire the shit out of anyone who gets Held/stunned/unconscious (this is the way to go if they're trying to beat the player, but SCS always had this: "Enemies above a certain minimum intelligence will usually prioritise opponents who are not stunned, held or otherwise helpless. From their point of view, they're fighting to win, and if they kill all non-helpless opponents they can finish off the helpless ones at their leisure. (They will, however, finish off nearby vulnerable opponents in preference to chasing up distant ones.)" which makes it more fun in my opinion, a long disable on the PC is a game over screen in SoD). They seem to love that they can get a lot of characters on screen, every group is ~10+ enemies, most of which have decent accuracy, low health, and annoying on-hit effects or powerful CC, so bring your fireballs/oils/wands .

The way you move about the game world isn't very BG-y in my mine though. Where BG stands apart from the other IE games is the huge amount of optional-areas/quests, a fair few of which it's not the best idea to tackle the moment you hear about them/can get to them. This doesn't have that at all. Each chapter has a set of maps you can go between with a bunch of side quests within them. You do the quests as you receive them, eventually complete the chapter quest, those maps can no longer be traveled too, you now have a new set of maps for the next chapter. More IWD than BG in my opinion.

Was not a fan of the writing for the most part. Main quest and all involved were interesting enough, perhaps not Skie, as she never leaves the "annoying" phase when she probably should have to give her ending weight (just have her do something useful in the siege, maybe call back to the conversations you've had with her). The Baldur's Gate portion near the start is quite bad though, fetch quests everywhere. And the stuff that's relevant to BG2 beginning isn't particularly interesting, they could have dropped that BG baggage and had a neat dnd adventure about battling a misguided crusade (then they could have done stuff like have a variety of endings, as they wouldn't have to be in a state where BG2 makes sense). In fact, what you know at the point of the final area makes you (a bhaalspawn) being involved incredibly stupid, should just leave the party and send the other five to end it, less trouble. As for side quests, I especially enjoyed the Lich dungeon, Cyric Temple (semi-side area, you have to go here but you don't have to do the more interesting fights/finish it), vampire hunters, ghost dragon shit and fully scouting dragonspear (I think this was optional, felt like I could have gone back earlier than I did). A lot of the dialogues suck though. Constant attempts at humour (the "stoner" in Baldur's Gate in the beginning is standout horrible, a long back and forth and he was voiced. Almost put my head through the desk) both from your dialogue options (shows the superiority of full dialogues being shown to the player, the type of responses I see and don't click remind me of nonsense my character often ends up saying in dialogue wheel games) and NPCs. This was in the old BGs as well I suppose, but it was often just an NPC that blurted shit at you then you walked away. Here, it's usually with quest givers and during an actual conversation with them. Clumsy exposition dumbs abound as well. Finally, you often (optionally, I think) find yourself infiltrating the crusade (the enemy) camps and it's extremely poorly done. At the beginning of the game it's established they have pictures of you and your name, yet for these bits you just walk in and say "I'm here to join" or "I'm with you guys, I'm new" and in you go (probably based on charisma, don't know). You can even give your name sometimes (worse, it's often the only reasonable choice, other than "You're dead FIGHT!") and that leads to some "amusing" dialogue like "OH WOW THAT'S SO WEIRD JUST LIKE THE GUY WE'RE LOOKING FOR WAT A COINCIDENCE HAHA". Fucking hell. Could have thrown in some magic disguise shit for these moments at least.

Companions I ran with were: Minsc, Dynaheir, Goblin shaman, Corwin, Glint. I don't like Minsc, but I wanted a good mage and his charge is the only one and they come together. Also, his 2 stars in longbow and 2h swords is to my liking. The pair of them have a quest involving another witch/beserker duo, but with them, get this, THE WITCH IS THE SCATTERBRAIN AND THE FIGHTER IS SENSIBLE HAHAHA! I liked the Goblin a fair bit, she seems old and bitter and her humour, when it shows, is dry. I did the Corwin romance, pretty shit just like the BG2 ones, declarations of love/attraction seemingly from nowhere. She's alright though, dedicated soldier type, her dialogues usually short and to the point. Except when it gets around to her child, then she goes into long rants on the troubles that come with being an absentee mother or something. There's also this one moment where she brings up kids ("do you have kids?"), you answer, she starts talking about hers, you comment, she says angrily for some reason and says something like "How did we even get on to this?" which made me laugh a lot. Glint is meant to be scatter-brain-funny, Minsc/Jan-y, I don't really like it. I called him my right-hand gnome at some point then he got upset that I "looking at other people" and I had to give him a speech about how I can't commit to just him , I completely missed that he wanted to bang somehow.

What is quite cool is the constant references to your race/class/party members in dialogues/quest solutions. I think IWD2 is the only IE game that really did this to this extent before. It's quite neat that my fighter/thief could help train some soldiers by noticing one wasn't great in a straight fight, so she could focus on dodging behind them and backstabbing, or using the goblin shaman to calm/talk with spirits. There's also multiple solutions to a lot of quests, something that wasn't really present in the old BGs. Here, you can often (seemingly), say, side with the vampire/lich and kill his enemies for alternate rewards and a rep drop. This is also useful as it would allow Evil parties (where the NPCs leave if your rep is too high) to function without resorting to senselessly slaying a random innocent.


Bugs I encountered:

Neera (I've not played with EE before, I hate this person. Minsc is definitely a developer favourite, this "kooky" shit is everywhere) had a quest to make a potion, the first four(?) updated my journal each time, but the final did not and every time I talked with her she acted like there were still ingredients to turn in. Quest remained unfinished.

I used the "talk to" command to try to talk to party members every so often. This sometimes led to them repeating old conversations, or saying something that seemed inappropriate for the area (the goblin said something like "they look like goblin work, these traps are deadly" right after I recruited her).

In the Boareskyr Bridge chapter ending there's a variety ways to handle the situation, one of which seems to be report back to camp and march to battle with them. The woman in camp tells me to report to the leader of the camp (Duncan?) but he wasn't there. Forced to do one of the other solutions, then the camp people just turned up in the battle.

There's a bit where a guy repairs some boots of speed, you use them, take damage (from falling over? Wasn't clear) and then return to him to ask for a refund (or not). Journal says the boots are now useless IIRC, but mine still worked and I never took damage again.

CTDs. The UI would disappear, the GAME OVER cutscene would play, the LOAD QUIT popup would appear, then CTD. Happened maybe four times.

There was a clumsy link to the quite dull IWD main antagonist. This has to be a bug, because why the fuck would someone pick this guy of all the options, jesus fucking christ. His skills include narrating and absolutely nothing else.

If you like IE combat at all, I'd recommend this game. Never would on the basis of interesting story/writing though, but I'd have said the same about both old BGs.

So BG3 is the next step? I hope they don't, just leave the Bhaalspawn, it's over, tale told. I wouldn't mind more IE stuff though, especially if they continue improving the AI.

Oh I forgot, what is up with that white fog that just rolls over the screen every now and then? It seems to be on any map, and it just obscures you're view of the battlefield at random. Is it meant to only appear in the Fog of War? Because it's fucking annoying.

I had heard about that difficulty reduction bug, so I kept checking nearly every time I loaded a save. Didn't drop down once with the GoG version, Insane the whole time.