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Dorateen

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I haven't played any of the "enhanced" re-makes. But I finally acquired Siege of Dragonspear a couple of weeks ago. The beginning is slow, and I had to wade through some atrocious writing. Once reaching Coast Way Crossing, however, the adventure picks up and it's pretty good.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Messages
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I thought the Dwarves of Dumathoin quest/dungeon was one of Siege's highlights. The campaign as its ups and downs, but overall it's passable. Btw Dorateen, I covered some of your content in this post. Might bring back some fond memories of the NWN2 community for you.
 

imweasel

Guest
I haven't played any of the "enhanced" re-makes. But I finally acquired Siege of Dragonspear a couple of weeks ago. The beginning is slow, and I had to wade through some atrocious writing. Once reaching Coast Way Crossing, however, the adventure picks up and it's pretty good.
It is pretty good despite the SJW garbage.
 

santino27

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I haven't finished it yet, but while the writing and plot kind of suck, and I don't like their treatment of existing characters, some of the areas are good, items are interesting, and encounters I've had so far have been decent.

Honestly, if it had been its own game rather than Beamdog trying to add content between BG/BG2 (with their terrible takes on existing NPCs), I'd have had far fewer issues with it (again, taking into account I'm not done)
 

Dorateen

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The Crystal Mist Mountains
I thought the Dwarves of Dumathoin quest/dungeon was one of Siege's highlights. The campaign as its ups and downs, but overall it's passable. Btw Dorateen, I covered some of your content in this post. Might bring back some fond memories of the NWN2 community for you.

Indeed, I was impressed with the Dwarves of Dumathoin. I've played a follower of Dumathoin ever since Gygax outlined the great dwarven pantheon in Unearthed Arcana more than thirty years ago. This dungeon and the backstory was accurate and well-designed. It's the first reference to the Keeper of Secrets Under the Mountain in an official computer role-playing game since Gateway to the Savage Frontier.

For the record, I really don't care about beamdog's baggage or how they might have butchered the older games. I'll judge the expansion as I go through it. Yesterday I fought a mindflayer led Underdark party. That's just solid Dungeons & Dragons stuff right there. I'm also running a custom party, which means I get to avoid a lot of the narrative nonsense.

Thanks for the write up about the SOZ project. I had forgotten about that!
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
I thought the Dwarves of Dumathoin quest/dungeon was one of Siege's highlights. The campaign as its ups and downs, but overall it's passable. Btw Dorateen, I covered some of your content in this post. Might bring back some fond memories of the NWN2 community for you.
I liked that dungeon too and I tought they were much better at encounter design than Obsidian for example (pretty much a retarded monkey can be better than Obsidian designers on encounter design though). Problem is that while as hard you try to ignore that horrible main storyline it just insist on shoving itself on your face, it is no coincidence that the best content was side content that has little to do with SJW Mary Sue lady and her crusade. However, the feeling of amateurish game making is everywhere so it feels like a kinda of a glorified mod including the obligatory fanfiction plotline.

If they made a side adventure with no pretension of continuation and made a simpler storyline like, "you need to go kill that dragon over there for profit", for example, more suited to their lack of skill on writing and you just had fun dungeon crawling and you killing stuff from start to finish, it would be a much more enjoyable game. You just waste too much time with garbage to get to the good bits.
 

ArchAngel

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Messages
20,020
I am still stuck in some caves with a ghost dragon that gave me a quest. I got bored there and still have not come back to finish it :(
And I really really love BG games, even enhanced versions :(
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://blog.beamdog.com/2016/12/collectors-edition-update-4.html

Collector's Edition Update 4



Current Status of the Collector's Edition

Production on the Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear Collector's Edition is finished! The dice and maps have been completed by our production partner overseas.

Today a cargo plane laden with magically sealed shipping crates is hurtling through the skies of the Pacific. In it, klaxons blare and warning lights blink from every direction as brave men and women race to and fro. The captain screams over the whine of engines pushed beyond their limits: "We must deliver these maps and dice to Beamdog's distributor!"

Meanwhile, at an airport on the west coast of the United States, workers cast lots to determine who will have the honor of unloading the plane when it lands. Tears well in the eyes of those that are eliminated.

Once the plane arrives and is checked over for itinerant snakes, the containers will be unloaded and we can begin the next phase of this project. Each phase will take some time to complete, but here's where we stand:
  1. 4YvmJ3OM7L_MQJHpkfJqOMdM_tl2K5O2dz6K7PLqCX2TlKk1pVq0Uo4Ny6Bopw_j5TkGGto_4RfV-sI19F32C5nlh041Lh-fnm8Y1UULQ8hStxN7_R0T5IL9xNuoU95cGhmcNZNQAzJ6kDp-u84CDsFr_yzJm5VbL496YqArZU1Gt6e7ZBiKN8BgSJty1viW9ozzG2A=s0-d-e1-ft
    Construction: Complete!
  2. Shipping: Pending!
  3. Customs
  4. Assembly
  5. Delivery! To you, the person reading this!
Phase 4 will take the longest, but once it gets started we can announce shipping dates.

We're very excited about reaching the final steps of this process and can't wait for you to see the finished product. If you have any other questions about your order, we're happy to help you out through support@beamdog.com.
 

CreamyBlood

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Joined
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Messages
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(illithilich).

What a great name, just rolls off the tongue. I want to say it to the shop keeper when I go get smokes, or pick up some beer. Illithilich!

In all my decades of playing DnD and computer games I didn't even know it was a thing. Never met one, hope I never do.
 

santino27

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
http://blog.beamdog.com/2016/12/collectors-edition-update-4.html

Collector's Edition Update 4

Phase 4 will take the longest, but once it gets started we can announce shipping dates.

We're very excited about reaching the final steps of this process and can't wait for you to see the finished product. If you have any other questions about your order, we're happy to help you out through support@beamdog.com.

A Collector's edition shipping a year after the game's release.. that's some quality project management there.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,006
Pathfinder: Wrath
That's just what I was going to say. Are there even people who are still interested in that edition? I would've sunk myself into depression and depravity by now if I had had the poor judgement to order that thing.
 

Space Insect

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Messages
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Location
Shaggai
What a great name, just rolls off the tongue. I want to say it to the shop keeper when I go get smokes, or pick up some beer. Illithilich!

In all my decades of playing DnD and computer games I didn't even know it was a thing. Never met one, hope I never do.
I assume it's a mind flayer lich? If so, it makes sense that you've never heard of it since the proper term is alhoon.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,006
Pathfinder: Wrath
I've always assumed that an illithilich is a synonym of alhoon, illithilich is a stupid name, it almost sounds like a tautology.
 

CreamyBlood

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,392
We'll go with you. 'Alhoon' doesn't sound like some kind of mutant dog/cat or anything and 'Illithilich' is obviously stupid and redundant. But in my ADnD ed1 days, our party always got wiped by around level ten and it was rare (if ever) that we ever even saw a Mindflayer. I suppose there are some 'alhoons' that I fought in a cRPG at some time but I don't remember it.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
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Messages
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I liked that dungeon too and I tought they were much better at encounter design than Obsidian for example (pretty much a retarded monkey can be better than Obsidian designers on encounter design though).

You can thank veteran IE modder aVENGER for that. The general scripting and combat encounters are unarguably solid, as observed in the very first post of my walkthrough. Itemization was probably also drafted by aVENGER, since it treads the line between BG and BG2 very well. The waylays are also notable in that they offer more than just crap to kill. But yeah, I've been a critic of the writing on the Codex, on my blog and on the Beamdog forums.

it is no coincidence that the best content was side content that has little to do with SJW Mary Sue lady and her crusade

There are plot-critical phases of the campaign that would not look out of place in pre-Beamdog IWD and BG series'. See Bridgefort Besieged for an example, which I have often cited as a highlight along with Dumathoin.

How do I know when content is solid? When it's got a layered depth to it and can be conveyed like I did in my walkthrough. There is more shit going on, more to consider and relay, in that single halfway-mark siege than in four posts of my Tyranny walkthrough.

Check out the pathetic siege that Tyranny served up at Vendrien's Well. Basically fuck all going on, not a single big battle. It's all just implied. And there is no choice as to how to approach it. Player is led by the nose.
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Not that it matters but if you use the tougher spawns option in SCS the Underdark Illitihid city and the Sewer Base in Athkalta have a bunch of alhoons.

Well yeah, SCS changes things. But they don't have a phylactery like the one in SDV. That's what I liked about Siege's Coldhearth lich, too. BG2 liches didn't have soul housings. Plus a nice touch with the decoy phylacteries and shattering them transferring their adorned gems to your inventory.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
That's just what I was going to say. Are there even people who are still interested in that edition? I would've sunk myself into depression and depravity by now if I had had the poor judgement to order that thing.

It's just a throwback to the Deluxe Editions for the original BGs. Some people at Beamdog may be living in the 90s still... while others are more "up with the times" (y'know what I mean).
 

santino27

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Messages
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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
That's just what I was going to say. Are there even people who are still interested in that edition? I would've sunk myself into depression and depravity by now if I had had the poor judgement to order that thing.

It's just a throwback to the Deluxe Editions for the original BGs. Some people at Beamdog may be living in the 90s still... while others are more "up with the times" (y'know what I mean).

I don't think anyone is questioning WHY they made a collector's edition. It's more a commentary on the fact that their (not super well received) game came out in March and they still haven't released said collector's edition.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Better late than never: http://www.gamebanshee.com/reviews/118225-baldur-s-gate-siege-of-dragonspear-review/all-pages.html

Introduction

A funny thing happened on my way to reviewing Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear. When I picked the game up, I realized that I hadn't played either of the original Baldur's Gate games in about 15 years. Since Siege of Dragonspear is supposed to be the bridge between the two, I decided that I'd play Baldur's Gate first so I could get reacquainted with the franchise. But then I was talking to our site admin, and he mentioned that our Baldur's Gate subsite was one of our oldest, and that it could use some updating.

No problem, I thought. I can update the subsite as I play the game. But I have a mental problem, so to speak. My brain translates "update" into "re-write," and so what should have been a simple(ish) procedure took months. As a result, when I was finally ready to play Siege of Dragonspear, I was so far past the release date that I figured I might as well write our walkthrough for it at the same time, which is more efficient for me, but which added even more months to the delay of the review.

And so here we are eight months later. The good news is that while I was working my way towards Siege of Dragonspear, a lot of its problems got fixed, and all of the dialogue that offended everybody got removed, and so what I'm reviewing here could be considered the final product rather than the initial release that everybody else looked at. The bad news, of course, is that people have probably already made up their mind about the game. But let's ignore the bad news. It's Christmastime after all, a time of hope and renewal.

Just in case you haven't been following Siege of Dragonspear, it's a role-playing game from Beamdog, which is probably best known as the developer behind the Enhanced Editions of Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, and Icewind Dale. Siege of Dragonspear is their first stand-alone project, and it purports to explain how your party went from defeating Sarevok at the end of Baldur's Gate to being locked up and tortured in Jon Irenicus' prison at the start of Baldur's Gate II. Siege of Dragonspear officially is an expansion pack (since it requires the Baldur's Gate EE to play), but it is lengthy enough that you can also just consider it to be a new game in the franchise.

Characters

To create a character for Siege of Dragonspear, you have three basic paths that you can follow. You can use any saved game from the Baldur's Gate EE to import your character; if you're playing the Baldur's Gate EE, then after killing Sarevok at the end, Siege of Dragonspear will automatically start up and import your character for you; or you can create a new character, which will get advanced to around level 7. Obviously, the best option is to import. Your character will have better stats (because of the manuals from Baldur's Gate), be a higher level, and have better equipment. But you'll earn plenty of experience and find lots of high level loot in Siege of Dragonspear, so even if you start out a little bit gimped, it shouldn't be a problem by the end.

Siege of Dragonspear uses the same character creation system as the Baldur's Gate EE, so if you have to create your character, it shouldn't be too complicated. You get to choose one of seven races, including human, elf, dwarf, and half-orc. You get to choose one of 11 classes (or one of the 37 kits based on those classes), including paladin, mage, thief, and shaman. You get to select weapon proficiencies and perhaps skills. And you get to roll your attributes until you get a set that you like. Nicely, the game allows you to save one set of attributes, so if you roll a good set then you can try beating it for a while, and if that doesn't work, fall back to it.

Along with your character, you can also work with up to five companions. Unfortunately, this is an area where Beamdog made some poor decisions. The original Baldur's Gate had 25 companions, and Beamdog added four more for the EE, giving 29 total. But Siege of Dragonspear only has 15 companions total: four new ones, the four from the EE, and a mere seven from the original game. For most games, 15 companions is plenty, but Siege of Dragonspear uses the same alignment system as the Infinity Engine games, where evil companions don't like working with good groups, and good and neutral companions don't like working with evil groups. So that means your choices are limited, especially if you're evil, and you might get stuck with an odd group. As an example, with my evil party I had to use the cleric Viconia (with her 8 constitution) as one of my tanks, just because she was one of the few companions available to me who could wear heavy armor. I also had to use a neutral companion, who at random times decided to leave my party, which wasn't a lot of fun.

Another imperfect decision by Beamdog is how they determined the statistics of the companions you meet. Basically, they decided that companions should have whatever stats they had in the saved game that you imported. That works just fine for the companions that you used, but poorly otherwise, which is a problem because half the companions didn't make the cut, and so it's not likely you're going to get to use the same party in Siege of Dragonspear that you used in the Baldur's Gate EE. As an example, when I played my good party in the EE, I briefly added Dynaheir while recruiting Minsc. So when I had to use Dynaheir in Siege of Dragonspear because she was the only mage available early in the game, she was only level 3 with no equipment, and she was barely any help at all. Yay. I have no idea why Beamdog didn't just advance all of the companions to the main character's experience level to prevent obvious problems like the one I just described. It also seemed pretty random whether companions kept their equipment from the saved game, or had (halfway decent) replacement equipment, or had no equipment at all, and so that didn't work out great, either.

But in better news, almost all of the companions get a quest, and they add dialogue all throughout the campaign, so they're not just automatons following you around. Plus, all of the voice actors for the companions came back to reprise their roles, so everybody sounds like they're supposed to, and you get to hear new dialogue from the likes of Minsc, Khalid, Edwin, and Viconia. Imoen is also around, but she's just an NPC while she trains to become a mage (a nod to all of you dual classers out there). So in all, the companions work out. It's just that they easily could have worked out better.


Gameplay Mechanics

Siege of Dragonspear uses the same engine as Beamdog's Enhanced Editions, which means that everything is in 2D and you get an isometric view of your surroundings. All commands can be controlled via the mouse. You click where you want your party to move, and you click on who (or what) you want to attack or otherwise interact with. Characters also get a hotkey bar, making it easier to trigger their quick items and abilities, but sadly it can't be configured, and it's sort of iffy for some of the class combinations (like for the new companion Glint, who is a cleric / thief).

Combat is played out in real time, but you can pause the game at any time to issue commands. You can also set up some auto-pause conditions, like pausing whenever a trap or enemy is spotted. Basic fighters and rangers don't have much in the way of combat skills, but there are plenty of spells, and setting up your clerics and mages correctly is one of the keys to winning the tougher battles. Characters can be healed by spells or by resting. Spells must be memorized by resting, which means you only have a limited arsenal for each fight, and you have to think about when and where to use your best spells. But there isn't a time limit for the campaign, and there aren't many places where you aren't allowed to rest.

Each creature you kill grants some experience, which is split evenly by your party. The experience cap was increased from 161,000 to 500,000, so you can gain a couple of levels while playing. Some creatures also drop equipment, but since Siege of Dragonspear is a Dungeons & Dragons game, a lot of it is of the unexciting +1 and +2 variety. Unique, named items are few and far between.

Campaign

When the game opens up, you learn that somebody named Caelar Argent has started a crusade to free the souls of the people captured by demons during the Dragonspear Wars. This sounds noble, but the crusade is heavily into the ends justifying the means, and they don't care who they trample on as long as they get closer to what they want. You become aware of the problem when refugees start pouring into Baldur's Gate while fleeing from the crusade, and then when Caelar mysteriously sends assassins to ambush you, you decide to get involved. There are also whispers that maybe Caelar is a Bhaalspawn, which gives you extra incentive.

Sadly, while the premise seems fine, it's also about 90% of the story. You never learn much more about Caelar, or about the Dragonspear Wars, or about the crusade. You just set off with a coalition of forces from Daggerford, Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep to confront Caelar, and this trip takes up the majority of the game. I've mentioned in other reviews that I much prefer my RPG campaigns to be novels rather than anthologies, but Siege of Dragonspear is heavily into the latter category. It's basically a road movie with generic fantasy encounters.

Luckily, the individual parts of the campaign work out reasonably well. There are over a dozen major map areas to explore (making Siege of Dragonspear roughly twice as large as Tales of the Sword Coast), the dialogue is well-written and frequently voice acted, and the quests have some heft to them and usually give you two or more ways to complete them. There are also some tough fights to deal with, including one variation of the final boss battle that I worked on for a couple of hours and couldn't complete -- even when cheating. Siege of Dragonspear is definitely more challenging than Baldur's Gate.

If I were to use one word to describe the Siege of Dragonspear campaign, I might select "competent" or "functional" or maybe even "good," but I'd stop well short of "exciting," "memorable," or "great." Everything is playable, and everything works... but it's fine, with both the good and bad connotations of the word intended. Beamdog probably would have been better off not trying to tie their game to the Baldur's Gate franchise, especially since it's a major whiff in its stated purpose of bridging the gap between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II. Outside of some brief and cryptic cameos by Jon Irenicus and some hand-waving at the end, Siege of Dragonspear could have taken place at any time in any game universe. The whole Caelar business doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Conclusion

I didn't love Siege of Dragonspear, but I didn't hate it, either. I played through the campaign twice, once with a good party and once with an evil party, and I enjoyed it well enough both times. It took me well over 60 hours to complete the two playthroughs, and that's not bad for a $20 price tag. So if you liked the Infinity Engine games and you want to try something new, then Siege of Dragonspear is a worthwhile purchase. Just try to keep your expectations tempered, as Beamdog isn't quite in the same class as old BioWare.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
97,461
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://blog.beamdog.com/2017/01/collectors-edition-update-5.html

Collector's Edition Update 5



Current Status of the Collector's Edition

We're done!

The last Collector's Editions will be loaded for shipping on Friday, and the Great Sending will begin the next business day.

The first wave of Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear Collector's Edition shipments will start on January 16th in North America. Shipments to the rest of the world will begin once the completed copies have reached international distribution centers. More news on that soon.

We're very happy with the Collector's Editions we'll be shipping out and can't wait to get them into your hands. We appreciate your immense patience, and hope that this will be a great way for you to end your holidays.

If you have any other questions about your order, we're happy to help you out through support@beamdog.com.
 

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