Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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BABYLON 5 was a horrible show

Discussion in 'Codex Public Library' started by Ladders & Snakes, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. Jason Lianggender: ⚧ Liturgist

    Jason Liang
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    Fixed.
     
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  2. YES!gender: ⚧ Hi, I'm Roqua

    YES!
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    If I never saw Babylon 5, or any of the Star Trek shows besides Next Generation as a kid and do not like it now, but do like Dark Matters, Fire Fly, Expanse, Colony, what shows would you guys recommend. My brother in law recommended I forget the name but it is an autronaut gets sucked to another dimension (not Buck Rogers) on a thinking ship that is kind of alive? I watched the first couple episodes and didn't like it. He gave me the box set for Battlestar Gallactica but it skips the first episode and goes right to 2. I have amazon and some other shit so I could probably see it on that maybe. Is it worth it checking out? I can't miss the first episode - that's just crazy.

    I also saw the one on SciFi childhood's end and liked it. I bought the book. And the expanse books. I was turned on to Firefly by the movie, which I loved, so bought the series a long time ago. I just recently started watching TV series in the last three or so years though so have missed everything so feel free to recommend all the sci-fi shows you think are good. I also have watched and enjoyed some KillJoys.
     
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  3. Jason Lianggender: ⚧ Liturgist

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    Andromeda. Has good moments but probably not worth the effort. Had lots of production issues so the ending is pretty terrible. If you didn't like the cast after 2-3 episodes then skip it.

    We have several threads on this subject (buried pages back). It depends on your definition of scifi but B5 quality space operas are very few. DS9 but its a slow burn. Did you try Westworld or Stranger Things yet?

    Another way to go is anime, i.e. Neon Genesis Evangelion.
     
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  4. Stokowskigender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Sounds like either Andromeda or Farscape. Difference being Andromeda is shit, and Farscape is pretty good (apart from the horribly out of place Henson Studios puppets), or at least, it slowly gets much much better (even as the theme music gets worse) over time. If you saw Andromeda, try Farscape. If you saw Farscape, I'd suggest giving it another try.

    First two seasons are very good. After that it turns to rubbish. If I knew how bad it was going to get when I started watching it, I wouldn't have started.
     
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  5. Make America Great Again Blainegender: ⚧ Cis-Het Oppressor

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    Farscape is the shit, dude.

    You'd honestly take foreheads of the week over those puppets? What on Earth for?

    Like yeah man I have a papier mache clamshell on the back of my head, wax over my eyebrows, I'm wearing some New Age women's meditation robe, and I play with glass shit all the time. 100% believable space elf my dude, suspend that disbelief.
     
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  6. Make America Great Again Jarpiegender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Jarpie
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    Rygel is the perfect example why animatronics/puppetry beats down any CGI made creature hands down. This scene is great example of how well puppetry can work:
     
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  7. Curious_Tonguegender: ⚧ Larpfest Patron

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    It looks like a cheap puppet.
     
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  8. Stokowskigender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Who said anything about "foreheads of the week"? Quite the strawman you've erected there.
     
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  9. Curious_Tonguegender: ⚧ Larpfest Patron

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    More hyperbole than strawman.
     
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  10. Stokowskigender: ⚧ Arcane

    Stokowski
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    Well technically it was a false dichotomy, but strawman is easier for some folk to grasp.
     
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  11. Mark Richardgender: ⚧ Savant

    Mark Richard
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    Andromeda is unremarkable except that the first season must have the highest death rate in television history.
    Show Spoiler
    During episode 3 Captain Hunt accidentally destroys a inhabited system. In episode 6 he preserves his timeline by destroying a Nietzschean fleet of 1,500 manned ships because it was preordained. One of the officers on his crew, a Nietzschean, had this to say:

    ‘My people have a legend about the battle of Witchhead. They say that the Nietzschean forces arrived here with overwhelming numbers. Their victory seemed assured. But then… in the critical hour the angel of death appeared, summoning forth the fires of hell. The Neitzschean fleet was struck down, crippled, their glorious victory turned to ashes.’

    He then turns towards Captain Hunt with a look of terror and says ‘I’ve never seen an angel before.’

    As Captain Hunt gives the order to annihilate tens of thousands, he declares ‘I have become death, destroyer of worlds.’
     
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  12. Make America Great Again Blainegender: ⚧ Cis-Het Oppressor

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    :roll:

    I know what a false dichotomy is, you pompous twit. I'm not trying to put words into your mouth. I'm simply assuming, very reasonably and logically, that in the hypothetical absence of the puppets you dislike, some other means of portraying the aliens in question would have been used. That leaves either CGI or actors in makeup, and since we all know how badly CGI would have worked out, then the alternative must necessarily be actors in makeup.

    "Forehead of the week" in this context is simply a convenient way to describe alien races portrayed by humans wearing a little bit of stage makeup, whether or not they're here this week and gone the next. The Centauri are the perfect example. Their entire alien physiology amounts to cans of hair spray and some stage eyebrows applied with spirit gum, although I suppose the tentacle cocks (which are puppets, come to think of it) will put in an occasional humorous appearance.

    It's a necessary evil and not necessarily a bad thing, but you apparently dislike the puppets in Farscape for no legitimate reason other than your personal preferences, despite the incredible craftsmanship that went into creating and animating them. What's especially funny is that the voice actors for the Farscape puppets are better actors than the majority of Babylon 5's main cast, at least in the first season. Perhaps their acting chops will improve in later seasons; I don't know yet.

    Claudia Christian is a prime example. That woman has one acting mode, which I'd describe as "uninspired monotone."

    The Farscape puppets are so great that I hadn't considered a third option, which is that you think they're bad puppets. In that case, you're just a tasteless Philistine.
     
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  13. Shadenuatgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    It doesn't matter, Babylon 5 aliens are mostly sociologically driven, not biologically, which is much more powerful, works great for the series that is character driven as a whole and they emphasized that in the show all the time. One of the main plot points in history of that world happened just due to small cultural military detail (Minbari/Human conflict). They did both funny and almost retarded (Ivanova getting her arm broken in alien blue/red voting game) to damn dark (parents killing their own child because he got medical treatment which was forbidden in their culture). And Farscape is more adventure series than space opera anyway.

    And tbh, Rygel is not really alien in any way but his looks. Way less alien than, say, Vorlons were. He certainly was a great character but not due to how he looked, so he could have been human looking just as, say, Londo was without losing anything of real value.
     
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  14. krisgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Now that you say it.
     
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  15. Stokowskigender: ⚧ Arcane

    Stokowski
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    Then stop doing so.

    And why move on to ad hominen attacks like "pompous twit" and "tasteless Philistine"? Are you attempting to set a record for the most logical fallacies in a single thread?


    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Curious_Tonguegender: ⚧ Larpfest Patron

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    Didn't the actress break her arm in real life?
     
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  17. mindx2gender: ⚧ Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

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    Yep (well it was her leg or foot), it also happen to Doyle and his arm break/sprain was written into the plot as he had to wear a sling. Christian had to use a cane and they filmed the beginning of the episode in a way you don't see her walking around or from the waist down (if I remember correctly).
     
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  18. Multiple Sarcasmgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Multiple Sarcasm
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    She's been very meh the whole series, although her dullness could be explained by the character being career military. But awkwardly bringing up being either Russian or Jewish in the most pointless and boring occasions was probably the bigger writing sin.

    Personally, I'd put Mira Furlan's straight-out-of-theatre overacting a tad higher on the annoyance list. No idea how they picked her for such a major role over Caitlin Brown, who stole every scene she appeared in. Funnily (and sadly) enough, Brown auditioned for Ivanova too - and still they chose the worse actress. [​IMG]
     
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  19. Make America Great Again Blainegender: ⚧ Cis-Het Oppressor

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    If I ever did, then it was only because I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

    I've explained my reasoning pretty thoroughly and outlined all alternatives. I note you've chosen not to respond to the meat of my reply—unsurprising, since that would require you to actually support your opinions with explanations. Since you refuse to do so, I have no choice but to make some assumptions. Wouldn't want to render yourself vulnerable to your own reasoning being picked apart, now would you? Gosh, that would be terrible.

    Whining about logical fallacies during an argument over a TV show on the Codex is extremely fedora-worthy, especially these days when even the dumbest Bernie-supporting Redditor is aware that a list of fallacies is just a Google keyword away. At this point, it's the online equivalent of the class dweeb tattling to the principal that Jimmy Brown has been shooting spitballs at the back of his head during algebra class.

    We all do it; for example, your "veiled" implication that I'm one of the "folks" who don't understand false dichotomies, or your screenshot of the absolute silliest and most minor puppet from the show we're discussing.

    Stop being a hypocritical whiny bitch, grow a thicker skin, and actually participate in the discussion, or fuck off somewhere else with a built-in hugbox such as RPGnet or RPG Watch.
     
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  20. Make America Great Again Jarpiegender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

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    I didn't mind Mira Furlan's acting, I thought it kinda fit the character. If there's one character/actor in B5 who was criminally underused, it was Neroon/John Vickery, they should've made him regular on the show.
     
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  21. Make America Great Again Lyric Suitegender: ⚧ Arcane

    Lyric Suite
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    Straczynski had the hots for Claudia Christian. Maybe that has something to do with it, but who knows. Ivanova was the most hackneyed "inclusive" character ever written. Wombyn in the military, who was Russian, but also a Jew (lol why not) AND they even hint at her being a lesbian. In 2017 they'd make her black and disabled 'cause where else can you go from there?
     
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  22. Make America Great Again Azalingender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

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    They could always make black vegan muslim disabled tranny
     
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  23. Multiple Sarcasmgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Latent telepath, too. The most oppressed minority before Hillary Clinton voters. :M
     
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  24. Kev Inklinegender: ⚧ Arcane

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    This is pretty much how I remember B5, too.

    The first season of B5 was rendered on Amiga, so obviously it quite cannot compete with Industrial Light and Magic. Music I don't remember being cheesy, however.
    Most actors are pretty/really bad (not Katsulas nor Jurasik), but the writing and overarching plot somehow more than makes it up.

    B5 is one of the very few series which you can say are epic, unironically.
     
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  25. Make America Great Again Jarpiegender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Jarpie
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    I am probably in a minority, but I liked O'Hare, he had that "war veteran reservedness" quality to him. Given what he was going through behind the scenes, he did imo a good job with the role.
     
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