Avernum 5

[Severian Silk]

I started playing Avernum 5, and I'm not really enjoying it that much. It's not that I dislike it, it's just not living up to expectations after hearing all the praise here for the series.

Most of the quests so far seem like very simple "Plzzz heero, kill rat or univers splode!!1" quests. Some of them would be interesting, except they are limited to one or two tasks, a few short dialogue strings, and then you never see/hear from the character again. Not much of an emotional investment, and actually bordering on tedium.

The combat is OK. Better than your average roguelike at least, and about the only thing keeping me going right now.

Does it get better later on as it progresses?

 

[SCO]

It does get better towards the end game, (a hard dungeon with hard bosses, and some interesting hubs and combat or stealth challenges) but you've chosen the less interesting of those two series. While geneforge is a multi faction free for all, avernum is a sequential (almost) no return dungeon crawler. There is a major choice, but it is kinda cosmetic, and there are some moral choices, that cuts off some (small) hubs or gets you some rewards.

The game is also longer than it looks.

 

[SCO]

The quests in both tend to be simple, except when you realize that you can do them with stealth and thus not antagonize some faction (this happens only on geneforge? I don't remember the avernum details)

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

All Avernums generally get better as you progress along. At heart though, they are decent oldschool CRPG's that keep you alive during the long drought, rather than being something new and improved. I have enjoyed the ongoing saga of Exile/Avernum quite a bit.

Geneforge is another one that starts off a touch slowly, especially the first game. Again, quite an enjoyable experience.

Don't forget to try Nethergate. Very good game.

 

[Fowyr]

I started playing Avernum 5, and I'm not really enjoying it that much. It's not that I dislike it, it's just not living up to expectations after hearing all the praise here for the series.

Avernums (especially A4 and A5) are shit compared to Exiles. But not bad games, however.

 

[SuicideBunny]

question: is there any way to release the dark energy seal for emperor palpatine without the town noticing it was you?

n/m, i confuzored 6 and 5. 5 was a terrible game.

 

[Monocause]

@OP:

Go for Avernum 2 or 3 (preferably do both in the right order), the newer ones (4-6) are worse, the geneforge engine didn't really serve the series well. You might also go even further and try the Exile series but that depends on how high your old-school tolerance is.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

question: is there any way to release the dark energy seal for emperor palpatine without the town noticing it was you?

n/m, i confuzored 6 and 5. 5 was a terrible game.

Do you mean in those undead ruins? the quest for gladwell or however he was called? If yes, dunno. First time I've been in there I let the seal alone and only saved the sage, so second time I was in there I broke the seal and when I came out all the other sages fled from the undead but no one accused me or something.

Other question:
How do I defeat the fang clan chieftain?
And secondly how do I defeat the sentinels that guards the sarcophagus of the lich?

 

[Jim Cojones]

How do I defeat the fang clan chieftain?

That's the one you fight on the arena, isn't it?

I don't think there were any puzzles involved in this encounter so I resorted to usual stuff: summon minions if you have less than two of them, spam heal and offensive spells. Keep your magician and priest as far from him as possible so you don't risk they'll be attacked. I can't remember if new enemies join the combat after previous ones are killed but if they do, control their mind.

 

[Trash]

Avernum 6 is actually one of the best Avernums out there. I think Vogel enjoyed starting armageddon in his little fantasy world.

 

[SuicideBunny]

i like how emperor palpatine questline is

Spoiler

one of the major ones deciding the fate of avernum but disguised as a meager side-quest

and how you can

Spoiler

kill him and the dragon to ensure avernum stays free of friggin carebears and wannabe gods, as it should be.

it was a rather satisfactory ending.

Do you mean in those undead ruins? the quest for gladwell or however he was called? If yes, dunno. First time I've been in there I let the seal alone and only saved the sage, so second time I was in there I broke the seal and when I came out all the other sages fled from the undead but no one accused me or something.

yup, but gladwell sounds so lame, and he looks and behaves just like a palpatine clone.

the mayor of the nearby town didn't want to talk to me saying something along the lines of "haven't you done enough already? i don't want to talk to you", iirc.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

How do I defeat the fang clan chieftain?

That's the one you fight on the arena, isn't it?

No but thanks for reminding me about the arena (in Spire), I already forgot that I skipped that since I couldn't beat the second or third fight. Should travel back soon, since I made quite some levels. (~31 lvl currently)

On your way to the northern occupied lands you can enter the fang clan fortress, and their chief is the bossfight. He will unleash a mighty blow or some shit once in a while that works as AoE and does terrific damage. MY tanks are instantly killed even with defense, steelward and an invulnerable elixier (elixier not potion, so the stronger variety of these potions). FFS I read somehing like *Chieftain deals 188 dmg (1122 damage absorbed)* in the log. FFS over 1000 dmg absorbed and still an instakill?? What an annoying fucker.

The other fight I'm a bit desperate about is this lich fight. Fighting the lich itself just required some reloads until I managed to dogde the pylon blasts, but the sentinels upstairs are just obliterating me. I can't possibly outheal the massive magic damage they deal. Plus they summon, summon, summon.

 

[Severian Silk]

I've gotten to the Drake Pillars portion, and the combat encounters are at least more interesting.

 

[Jason]

On your way to the northern occupied lands you can enter the fang clan fortress, and their chief is the bossfight. He will unleash a mighty blow or some shit once in a while that works as AoE and does terrific damage. MY tanks are instantly killed even with defense, steelward and an invulnerable elixier (elixier not potion, so the stronger variety of these potions). FFS I read somehing like *Chieftain deals 188 dmg (1122 damage absorbed)* in the log. FFS over 1000 dmg absorbed and still an instakill?? What an annoying fucker.

The text at the bottom will warn you that he's getting ready to leap up or something like that. Back everyone off from him by several spaces and keep up ranged attacks. You can send your tanks back in to melee distance once he's completed the attack and then move them back again when you see the warning. Keep re-summoning when need be because it's likely that his special attack will keep killing them instantly.

 

[ecliptic]

How is Avernum 1-3 inferior to Exile 1-3??

 

[Fowyr]

How is Avernum 1-3 inferior to Exile 1-3??

Because the only plus of Avernum was dialogue trees and minuses outweighs it. Combat, four-characters party, spells, character system, loss of food, etc.

 

[Monocause]

On your way to the northern occupied lands you can enter the fang clan fortress, and their chief is the bossfight. He will unleash a mighty blow or some shit once in a while that works as AoE and does terrific damage. MY tanks are instantly killed even with defense, steelward and an invulnerable elixier (elixier not potion, so the stronger variety of these potions). FFS I read somehing like *Chieftain deals 188 dmg (1122 damage absorbed)* in the log. FFS over 1000 dmg absorbed and still an instakill?? What an annoying fucker.

The text at the bottom will warn you that he's getting ready to leap up or something like that. Back everyone off from him by several spaces and keep up ranged attacks. You can send your tanks back in to melee distance once he's completed the attack and then move them back again when you see the warning. Keep re-summoning when need be because it's likely that his special attack will keep killing them instantly.

This. I don't know if by 're-summoning' you meen summoning spells but I found them to be crucial. You need to time your summons properly so that he won't take them both out. Also - slow and curse the fucker as often as you can. I got through this fight on Hard and had to sacrifice a single party member - consider doing so if your whole party is in a wipe-out threat.

Besides, as your attorney I advise you to invest more in endurance. If at that point 188 dmg is an insta-kill you haven't invested enough. A glass cannon PC was a decent choice in most of the Avernum series, but not so in A6.

ecliptic wrote:
How is Avernum 1-3 inferior to Exile 1-3??

fowyr wrote:
Because the only plus of Avernum was dialogue trees and minuses outweighs it. Combat, four-characters party, spells, character system, loss of food, etc.

I'd say you should take your pick depending on how old-school you are. Once I played Avernum I couldn't get into Exile again. I found exploration to be much more fun in Av, for example.

One thing I missed was the huge number of Exile spells. Most of them were redundant but a lot of them made for some interesting tactical opportunities (like the wall spells). Besides - quickfire.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Besides, as your attorney I advise you to invest more in endurance. If at that point 188 dmg is an insta-kill you haven't invested enough. A glass cannon PC was a decent choice in most of the Avernum series, but not so in A6.

I have now 8 endurance on my fighters which is 226 HP, do I need to invest even more? I already have massive skillpoint sinks in Parry & Blademaster to unlock Riposte.

 

[Monocause]

Ah, OK. I thought that 188 dmg was a real figure and that if it was insta-kill your endurance was about 5-6.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Ah, OK. I thought that 188 dmg was a real figure and that if it was insta-kill your endurance was about 5-6.

yes back then I had only 6 or so, so it was an instakill at full health, but I figured I might need a bit more... still 226 doesn't seem so much compared to the enemies

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

another question: where's the hard proof for the Darkside Loyalists quest?

 

[Jason]

There's an outpost to the west of Spire, after going through a little forest. Check the containers for the proof. Downstairs from that is where you'll find the Loyalist leader that the dragon asks you to kill.

I don't know if by 're-summoning' you meen summoning spells but I found them to be crucial.

Yep, summoning spirits and critters.

 

[ElectricOtter]

Honestly? Avernum 5 really isn't the best. Play Exile 2/3, Nethergate (original), and Avernum 6. Congratulations! You have just had your non-Geneforge Spiderweb Software experience. Oh, and then play Geneforge 1, 2, 4 (if you really want to), and 5.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

There's an outpost to the west of Spire, after going through a little forest. Check the containers for the proof. Downstairs from that is where you'll find the Loyalist leader that the dragon asks you to kill.

Ah ok, I was there but didn't enter at that point. I killed the sentinels of the Lich, somehow it was pretty easy this time. Don't know why. Probably better equipment. As for the cat chief, is the loot worthwhile to go back and kill him and expend resources?

 

[mountain hare]

Honestly? Avernum 5 really isn't the best. Play Exile 2/3, Nethergate (original), and Avernum 6. Congratulations! You have just had your non-Geneforge Spiderweb Software experience. Oh, and then play Geneforge 1, 2, 4 (if you really want to), and 5.

Truer words could not have been said.

Avernum 5 is, quite simply, a grind. It actually starts off semi-decent, but as the game progresses, it becomes nothing more than a gauntlet of sub-bosses with a ridiculous amount of hitpoints, numerous resistances, and overpowered attacks. Challenging fights are sometimes good, but when they last over 10 minutes, and consist of nothing more than healing and casting Charm Foe, it gets old fast.

The linear structure of the game doesn't help much, either. I'd be happy navigating through a sausage chain of maps if there was a driving force to do so, but the story just fell flat for me. There was no sense of actually chasing Dorikas, instead you just had to complete bullshit filler quests to get to the next sausage in the chain.