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Avernum 2: Crystal Souls

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,022
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Platypus Planet
Will wait for the steam release, which will be midnight today. Ugh.

Edit: What the hell? It's priced higher on steam at 17€ (normal price 20€). On GOG it's 14,49€ (normal price 17€). Wat.
 
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Correct_Carlo

Arcane
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
8,470
Location
Pronouns: He/Him/His
It's out now on Steam, but for some reason it's not showing up under their "popular new releases" tab. You have to look under their "all new releases" tab instead.

I always thought the "popular" tab was all new releases that weren't DLC, but I guess not.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
Didn't GoG make a big stink about how they were going to even out regional pricing? Shit like that is presumably why. If normal price is 20 euros then they're apparently just doing dollar=euro on Steam.

And by they I of course mean this villain.

vogel.jpg
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
It's out now on Steam, but for some reason it's not showing up under their "popular new releases" tab. You have to look under their "all new releases" tab instead.

I always thought the "popular" tab was all new releases that weren't DLC, but I guess not.
It got changed with the "Steam discovery" update. New releases tab used to be exactly that, new releases. Now it's "Popular new releases" which is only shit that drums up a certain amount of sales/interest. I don't like it either.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,460
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Day 1 purchase; I bought it on steam the moment I got home. Not going to play it right away, though. I'm finishing up a trakovite run through Geneforge 5, I'm busy with work, and my wife keeps pestering me to play talisman digital edition with her. Still, Spiderweb games are top stuff (except Avadon, which is dog shit), so I hope to give it a go soon.

When is our 2015 Nethergate re-release going to hit the (electronic) shelves????
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,022
Location
Platypus Planet
Game is gud. I wish Geneforge had combat as good as this game, but whatever, this is more of a combatfag game I guess. Setting is p. good too. I like settings that take place in subterranean areas. I'll be sure to play Escape from the Pit after I finish this game. :thumbsup:
 

Correct_Carlo

Arcane
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Jul 19, 2012
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Pronouns: He/Him/His
So instead of doing new games he is gonna milk his old games with rerererere-releases over and over again?

He's settled into a pattern of alternating between new games and remakes. The next game he releases will be Avadon 3, followed by Avernum 3 remake.

He's said in the past that he thinks he has one more sprawling, Geneforge style, open world C&C type IP in him before he retires. So hopefully he will do that after Avadon 3 (He's really not that old, though, just mid 40s, but from the way he bitches about how old he is on his blog, you'd think he was 60 or something....I do think he might be getting burnt out on making games, though).

I imagine he might start remaking the Geneforges then, but I personally don't think they need it that badly. Their graphics are awful, but unlike the first Avernum trilogy, I don't think their interfaces are in dire need of a make over.

He's also said that Avadon 2 didn't sell that well, though, so I personally kind of wish he'd abandon the Avadons and start a new IP. I like the Avadons more than most around these parts seem to, but they are definitely the least of Spiderweb's series.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
41,477
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Swedish Empire
He's settled into a pattern of alternating between new games and remakes. The next game he releases will be Avadon 3, followed by Avernum 3 remake.

He's said in the past that he thinks he has one more sprawling, Geneforge style, open world C&C type IP in him before he retires. So hopefully he will do that after Avadon 3 (He's really not that old, though, just mid 40s, but from the way he bitches about how old he is on his blog, you'd think he was 60 or something....I do think he might be getting burnt out on making games, though).

I imagine he might start remaking the Geneforges then, but I personally don't think they need it that badly. Their graphics are awful, but unlike the first Avernum trilogy, I don't think their interfaces are in dire need of a make over.

He's also said that Avadon 2 didn't sell that well, though, so I personally kind of wish he'd abandon the Avadons and start a new IP. I like the Avadons more than most around these parts seem to, but they are definitely the least of Spiderweb's series.

Well they where OK games, but he should make more games with the Geneforge IP i think, preferable open-world.
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
13,465
I think his current strategy works, if you can't come up with a new great work, refining your old works is ok. In other media, it's made with even less effort, like "Best of" "Bestest of Best of" "Really best of" "Definitive" in music. JV knows, that making games is a business and doesn't pretend otherwise. It's not like he isn't transparent about it or does Kickstarter / EA scamming to pay for fancy offices in SF.
I can understand that you are a bit burnt out if you do basically the same stuff for 20 years know, but it's up too him how he handles that. Having a family makes him risk averse of course, and Avadon showed him, that his audience isn't receiving it too well, if he deviates from what they are used to.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,439
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2015/01/avernum-2-crystal-souls-is-out-some.html

Avernum 2: Crystal Souls Is Out. Some Cranky Thoughts.


The II in this logo is hard to see, and it drives me nuts every time I look at it.

We have just released our newest game. It's Avernum 2: Crystal Souls. It is a huge indie RPG for Windows and Mac (iPad coming soon), onSteam, GoG.com, Humble Store, and our own website. You know. All the places the cool kids hang out.

It came out yesterday and early sales are very strong. Thank you, kind customers!

Avernum 2: Crystal Souls is, like half of what we do, a rewrite. This particular story is arguably the one loved most by our fans. (Avernum 3 is the other contender) The previous incarnation, Avernum 2, came out way, WAY back in 2000, so I am utterly unapologetic about releasing a rewrite.

My main goals when doing these rewrites is to respect and maintain what made people love them in the first place. This is made so much more important by the fact that I can't write new games like this anymore.

Cool Things About Avernum 2

The first two Avernum games have a story structure that is still unique in RPGs. There isn't one storyline. There's three, each of which has its own goal, missions, final boss, etc. You can play one of them and have a satisfying game experience, or you can be hardcore and do more.

It's a huge game, and I wanted people to be able to play a smaller chunk of it and still feel that they got somewhere. I think there's a good idea in there, and other developers should steal it.

Also, the game takes place in Avernum, a subterranean nation full of exiles, petty criminals, and weird, alien races. It's like Australia, but with even more monsters. Or like the proverbial parents' basement, but a country. It's a really cool setting, one that has resonated with players for over twenty years. I still love it.


Avernum 2: Crystal Souls is a rewrite of Avernum 2, which came our in 2000 and looks like this.

Nobody Wants an Aging Rock Star To Play the New Stuff

If you go see the Rolling Stones in concert, you don't want to hear their new stuff. Yuck. Boring! You want to hear the old hits, written when they were young and energetic and crazy and fresh.

My old games are kind of the same. As I rework them, I can't get over how weird and quirky and energetic and chaotic the stuff I did when I was young was. My games were full of rough edges, joyfully overpowered spells, and the sort of concentrated oddness I have a harder time generating as I get old and boring.

Rewriting them, I've tried to make it a bit more user-friendly with modern tweaks like quest lists and tooltips. Yet, I mostly spend my time being jealous of how silly and loose I could be when I was young.

When I wrote the Avernum trilogy for the first time (when they were called Exile), I just threw everything in there I could think of, and, thanks to a weird alchemy of skill and dumb luck, it worked. People loved the games, and I got a career out of it.


Avernum 2 was a rewrite of Exile 2: Crystal Souls, which came out in 1996 and looks like this. Some people seriously tell me that my games haven't changed at all since I started. Oh, you silly internet!

You Still Have To Make New Stuff, Or You Go Insane

Don't get me wrong. I am proud of my newer games. They don't sell as well, but they do have a following. I don't hallucinate the fan mail.

I still need to keep doing the rewrites. They make good money. People like them. The old games don't run well (or at all) anymore. I get tablet versions out of the deal. So I'm going to keep doing it. When people complain about rewrites, it just means they've failed to fully acknowledge how awesome I am.

And I still need to write new games, with new systems and interfaces and stories, or I will simply go insane. If you like my old stuff better, I won't take offense. Different people like different things.

But More About Avernum 2: Crystal Souls

It's a really big game. The story and setting are cool. It's retro and oldschool, but with a modern interface to keep it fun. There's a big demoon our website, if you aren't sure. Take a look!
 

InternalRevenue

Educated
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
54
I've played about 2 hours of the demo and can take no more of this crap. The game has the same giant problem as all recent Vogel games: Excessive HP bloat. This time it even hits right off the bat, with "mini-boss" like enemies in the tutorial area and neph castle that'll take 5+ turns of you whittling away their hp and healing damage every turn, like some sort of fucking MMO. With the number of enemies and simplistic combat, this drags on and on. I see a lot of people in this forum who like to shit on the first Avernums (they were badly dumbed down from the Exiles, fair enough), but at least the enemies didn't have 10x your HP and could be downed quickly.
 

AMG

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
374
The first two Avernum games have a story structure that is still unique in RPGs. There isn't one storyline. There's three, each of which has its own goal, missions, final boss, etc. You can play one of them and have a satisfying game experience, or you can be hardcore and do more.

It's a huge game, and I wanted people to be able to play a smaller chunk of it and still feel that they got somewhere. I think there's a good idea in there, and other developers should steal it.
Bioware did for Dragon Age 2.
Also why did he ever switch to "isometric" perspective if he can't afford/produce assets to make it not look awful? The exile screenshot looks better than the abortion above it and was most likely cheaper to make. Do people really prefer the top screenshot?
 

Achiman

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
810
Location
Australia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
What is it with every solo developer adopting a passive aggressive tone? I would hate to have to read half the abuse this guy surely must get, but he just comes off whiney when I read it.

Also I don't care if it's a remake, there are too many exciting new indie games which have a similar if not better: graphics, production values, style and ideas which are way less than the $15 Jeff wants. Maybe steam,groupees,humble bundles has devalued all games, but I don't care. I also don't care enough to pirate games anymore either because of it.
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
The game has the same giant problem as all recent Vogel games: Excessive HP bloat. This time it even hits right off the bat, with "mini-boss" like enemies in the tutorial area and neph castle that'll take 5+ turns of you whittling away their hp and healing damage every turn

What difficulty were you playing on?

And the real problem with the Avernum 2, tbh (playing it atm to make the next funbuilding about it - I'm not that interested in actually playing it, tbh, but I don't mind against getting some attention of people who like buttfuck ugly rpgs, y'know), that it has zero fresh ideas. I understand that it is the remake and stuff, but at this point it feels precisely like every Avernum before it. And while I had great fun while playing Av 5 & 6 (they are very good), they were very big, huge almost, and the experience was rather exhaustive. I certainly don't want more of this crap and it seems that Vogel can't be bothered to invent anything (and I mean _anything_) new. His loss, in the end.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Bioware did for Dragon Age 2.
Also why did he ever switch to "isometric" perspective if he can't afford/produce assets to make it not look awful? The exile screenshot looks better than the abortion above it and was most likely cheaper to make. Do people really prefer the top screenshot?

I'm not really sure why, but Vogel's graphics just strike me as somewhere between boring and ugly.
I don't have particularly high standards when it comes to graphics in muh gaems, but they are simply lacking in charm, graphics-wise.
Take e.g. the Eschalon series. Surely it's not AAA-grade presentation, but it just has so much more atmosphere, imho.
 
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bloodlover

Arcane
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
2,039
Is there a way to zoom in or something? Looking at the screenshots from GOG, I can barely see the characters.
 

Nim

Augur
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
453
Is there a way to zoom in or something? Looking at the screenshots from GOG, I can barely see the characters.
Playing in a smaller resolution is the only way from what I can see (played the demo in 1400x900 instead of 1920x1200).
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,022
Location
Platypus Planet
Is there a way to zoom in or something? Looking at the screenshots from GOG, I can barely see the characters.

I am (have to) playing it with a 1280 x 1024 resolution otherwise everything is so teeny tiny that I can't see anything even with my glasses on. But with the resolution I'm using I have no problems at all.

I'm not really sure why, but Vogel's graphics just strike me as somewhere between boring and ugly.
I don't have particularly high standards when it comes to graphics in muh gaems, but they are simply lacking in charm, graphics-wise.
Take e.g. the Eschalon series. Surely it's not AAA-grade presentation, but it just has some much more atmosphere, imho.

Looking at the art style I'd say that Eschalon looks very close to this. What Eschalon did have was some nice weather and lighting effects which made it more atmospheric in certain places.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Looking at the art style I'd say that Eschalon looks very close to this. What Eschalon did have was some nice weather and lighting effects which made it more atmospheric in certain places.

Yes, I think that's an important factor. Also a better/more natural colour palette in comparison to Vogel's games.
Although admittedly Avernum 2 manages to look quite ok in some maps. And anyway the looks is probably not the reason why one does play it, so...
 

Explorerbc

Arcane
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
1,170
So I guess I am the only one who likes the art in these games :P
 
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Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,022
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Platypus Planet
I like the in-game art. It's functional and good enough. The only art I don't like in Avernum 2 are the embarrassing napkin scribbles that pop up when you highlight the different skills in the skill trees.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Much of the art is fine (although the napkin scribbles are borderline), but I don't like engine, tileset and the UI (in the older games, UI in Avernum 2 seems fine from what I can tell).
 

Branm

Learned
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
472
Location
Ottawa
I liked the first remake escape from the pit...Will purchase. Ty for letting me know :) Too bad he doesn't remake the geneforges :(

Edit: Then again....19 bucks mhmm i dunno might have to wait. I still got shit to play anyway. If i get a new game now I'll never finish the crap in my ever growing backlog
 
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