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Are Final Fantasy VI & XII the best main series FFs of all time?

Grampy_Bone

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(okay one or two of those complaints was hyperbole but as a long-time FF fan I REALLY dislike FF12).
Did you try the translated 'international' (in reality japan and korea) version. It changed the job board to 10 or so archetypes subboards (which i then used a cheat to allow class changing because i have no taste and it work surprisigly well to access skills before you should with some planning - but not too well). It also has a game inbuilt fast forward so... yeah.

The International Zodiac Job System is how the game should have shipped from the start. I mean, the overhauled treasure system alone is a game-changer for me. Not to mention the Job System, of course. I hope the Zodiac Age re-release comes to PC.

No, I don't see how the license board is salvageable. It's already a tedious, pointless exercise in unlocking equipment; limiting characters to a subset of equipment doesn't really change that. Characters don't really play different with different weapons, since the combat is just auto-fight/heal. Unless I'm missing something.

Fast forwarding the fights is not exactly a selling point either. I didn't know it changed the treasure system, how is it different?
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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No, I don't see how the license board is salvageable. It's already a tedious, pointless exercise in unlocking equipment; limiting characters to a subset of equipment doesn't really change that. Characters don't really play different with different weapons, since the combat is just auto-fight/heal. Unless I'm missing something.

Fast forwarding the fights is not exactly a selling point either. I didn't know it changed the treasure system, how is it different?

Well, the license board is nothing but a experience system with a different name. Except not only you get stronger, you also get access to more and better equipment. The Job system makes it so that each character plays considerably different, whereas in the vanilla game you could make all of them jack of all trades, master of all of them. Need to cure a character? Don't worry, everyone can do it. In the International version, however, if your healer happens to be down, you are going to need to use items, which are less effective.

The treasure system of old was broken as hell. Most of the time the gil and the items were completely useless. Rare items were locked behind impossible odds and they were easily missed because of RNG. Also, to respawn chests you needed to zone three zones away, IIRC. Now you only need to zone out once, and chests have received better treasure, so they don't feel like a tiresome exercise in RNG. Overall much better.
 

Hobo Elf

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controversial opinion time: the mmorpg ffxiv heavensward (which I don't play btw) has some of the best music of all final fantasy games.

but overall best music is probably FF7.
best story probably FF7.
best characters probably FF7.

I hate the FF7 fandom more than most things but I can't deny the game had a lot of things going for it.

best combat is probably ff8 or something.
FF14 has a godlike ost. Nothing controversial about this opinion.
 

Falksi

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Good to see so much love for the often underrated FF5.
My faves are 5, 10 & 7, but I think all of them are worth playing up until 13. The only one I never finished was 12, the combat areas just ended up way too big, long and empty after around the halfway point.
What's the thoughts on 15? Haven't gone anywhere near it yet.
 

Hyperion

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If you thought 12 was big, long, and empty FF15 will make it seem like you're lost in another multiverse.

12 is 10 years older than 15, yet if you compare them side by side, minus graphics, 12 is essentially a compact, streamlined version of 15 with triple the character customization from party members and gear alone. Add in the class system Zodiac Age is introducing for those who haven't emulated the International edition and 15 gets absolutely smashed in terms of character building.

Outside of the 'flashy' (read: shitty) combat, everything about 12 is more modern and sensical than 15. Even the plot that was clearly chopped up and unfinished from Yiazmat's departure makes more sense than the 10 year dump-in-the-pants that was 15. A plot so bad it had to be altered 5 months after release.
 
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Falksi

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Ugggh. Thanks Hyperion. I thought the reviews reaked of "we want it to be good, but in reality it's wank". Be a long time before I entertain 15 then. I've all on getting past the pathetic boy band group aesthetics.
 

Beastro

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May 11, 2015
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IV was melodramatic as fuck, so many heroic sacrifices. It was their first attempt at a story driven FF, so they went nuts with the drama. And I still don't understand what's up with Cecil's dark knight sprite.

That's a part of its appeal and how it gives off this vibe of being a kids bedtime story.

And it knows what it is without any pretentiousness, something that cannot be said for the FF series since FFVII when the series became a conduit for the developers to express their unfulfilled (and then failed) movie making desires.

but overall best music is probably FF7.
best story probably FF7.
best characters probably FF7.

Ranking FF music is hard since each games soundtrack fits each so well. With that said, as much as I love FF II, III and VIIs soundtracks the one I keep consistently going back to listen to is IX

Storywise FFVII is good, but they way they present a lot of stuff can result in you missing large chunks of it. I think FFIII has the best being the perfect balance between the kiddy-ish ways of the older games while being quite mature in places. It kept in mind it was a game story through and through.

Characters, FFIII again balancing the large ensemble nicely with only Relm and Strago really neglected.

best combat is probably ff8 or something.

:o

It's about the worst in my opinion without much variety between linking OP spells to melee attack and just chain auto-attacking or GF spam that will quickly make you get sick of mashing O to boost their attack (and for many GFs you need to, the power jump from boosting is so large that if you skip on it you shouldn't even bother with them and just attack spam).

For me it would be FFVII with the edition of limit breaks as well as finding a BIT of a balance between magic and melee even if it paved the way for summoning spam and got how that progressively worse the deeper you got into the game. You could specialize in certain materia to make limit breaks very powerful that could allow Cloud to get through the arena with something of a chance.

Edit: Either that or FFIII which had a really awesome mix of melee and spells that had summons be useful but prevented them from being spamable, it still suffered badly from having spells and abilities be very situationally OP from encounter to encounter that you wouldn't figure out without a walkthrough.
 
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Hyperion

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FFVII's biggest problem was the availability of power at endgame combined with a 9,999 damage cap made the 'best' characters, spells, and attacks all of the ones with the greatest amount of hits. Same deal as VIII, really. The one thing X did right was adding the break damage cap, which XII International handled better by virtue of being a better game.

I was really not a huge fan of FFIX for quite a few reasons, but it did have a pretty stellar OST, some of which were similar to, and improvements upon FFII / IV tracks.





 

Sigourn

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Best combat = Final Fantasy X
Best customization = Final Fantasy VII
Best use of equipment = Final Fantasy IX's learning of skills + Final Fantasy X's customization of equipment abilities
Best music = Final Fantasy IX
Best characters = Final Fantasy XII
 
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
No poll, as I'd rather get some real answers with arguments.

Final Fantasy XII is the Temple of Elemental Evil of Final Fantasies: a great concept substantially reduced in production and you can feel this reduction in every part of the game. The constant sense of "what could have been" pervading the game ruins it for me.
 

newtmonkey

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Rosa was last truly pure waifu

Playing on actual hardware on a CRT. Can't get better than that.

---

Okay, this ended up being much longer than I expected, but here goes:

I played FF 1 through 7 (with the exception of 5, since I ran out of time) on real hardware a few years ago during marathon sessions in between jobs. Some were replays, some were for the first time. I enjoyed all of them to some degree or another.

FF1: This was a huge shock. I played the PSX remake, but using the original NES/FAMI rules. Simply an amazing JRPG, pretty comparable to early western RPGs imo. No grinding required whatsoever if you play smart (learn which enemies are dangerous, which items can be used in battle for free spells [later on in the game], when to run, etc.). Sometimes that means you need to leave a dungeon halfway through and make the trek back to town because you are low on resources of course. I even used some weird ass party, maybe a Fighter, two Red Mages, and a White Mage. One of the best games I have ever played, and there is even a bit of "non-linearity" in that you can sometimes access dungeons meant for exploring much later in the game—just run in, get some high level loot, and run out.

FF2: This was another surprise. I played the PSX remake, but again, using the original NES/FAMI rules. People HATE this game. That's because they follow the retarded FAQs all over the Internet which tell you "helpful" tricks like attacking your own party to gain HPs, etc. The game simply does not work like this; it is meant to be played without using these stupid tricks. The important things are: specialize your characters, keep them protected but light, always choose the weapon that offers better agility, and learn to buff your characters with your spells. By the end of the game, without any grinding or dumbass tricks, I steamrolled the last boss.

FF3: Fun game, but the class system is less about experimenting and more about solving puzzles. Played this one of the actual hardware (famicom). The trick here is to, again, specialize. There is some semi-hidden stat that measures your mastery of each class, I forget exactly. So you need to specialize at least one character as a black mage as soon as possible, since switching a fighter to a black mage right before a boss will just end in failure (since that mastery stat is so low). Once I learned that, the game was a lot of fun. Buffing spells/items stack endlessly in the original version, so by the time you get to the last boss, it's just a matter of keeping your characters alive long enough to stack multiple buffs on your fighter(s). No grinding required whatsoever in this one.

FF4: This was a replay, though I played the Japanese version this time. Didn't really hold up imo. The music is awesome, really one of the best soundtracks from the SNES/SFC of all time, and it has aged wonderfully—no excessive reverb, no weird sounding horns or guitars, it just sounds great even today. The graphics are also really nice. Unfortunately, the game is ridiculously linear. Any two players at any given point in the game will have the exact same party (of the exact same classes). This turns the battle system into something more like a puzzle game, as the designers are 100% sure of what your abilities are at any given part of the game. I didn't get any satisfaction whatsoever from winning any battles here. The dungeons are so simple that you don't need to map them, and you hardly find anything worthwhile in them. The exception is the final dungeon, where you have several "optional" bosses you can seek out to get some excellent equipment. The story did nothing for me as a kid, and it did nothing for me as an adult.

FF6: Great. The linear first half of the game is a bit of a drag for someone who has already finished the game as a kid, but at least you get to play around with the magicite and party composition. This gives you a lot more room to develop your own strategies. However, the second half of the game blew my mind—keep in mind, I had played and finished this game before, back when it was first released. You get a nonlinear world to explore, full of optional content that includes not only awesome equipment to seek out, but story stuff too. This really pulled me in. I even drew a little map of the overworld to track all the stuff I was doing.

FF7: Surprisingly good. When I played through this the first time back when it came out, I lost interest a few hours in. At that point I just followed a strategy guide to get through it. This time through, enough years had passes where I had forgotten everything outside of the first few hours, and I really enjoyed it.
FF7 has way more in common with the previous games than it does with the following ones. It's a weird mix of goofy and serious (like FF6) and they cared more about making a fun world to explore than something that seemed consistent. I enjoyed the music (which was criticized back then for sounding too "synthy"), and I even liked the story. Being able to select your own party (after a certain point) and using the materia system allowed you to develop your own strategies. I dunno, I enjoyed this one, and it seemed like a fitting end to "classic" FF games to me.
 

Mozg

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Oct 20, 2015
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I thought 7+10 were OK (I tried firing up 7 in an emulator at some point in the last decade and the amount of time it takes to give you any significant freedom to do or decide anything is absolutely insane, couldn't get out of the prologue) but I hated, hated 12. I was deep in loathing for anything that even smelled like MMO maps or mechanics at the time, though.
 

Beastro

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May 11, 2015
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I thought 7+10 were OK (I tried firing up 7 in an emulator at some point in the last decade and the amount of time it takes to give you any significant freedom to do or decide anything is absolutely insane,


Part of that is the appeal of FFVII where you spend so damn long in Midgard that when you finally get out of it it's shocking and you get a real feel for the size of the game world in a way that wasn't done in the series (or most RPGs) before. It also plays into the story as well, where Shinra is so globally dominant only Yutai was left to resist it and even though they're fairly independent still, they're a defeated backwater.

Everything that matters in the world is in Midgard, hence it's name. Everything else serves at best as some sort of recreation for it, like Costa del Sol, the Skiing Resort and or the Golden Saucer. That also plays into the ecological themes of the story and world shrinking ability modernity has on society.

They tried doing more of that with FFVIII being more of a realistic, contiguous world, but it failed so terribly where massive swaths of the world were politically vacant.
 
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Mozg

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I'm really not even talking about when you get to the world map, but before that. There's an enormous stretch of time where you get nothing but "press X repeatedly" combat and running from the entry point to the exit point of blurry JPEGs (while getting interrupted by loading times -> press X repeatedly combat). Something like Dragon Warrior where you get to decide when to rest, how far to explore, whether to buy the stick or the wooden armor first is brain surgery in comparison.
 

Falksi

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I've played most of them and, whilst I could fault all of the in various ways, think that every entry up to and including 10 is a great RPG in it's own right.
8 is my least favourite out that selection, but I still played it to completion.
2/4, 5, 7 & 10 were all brilliant experiences for me. With 5 & 10 getting the most replays.
 

Beastro

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I'm really not even talking about when you get to the world map, but before that. There's an enormous stretch of time where you get nothing but "press X repeatedly" combat and running from the entry point to the exit point of blurry JPEGs (while getting interrupted by loading times -> press X repeatedly combat). Something like Dragon Warrior where you get to decide when to rest, how far to explore, whether to buy the stick or the wooden armor first is brain surgery in comparison.

Ok I get you, and what I said largely still stands. That really on rails gameplays is part of the package and makes that later free roaming all the more appealing, especially on replays.

FFIII did the same thing up until the battle or Narshe and FFII did it until you were able to get your hands on your first airship after returning to Baron, albeit due to that games weaknesses, and it being the one to start the trend in the series, since that game alternated between railroading you when the plot desired it and giving you free reign to search for hidden upgrades.

A pattern of "take and give away airship" begins from very start of the game and sometimes even when you are able to keep your airship it's still handicapped, like when Cid blows up the hole leading to the surface and you get stuck with an airship that can't do much because it doesn't have a metal shield on it's hull to let you go across lava.

8 is my least favourite out that selection, but I still played it to completion.

First few times I kept dropping out right before the trip to Ester. I finally got my right moment and was able to get through all of that to the final dungeon end grind prep, but by then the game had burned me out and abandoned it without trying the Bahamut fight.

Keep in mind I was rather destitute at the time with no heating during a rapidly cooling Autumn and a lot of time on my hands, and I still didn't want to jump through those last hoops for that fucking game. I was well aware of what I was doing and the way that game treats you before that didn't make me want bare with it anymore even when I've done worse grinding in other games, but those were ones I really liked and wanted to like and finish.
 

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