Butthurt Arcanum Vs Fallout.

[an Administrator]

Now, every new Witcher game is the greatest RPG of all time

 

[MWaser]

The worst parts about Arcanum:

• Chaotic shit combat in real time, same shit but slower in turn based but you can actually make decisions mid-combat because it's not over after 1 second
• Game is overloaded with overly long dungeons which simply drain your resources, although that doesn't mean they're not difficult
• Lots of annoying mechanics that completely ruin your enjoyment of the game, from enemies that break your weapon when you hit them, enemies that break your armor when they hit you, critical misses that absolutely wreck your shit etc.
• Game runs like ass, no idea how anyone got it to run in 2001 when it seems crud computers lag it like fuck
• Lots of bugs, lots of obvious cut content

But really, outside of the shit aspects of the game, I love the magic, the crafting is fucking wonderful and the persuasion is among my favourites. Also attention to details with being able to murder plot important characters and then finding out what you need to do by interrogating their spirits/stealing their journals etc. really adds to the game.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Fallout wins. Fatality.

 

[Sothpaw]

Try playing a Technologist, it's first then that you get the full Arcanum Experience. It's quite amusing that most people who don't like Arcanum, play Harm spam.

If you're implying that I didn't like the game, don't, because I never said I didn't like the game.

I'm not sure how playing a tech character would make the game more fun. Combat is terrible in Arcanum. Harm removes that aspect of the game so I could enjoy the good writing and story. Also playing without teleportation would really suck.

 

[LizardWizard]

Arcanum's first half (if you're going tech only) is better then turns into a sloggy pile of poo. Fallout's were just fucking good times all the way through after the boring as shit tutorial areas.

 

[SionIV]

Try playing a Technologist, it's first then that you get the full Arcanum Experience. It's quite amusing that most people who don't like Arcanum, play Harm spam.

If you're implying that I didn't like the game, don't, because I never said I didn't like the game.

I'm not sure how playing a tech character would make the game more fun. Combat is terrible in Arcanum. Harm removes that aspect of the game so I could enjoy the good writing and story. Also playing without teleportation would really suck.

Arcanum has one of the best crafting systems in any RPG. You'll only ever get to use it if you're playing Technology. Combat might be frustrating at times, but it's still an RPG and improving your gear is part of it, once you craft a weapon, you'll notice that your character deals more damage and is improving. When you play with Harm, your character won't improve, ever. Pick harm at start and get 100% magic fast, voila the game is over.

It's like giving my character in Baldur's Gate 25 in all stats, 1000 HP and the best gear in the game.

 

[Sranchammer]

Behead those who insult Arcanum!

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm not sure how playing a tech character would make the game more fun. Combat is terrible in Arcanum. Harm removes that aspect of the game so I could enjoy the good writing and story. Also playing without teleportation would really suck.

Firearms combat in Arcanum, in turn-based mode, is no worse than Fallout's. Not great, but not the irredeemable mess it is otherwise.

But, and here's the crux of it, to succeed in firearms combat, you have to be constantly scrounging for junk to make bullets, schematics for guns, and components to make those guns; you have to be carefully building your character to have the skills and stats to build and use them; you have to be very careful with money; you have to craft, buy, find, or steal other tech that helps you survive; you have to maintain it; you have to pick who to fight and in which order... put another way, you need to think about what you're doing, make trade-offs, and engage with all the systems in the game. Play the game, not just click through to get to the kewl story bits.

And until very, very late in the game, you will be constantly feeling that dammit I just need that one more point in that one ability, or that one component, or that one schematic. That's the hunger that a really good game gives you.

The point where you actually cap someone is almost incidental -- but without it, the whole rest of it would have no point. That crafting system is gold -- no other game has done it quite as well -- and it's 100% ignorable if you're not playing tech.

Play magic, and it's Harm, Harm, Harm, and then you get a bunch of items that store up mana, and then it might as well be an adventure game. The magic system is only, like, half there. There are some neat ideas in it -- talking to the dead, for example -- but it's unfinished and has none of the complexity of tech, never even mind Harm-spam.

I really wish someone would do a proper spiritual successor to Arcanum, with tech + crafting that's as good, and magic that's as good as the tech. Hell, if they can't think of anything more original, just set up a parallel crafting system for magic, it's not like that hasn't been done. Give spells resource costs (cf. bullets) and non-consumable requirements (cf. guns), make you hunt for spells (cf. schematics), and Bob's your uncle.

 

[Serus]

Fallout 2. And Jagged Alliance 2 :p

 

[Carrion]

Firearms combat in Arcanum, in turn-based mode, is no worse than Fallout's.

It's been a while since I played it, but I'd say it is, as it's so simplistic and lacks some really basic things like reloading. Weapon damage is not as satisfying as in FO either (which, admittedly, is somewhat justified by the setting), and aimed slots feel like they were just slapped on as an afterthought. The crafting and gun porn do make up for it somewhat, and gunslingers are still the way to play Arcanum, but the actual combat system leaves a lot to be desired even when compared to Fallout.

 

[Prime Junta]

Okay fine, it is worse, but it's still good enough to get the job done, even if only barely, and a sight better than any of the other combat modes (melee wearing out weapons, magic being... magic, and throwing being almost as stupidly OP as magic.)

 

[Ovplain]

OG Fallout > all.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I voted Fallout because in many ways it is a better put together game, a better finished product.
But I've replayed Arcanum more times than Fallout.
Still, I love both fairly equally. And while Fallout was the first true RPG I played, fuck man, Arcanum did holy fuck to my mind. Loved it. Playing a charismatic half-orc gunslinger is the absolute most fun experience.
Hell, the difference between male and female is just awesome, gameplay wise.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

I'm not sure how playing a tech character would make the game more fun. Combat is terrible in Arcanum. Harm removes that aspect of the game so I could enjoy the good writing and story. Also playing without teleportation would really suck.

Firearms combat in Arcanum, in turn-based mode, is no worse than Fallout's. Not great, but not the irredeemable mess it is otherwise.

But, and here's the crux of it, to succeed in firearms combat, you have to be constantly scrounging for junk to make bullets, schematics for guns, and components to make those guns; you have to be carefully building your character to have the skills and stats to build and use them; you have to be very careful with money; you have to craft, buy, find, or steal other tech that helps you survive; you have to maintain it; you have to pick who to fight and in which order... put another way, you need to think about what you're doing, make trade-offs, and engage with all the systems in the game. Play the game, not just click through to get to the kewl story bits.

And until very, very late in the game, you will be constantly feeling that dammit I just need that one more point in that one ability, or that one component, or that one schematic. That's the hunger that a really good game gives you.

The point where you actually cap someone is almost incidental -- but without it, the whole rest of it would have no point. That crafting system is gold -- no other game has done it quite as well -- and it's 100% ignorable if you're not playing tech.

Play magic, and it's Harm, Harm, Harm, and then you get a bunch of items that store up mana, and then it might as well be an adventure game. The magic system is only, like, half there. There are some neat ideas in it -- talking to the dead, for example -- but it's unfinished and has none of the complexity of tech, never even mind Harm-spam.

I really wish someone would do a proper spiritual successor to Arcanum, with tech + crafting that's as good, and magic that's as good as the tech. Hell, if they can't think of anything more original, just set up a parallel crafting system for magic, it's not like that hasn't been done. Give spells resource costs (cf. bullets) and non-consumable requirements (cf. guns), make you hunt for spells (cf. schematics), and Bob's your uncle.

I've played Fallout but haven't played Arcanum. So I can't vote (or won't).

But this... post, you made. It penetrates me deep. I had to quote it and brofist it.

What you say reads as resource-management. It's always been a big part of my enjoyment in games.

And then there's combat tactics where you decide which spell/skill/item/action/etc to use, dependent on the cost of each and which is hte most cost effective given your situation and aims. Without it I can't enjoy the game either.

It's fundamentally resource-management. Assigning costs to actions and zeroing in on the least costly. The best games--for me at least--don't make this simple. Ideally you're "zeroing in" at all times, meaning things don't oftne repeat. For example, if you're repeatedly using a pistol and in a certain way then it will get boring faster because there's no "zeroing in".

I can't call this micromanagement because I enjoy it.

But how doesit compare to something like, oh, a racing game or Tetris. In a raicing game you're "zeroing in" on the best driving formula. Do you press right or left? Do you look for shortcuts? A good racing game has some drifting and cconsequences if you make bad moves. Once you master a course, it's time to move on because there's no "zeroing in". Tetris is aobut "zeroing in" on teh patterns of the blocks to get a high score. It's constant and never ending until the game is over.

 

[MWaser]

I'm not sure how playing a tech character would make the game more fun. Combat is terrible in Arcanum. Harm removes that aspect of the game so I could enjoy the good writing and story. Also playing without teleportation would really suck.

Firearms combat in Arcanum, in turn-based mode, is no worse than Fallout's. Not great, but not the irredeemable mess it is otherwise.

But, and here's the crux of it, to succeed in firearms combat, you have to be constantly scrounging for junk to make bullets, schematics for guns, and components to make those guns; you have to be carefully building your character to have the skills and stats to build and use them; you have to be very careful with money; you have to craft, buy, find, or steal other tech that helps you survive; you have to maintain it; you have to pick who to fight and in which order... put another way, you need to think about what you're doing, make trade-offs, and engage with all the systems in the game. Play the game, not just click through to get to the kewl story bits.

And until very, very late in the game, you will be constantly feeling that dammit I just need that one more point in that one ability, or that one component, or that one schematic. That's the hunger that a really good game gives you.

The point where you actually cap someone is almost incidental -- but without it, the whole rest of it would have no point. That crafting system is gold -- no other game has done it quite as well -- and it's 100% ignorable if you're not playing tech.

Play magic, and it's Harm, Harm, Harm, and then you get a bunch of items that store up mana, and then it might as well be an adventure game. The magic system is only, like, half there. There are some neat ideas in it -- talking to the dead, for example -- but it's unfinished and has none of the complexity of tech, never even mind Harm-spam.

I really wish someone would do a proper spiritual successor to Arcanum, with tech + crafting that's as good, and magic that's as good as the tech. Hell, if they can't think of anything more original, just set up a parallel crafting system for magic, it's not like that hasn't been done. Give spells resource costs (cf. bullets) and non-consumable requirements (cf. guns), make you hunt for spells (cf. schematics), and Bob's your uncle.

Damn, you summed up my thoughts about the crafting better than I could have done so myself. Wish I had the power to brofist yet (if I do idk how)

Although I do believe Magic has more to it than just harm spam (even though it is the only effective way to play full-mage), as it also has a considerable amount of utility and buff spells, it just completely fails at balancing the damage spells.

And same, I also had thoughts about adding a similar system for magic - something like alchemy/enchanting to go with the awesome crafting system. Some more scrounging for ingredients so that they're not so easily purchasable with maybe tiny buffs for items and better tier balancing could even potentially make dungeon crawling rewarding, and therefore less obnoxious.

However I do think Fallout's gunplay is a tad better. For one, there's more chances of actually using the terrain for your advantage in the fallout games. In Arcanum, for the most part, there is both no space to use the terrain for your advantage nor a reason to, as most enemies are melee and if you are ranged (and therefore best suited for terrain abuse) you just want to attack as soon as possible to make the most of your AP.

 

[Cock Magic]

Both games are good. I prefer Arcanum because of much more possibilities in character creation.

 

[Carrion]

Regarding resource management and firearms, I wish Fallout would've been closer to Arcanum in that regard. Having to really scrounge for ammo (think of the shotgun shells in The Road Warrior) and occasionally rely on more primitive weapons or non-violent solutions would've fit a post-apocalyptic setting really well and perhaps also made the close-combat skills more rewarding. Still, in FO you pretty much always had guns and ammo in abundance so that you could just kill everything with small guns from the start.

 

[Melcar]

Fallout. I never could finish Arcanum. I have to agree that the whole setting is rather cool and I do like it more than FO's world, but I just can never get myself to finish the game.

 

[Prime Junta]

I haven't finished it either. Nor FONV for that matter. So fucking what, they're sandbox games.

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

I enjoyed playing dumbass ogre warrior in arcanum a lot more than playing a dumbass in fallout/fallout 2.

 

[noisenerd]

Fallout, no contest. Arcanum just didn't draw me in like FO.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Can you fuck a sheep in Fallout?

Checkmate.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

To be honest, the guns in Arcanum are pretty poorly done. No clips/reloading and only one type of bullets, for everything from a flintlock pistol to an elephant gun, even ancient Vendigroth guns use the same ammunition. Also most of the guns are high speed peashooters, FFS, what they were smoking.

IMO, combat-wise you're better of playing a Necro Black/Fire/Force mage (if you have extra character points then might as well dump them into STR and Melee/Dodge to make combat even more of a joke) OR a tiny weeny halfling with max DEX, full Melee/Backstab and Stun/Temporal/Prowling (which is admittedly pretty shitty until you get the Master training and suddenly become a god of stealth that can disappear right in the middle of a battle). Just buy a dagger with highest speed (e.g. Dagger of Speed), disregard its base damage and start backstabbing unaware targets (stunned or can't see you prowling), each of your 5 STR halfling stabs will be resulting in 100+ points of damage and bodies exploding. Be sure not to suffer a critical miss though, it's an instant seppuku, lol.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Some mechanics for the backstab skill in Arcanum.

As you might be aware, under the hood each of your skills goes from 0 to 20, every time you put a character point into a skill you buy 4 ranks (4/20 = 1/5). Now, when you attack somebody from behind, your backstab rank is added to the hit, say you put 2 CPs (= 8 ranks) in backstab, so you'll do 8 points more damage. Not much, huh? Now, when backstabbing an unaware target (stunned or can't see you prowling) your backstab rank x5 is added to the hit, which is 100 at the full skill. And with just the apprentice training you're also bypassing their armor/DR. You can kill Stringy Pete with just a few stabs as a measly halfling with 5 STR, and with halfling's crazy max DEX you can kill the whole undead pirate crew in a single turn, solo.

The master training in backstab allows for crazy criticals doing even more damage, but make sure to master melee first so you never do a critical miss and disembowel yourself.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Arcanum was a mixed bag for me, the setting, the writing, the characters were great, but it lost quality as you went and by the mid late game it became a boring frustrating experience.

Fallout on the other hand was much more enjoyable from start to end.