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Any jrpgs i should play?

tet666

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Show me one fucking western ARPG even nearing the combat design of the Souls series.

Fucking braindead Diablo and it's derivatives are is all the west has for it's portfolio.

Action style combat and character development are the main characteristics of those games, which is how we define (sub) genres and not how complex the combat system is, the country of origin or anything else you retards might think of.
 
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Damned Registrations

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Any other games with dungeons like Nocturne (besides LoT)? I've been kind of turned off the SMT/Persona franchise for pretty much this exact reason, and various wizardry clones seem all over the map in dungeon quality.
 

Grampy_Bone

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Any other games with dungeons like Nocturne (besides LoT)? I've been kind of turned off the SMT/Persona franchise for pretty much this exact reason, and various wizardry clones seem all over the map in dungeon quality.

Etrian Odyssey. Not that I like those very much, but the map design is stellar.
 

Ash

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Show me one fucking western ARPG even nearing the combat design of the Souls series.

Fucking braindead Diablo and it's derivatives are is all the west has for it's portfolio.

Not to mention Diablo, Blade: Severance of Darkness, Gothic and the like came after the Japanese games that share those ARPG design traits.

Dark Souls is probably seen as western by chumps because it has a Dark Gothic art style in a European-inspired setting, yet it's a style that plenty old school JP games had: Kings Field, Castlevania: SotN, Devil May Cry 1 etc and doesn't suddenly mean it's a "western RPG" just because it's not anime. Heck even Final Fantasy's locations are often heavily inspired by old time European locales. See: Treno, Kalm, Ultimacia's Castle etc.

Swap Dark Souls art style for heavy animu and I bet you'll never see anyone contest whether it is JRPG or not. Yet when a game has a more mature style, alongside it being a great game, the ignorant try to claim it as their own. Sorry, but Souls features Japanese-born gameplay design through and through.

Edit: well, ignoring the occassional DnD inspirations, obviously. But every RPG and JRPG has those.
 
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Grampy_Bone

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That's a good point. There's probably more euro-action-RPGs than American. The west has gone firmly into the Diablo-clickfest style, MMO auto-attacking, or FPS-RPGs.

The only two that come to mind are Darksiders 2 and Kingdoms of Amalur, both of which are aping God of War combat (which was a Devil May Cry knock-off). The Elder scrolls games are action-RPGs but the combat is about as far from souls-like as you can get.
 

tet666

Augur
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Messages
396
Show me one fucking western ARPG even nearing the combat design of the Souls series.

Fucking braindead Diablo and it's derivatives are is all the west has for it's portfolio.

Not to mention Diablo, Blade: Severance of Darkness, Gothic and the like came after the Japanese games that share those ARPG design traits.

Dark Souls is probably seen as western by chumps because it has a Dark Gothic art style in a European-inspired setting, yet it's a style that plenty old school JP games had: Kings Field, Castlevania: SotN, Devil May Cry 1 etc and doesn't suddenly mean it's a "western RPG" just because it's not anime. Heck even Final Fantasy's locations are often heavily inspired by old time European locales. See: Treno, Kalm, Ultimacia's Castle etc.

Swap Dark Souls art style for heavy animu and I bet you'll never see anyone contest whether it is JRPG or not. Yet when a game has a more mature style, alongside it being a great game, the ignorant try to claim it as their own. Sorry, but Souls features Japanese-born gameplay design through and through.

Edit: well, ignoring the occassional DnD inspirations, obviously. But every RPG and JRPG has those.


Dark Souls is clearly inspired by western games and literature .The whole concept started in King's Field, which was at the beginning just a very lame and dumbed down Ultima Underworld clone. But with each entry it got better and the whole world and it's style has gotten more unique. Dark Souls is the culmination of this. You can still clearly see what influenced it, but the source material has been digested and turned into something very different and unique, just like the JRPG genre was born from Ultima and Wizardry clones or do you deny that as well?
 

Grampy_Bone

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Dark Souls is clearly inspired by western games and literature .The whole concept started in King's Field, which was at the beginning just a very lame and dumbed down Ultima Underworld clone. But with each entry it got better and the whole world and it's style has gotten more unique. Dark Souls is the culmination of this. You can still clearly see what influenced it, but the source material has been digested and turned into something very different and unique, just like the JRPG genre was born from Ultima and Wizardry clones or do you deny that as well?

By that argument though there's no such thing as a JRPG, since they're all derived from western games. We're comparing Dark Souls to its contemporaries though, and there's nothing in the west like it.
 

tet666

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Dark Souls is clearly inspired by western games and literature .The whole concept started in King's Field, which was at the beginning just a very lame and dumbed down Ultima Underworld clone. But with each entry it got better and the whole world and it's style has gotten more unique. Dark Souls is the culmination of this. You can still clearly see what influenced it, but the source material has been digested and turned into something very different and unique, just like the JRPG genre was born from Ultima and Wizardry clones or do you deny that as well?

By that argument though there's no such thing as a JRPG, since they're all derived from western games. We're comparing Dark Souls to its contemporaries though, and there's nothing in the west like it.

Oh rly?
http://store.steampowered.com/curator/11526504-Games-Like-Dark-Souls/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/265300/Lords_Of_The_Fallen/

Seems like there are a few, "souls like" seems to be on the road to become a new action rpg sub genre, which as i explained bevore is how sub genres are born they evolve naturally from their parent genre.

Genres are just short labels we give to entertainment media so ppl know what to expect from it after all, so new genres are born all the time.
 
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tet666

Augur
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Dark Souls is clearly inspired by western games and literature
Wouldn't that make most CRPGs 'EuroRPGs' despite being made in California?

Lol no it simply makes them RPGs since their main focus is on role playing, seriously i didn't say it's a western made RPG i said it's an Action RPG influenced by western design, i don't even get what's so hard to comprehend, a genre is defined by it's main characteristics: if i want to watch something funny i go for "comedy", if i want to watch something sad i go for "drama" you don't seem to get those wrong, games are just the same.
 
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Grampy_Bone

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Oh rly?
http://store.steampowered.com/curator/11526504-Games-Like-Dark-Souls/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/265300/Lords_Of_The_Fallen/

Seems like there are a few, "souls like" seems to be on the road to become a new action rpg sub genre, which as i explained bevore is how sub genres are born they evolve naturally from their parent genre.

Genres are just short labels we give to entertainment media so ppl know what to expect from it after all, so new genres are born all the time.

The discussion was whether Dark Souls was more of a western-style game than a JRPG, because it supposedly was copying more western features than eastern. But as you clearly show here, we don't see Dark Souls copying western devs, we see western devs copying Dark Souls. So "Souls-like" games are a JRPG subgenre. QED.
 

Delterius

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Lol no it simply makes them RPGs since their main focus is on role playing, seriously i didn't say it's a western made RPG i said it's an Action RPG influenced by western design
I'm sorry to say but you've wandered into an ongoing debate and said something obvious to all parties involved, such that we believed you were taking an actually relevant position.
 

tet666

Augur
Joined
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Messages
396
Oh rly?
http://store.steampowered.com/curator/11526504-Games-Like-Dark-Souls/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/265300/Lords_Of_The_Fallen/

Seems like there are a few, "souls like" seems to be on the road to become a new action rpg sub genre, which as i explained bevore is how sub genres are born they evolve naturally from their parent genre.

Genres are just short labels we give to entertainment media so ppl know what to expect from it after all, so new genres are born all the time.

The discussion was whether Dark Souls was more of a western-style game than a JRPG, because it supposedly was copying more western features than eastern. But as you clearly show here, we don't see Dark Souls copying western devs, we see western devs copying Dark Souls. So "Souls-like" games are a JRPG subgenre. QED.

No that's just how genres evolve in to sub genres, it's a good example and you still don't get that JRPG is it's own distinct sub genre, while Dark Souls evolved on it's own from From's attempts to make western style action RPGs starting from King's Field.
I'm also tired of explaining the same shit over and over.
Extra Credits explained the genre definitions pretty well so just watch that if you are really interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_rvM6hubs8
 
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Delterius

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while Dark Souls evolved on it's own from From's attempts to make western style

Just like how Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are a japanese take on Wizardry?

Now you get it they took Wizardry and Ultima and made their own spin on it, that's how new stuff is always born.
Which makes JRPGs - such as Disgaea, SMT, Final Fantasy, Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma - a japanese take on a global industry that was born in the west. That's just how stuff is always born.
 

Ash

Arcane
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Dark Souls is clearly inspired by western games and literature .The whole concept started in King's Field, which was at the beginning just a very lame and dumbed down Ultima Underworld clone.

Well, this is almost certainly true on some level. I'll give you that. Yet Dark Souls is rather a lot different from Underworld in so many ways.

Anyhow, not an WRPG. Minimal story and minimal interaction with it, not a great deal of player agency overall, extensive challenge focus, most of these are antithetical of the WRPG and things more commonly associated with the JRPG and Japanese design in general. Especially the challenge focus of the game, which is one of the primary draws of Souls.

There's more parallels between the principles of Dark Souls with games like Kings Field, Castlevania: SotN, Devil May Cry etc than there is Gothic, Underworld or any other WRPG.
All JRPGs being derivative of WRPG originally is no argument because then the concept of JRPG to begin with is invalid. //yeah what grampy said.
 
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IPFreely

Educated
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Messages
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If you like old dungeon crawlers, definitely play the Etrian Odyssey games. They are great.
 

tet666

Augur
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
396
Dark Souls is clearly inspired by western games and literature .The whole concept started in King's Field, which was at the beginning just a very lame and dumbed down Ultima Underworld clone.

All JRPGs being derivative of WRPG originally is no argument because then the concept of JRPG to begin with is invalid. //yeah what grampy said.

No it doesn't, you guys just simply don't seem to understand what genres and sub genres are and how they come to be, which is a bit surprising considering it's not particularly hard to understand and i tried to explain the concept multiple times.
 
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IPFreely

Educated
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Messages
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Dark Souls is clearly inspired by western games and literature .The whole concept started in King's Field, which was at the beginning just a very lame and dumbed down Ultima Underworld clone.

All JRPGs being derivative of WRPG originally is no argument because then the concept of JRPG to begin with is invalid. //yeah what grampy said.

No it doesn't, you guys just simply don't seem to understand what genres and sub genres are and how they come to be, which is a bit surprising considering it's not particularly hard to understand and i tried to explain the concept multiple times.

This whole conversation is worthy of being on Neogaf. You faggots.

Also, buy a 3DS, you cheap fuck. What are you, Jewish?
 

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