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Any good challenging jrpgs?

Arthandas

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Apr 21, 2015
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1. I don't care about story/dialogs, only pure gameplay.
2. Anything that's playable on PC (natively or via emulators).
3. The harder the better (I want something ultra hard like my dick while watching hentai)
4. Turn-based only.
5. No FF, Personas, Dark Souls or blobbers/dungeon crawlers
 
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J1M

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Lufia 2 is a good game.

Not sure what qualifies as difficult in a JRPG, lol.
 

Emmanuel2

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  • Unlimited SaGa - massive hit or miss. It's one of the best in the series IMHO.
  • The Last Remnant
  • Elminage series
  • Any of the Shiren is the closest we can get from Japan that gets to coffeebreak Roguelike difficulty. All the other Mystery Dungeons are piss easy.
  • Phantasy Star I and II
  • SMT III and Strange Journey
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
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Labyrinth of Touhou has some of the hardest and most tactical turn-based combat in any RPG (not just J-), so if you find it boring, not sure what else to recommend tbh.

Maybe try Telepath Tactics if you're looking for a Strategy RPG. (It is technically a JRPG I guess.)
 

Deleted Member 16721

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You find Elminage boring but what do you expect a punishingly difficult gameplay RPG to be? In terms of modern JRPGs that are challenging you're not going to find many more challenging than Elminage, IMO.

The Last Remnant is good, challenging at times (much easier than Elminage overall) and has more story and stuff. I'd recommend it. Has some good bits with recruiting characters and creating combat teams, as well as some odd mechanics that aren't really explicitly explained but still a bit interesting, like party members asking you for certain gear they want to use rather than being able to directly equip them, giving them advice on what skills they should focus on, etc. It's cool.
 
Repressed Homosexual
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The Last Remnant is just repetitive, weird and tedious.

The Saga formula works with a small party and exploration and fast battles, but not with what they tried to achieve with that. Plus much of the content is recycled and generic to pad out the length.

I recommend Siralim 2.
 
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Siveon

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The Fire Emblem series is generally pretty difficult, aside from the ones where you can grind (Sacred Stones, Awakening, Fates). I say you should start at 7, work your way up, and go back down to the SNES games.

Most of the SMT games are at least slightly challenging (also technically not Persona).

Uh, Elona would be another Japanese roguelike with difficulty. But it's so open and crazy I find it hard to call it "challenging" per se.

King's Field. :positive:

The Last Remnant is just repetitive, weird and tedious.
I recommend Siralim 2.

Funny, the way you described The Last Remnant is the way a few people described Siralim. Haven't played either, I just thought the coincidence was humorous.
 

Arthandas

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Apr 21, 2015
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  • Unlimited SaGa - massive hit or miss. It's one of the best in the series IMHO.
  • The Last Remnant
  • Elminage series
  • Any of the Shiren is the closest we can get from Japan that gets to coffeebreak Roguelike difficulty. All the other Mystery Dungeons are piss easy.
  • Phantasy Star I and II
  • SMT III and Strange Journey
SaGa and Phantasy Star look interesting. PS seems a bit basic but I'll check it out, thanks!

Labyrinth of Touhou has some of the hardest and most tactical turn-based combat in any RPG (not just J-), so if you find it boring, not sure what else to recommend tbh.
I find it boring because it's basically combat and nothing else. The presentation is very basic which doesn't add to the experience.

You find Elminage boring but what do you expect a punishingly difficult gameplay RPG to be? In terms of modern JRPGs that are challenging you're not going to find many more challenging than Elminage, IMO.
I find it boring for the same reason as Labyrinth of Touhou and to be honest I don't even consider those games to be jrpgs. I have LR on Steam and tolerating this game for 1 hour is an achievement.

As for what I consider to be a punishingly difficult rpg, the problem is I can't give a proper example because I don't seem to recall many truly difficult rpg I've played. From the top of my head only ADOM and Original Sin on highest ironman difficulty comes to mind. That's why I'm looking into jrpgs now since apart from FF and some other mainstream titles I stuck to crpgs for as long as I remember.

I recommend Siralim 2.
Thanks, I checked it on Steam and now my eyes won't stop bleeding.
 

Arthandas

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Damned Registrations

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Inindo is basically impossible to finish without grinding for like 20 hours before the final boss. So there's that.

Lufia 2 is generally quite easy, but the ancient cave is a roguelike sub-game in it that is honestly pretty brutal (especially if you don't glitch the boss). There's a FF5 hack that does the same thing more or less, except it includes more bosses and some guaranteed drops, I've never made it too far in that.

Also LoT has more story in it than ADOM, at the very least. Stupid story, but story nonetheless. Honestly seems more like you're just picky about the graphics.
 

Machocruz

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Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne is the best meeting of difficulty and overall quality you're going to get in JPRGs.
 

Gunnar

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Inindo is basically impossible to finish without grinding for like 20 hours before the final boss. So there's that.

What? This isn't true. There are two possible final bosses depending on which story path the game takes (it's random once you leave the first dungeon). The 'mystical' path has a very easy end boss, whereas the 'military' path end boss is much more difficult. You absolutely do not need to grind for 20 hours to beat him, it just requires the proper party and items.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. Probably one of the most challenging SRPG/JRPGs out there. Keeping everyone alive (permadeath!) is tough or even impossible on a first run.
 

felipepepe

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What I meant is I don't care if story is good or bad because we're talking about games, not books, but it definitely should be included. If an rpg has a good story I consider it just a bonus, not a prerequisite.
If you want a real challenge then start by being consistent. Both Touhou and Elminage HAVE stories, much more than something like Wizardry I, Dungeon Master, etc. if you're "bored" by them then either you WANT a cliche story to hold your hand and distract you from all that horrible combat or you're being picky about something else you're ashamed of admitting.

Regardless, seems like you should just stop being edgy and get FFVI with the Eviltype patch.
 
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Self-Ejected

aweigh

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While I already loathe Arthandas and his opinions about gameplay and story make me want to punch him, I'll go ahead and be civil and second the recommendation someone made of Inindo: Way of the Ninja.

Not because it's the best thing ever, (it is), but because he is obviously a type of storyfag (not that there's anything wrong with that) and has already dismissed many of the games I would recommend.
 

Damned Registrations

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Inindo is basically impossible to finish without grinding for like 20 hours before the final boss. So there's that.

What? This isn't true. There are two possible final bosses depending on which story path the game takes (it's random once you leave the first dungeon). The 'mystical' path has a very easy end boss, whereas the 'military' path end boss is much more difficult. You absolutely do not need to grind for 20 hours to beat him, it just requires the proper party and items.
Well I didn't follow any kind of walkthrough or anything, but I very clearly remember the game going from being generally pretty easy to insanely difficult in the final dungeon. The sub bosses were difficult to beat to begin with, and the end boss was so insane I ended up abusing save states on a turn by turn basis to fight him and it still took like half an hour because he was so likely to just one shot anything and almost never missed. At that point in the game it already took like 20+ encounters to gain one level and I'd have needed like 10 more levels to make any real difference in survivability. I don't know what the definition of a 'proper' party or items would be, but I'm guessing it involves some pure bullshit.

Though this did remind me of another grindy as fuck game: Seventh Saga. Pretty cool concept overall, definitely worth a look. I think it's not actually too bad on the grind either depending on the characters you use, but it can be pretty crazy on some of them trying to get over the OHKO thresholds of bosses.
 

Gunnar

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Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
819
Inindo is basically impossible to finish without grinding for like 20 hours before the final boss. So there's that.

What? This isn't true. There are two possible final bosses depending on which story path the game takes (it's random once you leave the first dungeon). The 'mystical' path has a very easy end boss, whereas the 'military' path end boss is much more difficult. You absolutely do not need to grind for 20 hours to beat him, it just requires the proper party and items.
Well I didn't follow any kind of walkthrough or anything, but I very clearly remember the game going from being generally pretty easy to insanely difficult in the final dungeon. The sub bosses were difficult to beat to begin with, and the end boss was so insane I ended up abusing save states on a turn by turn basis to fight him and it still took like half an hour because he was so likely to just one shot anything and almost never missed. At that point in the game it already took like 20+ encounters to gain one level and I'd have needed like 10 more levels to make any real difference in survivability. I don't know what the definition of a 'proper' party or items would be, but I'm guessing it involves some pure bullshit.

Though this did remind me of another grindy as fuck game: Seventh Saga. Pretty cool concept overall, definitely worth a look. I think it's not actually too bad on the grind either depending on the characters you use, but it can be pretty crazy on some of them trying to get over the OHKO thresholds of bosses.

I used Momochi (Iga) and Takei (Sage), beat both ending boss types on cartridge :obviously:

Seventh Saga, I believe had a Japanese and Western version and the Western version was bugged so that you got fewer stats on levelup, so it turned into a nightmare grindfest. Good game though, from what I remember the OP character was Valsu, because he gets the spell Elixer which restores all HP and MP, and you can keep spamming it.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
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Oct 26, 2014
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Crait
The Phantasy Stars aren't challenging RPGs.

To me it sounds like you are best off with one of the Wizardry clones like Etrian Odyssey.

I've heard about Lufia 2's Ancient Cave; it's legendary for a JRPG challenge.

IDK, I found Dragon Warrior 3 quite difficult; certainly the most difficult NES rpg I remember (not counting PC conversions like Wizardry, M&M1 and Pool of Radiance). Beating it was almost (but not quite) as satisfying as beating an old school arcade game like 1943.

Oh and Shining Force 2 actually has a super nightmare difficulty that's supposed to be very. very. difficult.

Still, JRPGs aren't known for insane difficulty. You probably wont find a JRPG as challenging as say, Wiz 7.

One more RPG I'd recommend is Skies of Arcadia. It's not the most difficult, but if you don't use a walkthrough, it should be challenging enough.

UPDATE:
http://www.insanedifficulty.com/board/index.php?/files/category/1-mods/
 
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jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,420
JRPGS are similar to japanese open world games in that they are never designed crazy, too hard. They are meant to sell well domestically and internationally not hardcore niche gamers. Google SRPGS for psp/ps1/ps2 etc. They all tend to be the difficult turnbased JRPGS.

Try out front mission 4 that one personally made me rage in how bullshit some mission were.
 
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