Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Game News Animation reel from cancelled Aliens: Crucible RPG discovered on Vimeo

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Infinitron, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Anthony Davis Developer

    Anthony Davis
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,345
    Location:
    California
    Click here and disable ads!
    I've talked about this game before...

    There is a lot of could-ofs, should-ofs, and all that.

    The problem with making successful horror games with the Aliens franchise is that the Aliens have been revealed... a lot. There is no mystery with them anymore. After 4 movies, countless comics and novels, countless video games - where the Alien and Alien variants have been killed multiple times, you have to tread new ground if you want to do something original. The horror with the Aliens no longer lies in the unknown, so we were going for the environment.

    For example, the second or third time you watch Alien, it is no longer scary. My second playthrough of Amnesia was easy and scare-free.

    NOT COUNTING JUMP SCARES! Jump scares are not true horror, though they can be used to effectively alter the tension temporarily.

    Josh did have some ideas though on how to add horror and tension, and we had several scenarios into the game. Most of us were or had played SS2, Amnesia, and Call of Cthulu, but horror was not the goal of the game, survival was.

    This was a game of limited resources and perma-death. If a party member got face-hugged, your choices were to mercy kill them, put them in a sleeper and wake them sparingly if you need them, or let them pop - but the bottom line was that once they got impregnated they had an expiration date.

    As for the Alien variations, there are things that are simply expected by publishers and the fan base. The xenomporph variations also have a history in the aliens universe anyway. The first thing Josh and the concept artists did was to create the lifeforms the xenos would impregnate first. We also used some insect themes for the various xeno roles, from drones and scouts, to soldiers and queens. As covered in countless comics, novels, and films, the xenos take traits from their host, the idea being it would better enable them to survive in a dangerous habitat. One of the big mysteries Josh and the writers were exploring was what the caldera and how were the engineers (space jockeys) doing with the xenos.

    The goal was not to kill all the bugs, but to simply escape from the caldera where you were trapped. Don't get me wrong, there was still a lot of killing of both xenos and humans in the game. Combat was real time - but we had a companion wheel to context system so that you could issue commands to your squadmates. For example, you could highlight a door with your reticule, and then based on what your squard could do, it would show you your options, like weld door, open door, or if you had a bomb, plant bomb on door.

    As far as tech goes, we were using an earlier version of Onyx - which would later be used to create DS3. Our tech was stable, but we had pipeline issues to resolve but by milestone 25 or so were in pretty good shape.

    Anyway, it is what it is at this point.
    Sceptic, Suchy, DwarvenFood and 15 others Brofist this.
    ^ Top  
  2. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    34,767
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    I hope you don't mind if I link to that post in the new newspost, Anthony.
    DwarvenFood Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  3. bonescraper Arcane Patron

    bonescraper
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,202
    Location:
    Boat, in the middle of Potatoland
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands
    Again, most of the comics are shit and hardly consistent with the canon. If you look at xeno variations in the movies, you'll see they don't change their appearance drastically. Their behavior might be slightly different, but not their general external appearance. It's like people are constantly trying to outdo Geiger and Scott by adding fins, horns and other retarded crap to one of the scariest monsters in movie history, thinking they can do better.

    Oh, and fans actually hate this kind of crap. Many people hate the way aliens look in the AvP movies. Hell, some even think Cameron went too far already.
    almondblight Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  4. Anthony Davis Developer

    Anthony Davis
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,345
    Location:
    California

    I'm not sure who speaks for the fans...

    Is it the purists on forums, or is it the people buying all the comics and novels?
    ^ Top  
  5. bonescraper Arcane Patron

    bonescraper
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,202
    Location:
    Boat, in the middle of Potatoland
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands
    They're one and the same? Hell, i used to own a big pile of Alien/Predator related comics. That doesn't mean they're good. It's just fanboy/collector mentality.

    Anyway, that game looks fucking bad. It's just another alien shooter, but with bad shooting mechanics. Even Alpha Protocol looks more engaging than that. And looks like you guys just wanted to play this safe, making another Cameron-esque action aliens product, utilizing the worst ideas found in the comics and other media. Is this the same Obsidian that made KotOR 2?
    ^ Top  
  6. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    34,767
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Problem: KOTOR2 "looks fucking bad" also. Watch some gameplay videos of it with combat. It'll look like shit to you.

    ^ Top  
  7. Anthony Davis Developer

    Anthony Davis
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,345
    Location:
    California
    Appreciate the input!

    EDIT: That was more sarcastic then I intended. My not so subtle point was that the game no longer exists, this footage is 4 or 5 years old, the game wasnt even in Alpha yet... aaaaaaand whocares.
    l3loodAngel, SuicideBunny, Jaesun and 2 others Brofist this.
    ^ Top  
  8. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,698
    Location:
    Terra da Garoa
    Infinibro, you're comparing a RTWP RPG with a shooter...
    Dexter Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  9. Naked Ninja Arbiter

    Naked Ninja
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    South Africa
    Sounds really cool. And that gameplay footage looked great.

    Any chance of the project being resurrected at this point?
    ^ Top  
  10. bonescraper Arcane Patron

    bonescraper
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,202
    Location:
    Boat, in the middle of Potatoland
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands
    This. I actually loved how lightsaber duels looked in KotOR. Yes, there were guns, but i never bothered with them. And i never had to.

    You should be comparing Aliens with Alpha Protocol instead Infinitron :D
    ^ Top  
  11. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    34,767
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    It's a console RPG of the same general type. Don't tell me you looked at that KOTOR2 video and thought "this game is monocled" :obviously:

    Third person console RPGs tend to look kind of lame if you're spectating. They play better than they look.

    But anyway, like Anthony said, this argument is dumb since the game was unfinished.
    ^ Top  
  12. Zeus Liturgist

    Zeus
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,523
    I don't get this argument. There's no mystery to zombies, either. And yet zombie horror movies and games are a success.
    boobio Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  13. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    34,767
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    ...and they also focus on survival more than horror. Way to prove the man's argument.
    SuicideBunny Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  14. bonescraper Arcane Patron

    bonescraper
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,202
    Location:
    Boat, in the middle of Potatoland
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands
    Jesus. I mentioned KotOR 2 because it was breaking Star Wars clichés. Not because it looks amazing :roll:
    ^ Top  
  15. IDtenT Contact me for a good time Patron

    IDtenT
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,541
    Location:
    South Africa
    Divinity: Original Sin
    Could work wonders as a multi-player game. Doesn't need to be this setting, as any thriller/mystery/horror will do. Have team members being killed off one by one as they make mistakes while wading their way through the game.
    ^ Top  
  16. Zeus Liturgist

    Zeus
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,523
    The original Night of the Living Dead is packed with endless scenes of people barricading themselves inside a house. Survival has been there since the beginning of the modern zombie film. It's no more a part of them now than it was back then.
    ^ Top  
  17. LundB Mistakes were made.

    LundB
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,499
    People knew what sharks looked like back in '75, but Jaws still worked. Not purely a horror film, but I think the comparison still stands.
    Dexter, Outlander, almondblight and 3 others Brofist this.
    ^ Top  
  18. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    34,767
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    But you're comparing KOTOR2 to a game that you know about only from how its pre-alpha version looked like.

    I'm talking about games, not movies.
    ^ Top  
  19. Zeus Liturgist

    Zeus
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,523
    Exactly. Fear of the unknown is a vital part of horror. But we know how humans work, that doesn't mean Silence of the Lambs didn't have effective atmosphere and tension.

    This attitude is just so self-defeating.
    boobio Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  20. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,698
    Location:
    Terra da Garoa
    Humans are also quite know, and yet provide some nice horror movies...

    EDIT:Ninja'ed by a god.
    Zeus Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  21. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    34,767
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Horror games have a different dynamic than horror movies, since the fact that the player is in control removes that feeling of paralyzed helplessness you get from being a passive viewer of a movie.

    Many classic horror games gave you clumsy controls on purpose to emulate that feeling. But I thought we didn't like CINEMATIC games on the Codex.
    ^ Top  
  22. Zeus Liturgist

    Zeus
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,523
    But he's not. He said the Aliens movies weren't scary the third time around. I felt the need to point out that thirty years after the original Night of the Living Dead, people still manage to make effective zombie flicks, long after the mystery has gone.

    And as for Resident Evil being about "survival," that's just a silly word pulled from the air by Capcom's Japanese PR department.

    Except for Interactive Fiction and graphic adventures, it's safe to say all horror games involve not letting monsters get close enough to touch you. Which makes them no different than all the horror movies out there about people trying to keep zombies/monsters/serial killers from killing them. Survival and horror go hand in hand.
    Darth Roxor Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  23. Zeus Liturgist

    Zeus
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,523
    What does this have to do with a horror game based specifically on the Aliens franchise not working?
    ^ Top  
  24. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    34,767
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Heh, if that's how you want to define "horror", then sure.
    ^ Top  
  25. LundB Mistakes were made.

    LundB
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,499
    True or not, that has nothing to do with the claim that 'aliens have been revealed so they can't be good monsters for a horror game'.

    Even ignoring that, I'd argue that the aliens are LESS crippled as a monster in game format than in film. In a movie, you might think 'ehhh, I've seen these fuckers gunned down by the thousands, protag's just a pussy if they can't deal w/ it', while in a game it's more along the lines of 'oh fuck this thing has so many ways to kill me, it's dark, and I can only hope I see it before it sees me'. It all comes down to what situation the game puts you in, and how it presents the alien.

    Meaning, at the very least not like this: [​IMG]
    Zeus Brofists this.
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above links helps us pay the hosting bills)